Caufield vs Pinto

Discussion in 'Polls - (hockey-related only)' started by Sensfourlife, May 12, 2021.

?

Take going forward?

  1. Caulfield

    72.0%
  2. Pinto

    28.0%
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  1. jbeck5 Registered User

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    Pinto is a 2nd/3rd line center RIGHT NOW in his rookie season. How do you figure he doesn't have room to improve?
     
  2. trentmccleary Registered User

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    In the last 10 full 82 game seasons, 1 player per year scored 50 goals. That player isn't going to be Cole Caufield.
     
  3. Bulis hit Registered User

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    It's easier for players to shine at the end of lost seasons when there is no pressure. Pinto looked good in his stint and I think he will be a valuable player, but it's not easy to extrapolate his level of play to the future.

    Same can be said about Caufield, of course, but pedigree throughout the years tell a different story for these 2 kids. It will be played on the ice and the future is still uncertain, but Caufield is still ahead for now.
     
  4. jbeck5 Registered User

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    Pedigree throughout the years tells a different story?

    Stop acting like these guys were more than a single individual ranking apart in college. One wasn't several players ahead. These guys were pretty much neck and neck coming to the NHL. As close as 2 college players could be in terms of value.
     
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  5. Sting Registered User

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    I'd say your guarantee that Caufield is a 50 goal scorer in the NHL is roughly 50x more unlikely than Pinto resembling Bergeron's playstyle.
     
  6. Kudo Shinichi Registered User

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    Caufield had one of the best u20 college season in the past 20 years. The hobey baker voting was likely unanimous for Caufield.

    Caufield is on the same tier of prospects as Zegras and Byfield. Pinto is not.
     
  7. 42 Registered User

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    Based on 14 NHL games? He has room to improve and he has room to get worse. Based on the pre NHL stats of Caufield and Pinto, they are not even in the same league.
     
  8. SpezDispenser Registered User

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    Holy cow, Canadiens fans apparently love to overrate their prospects. You'd think this was the next coming of The Great One.
     
  9. Kim Kitsuragi Registered User

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    Haha please. They were not 'neck and neck'. Let's not kid ourselves, Caufield ran away with the Hobey. Just because Pinto was a finalist doesn't put him in the same tier.

    GPGAP
    Caufield31302252
    Pinto28151732
    Caufield was 1st on his team in points, Pinto was 3rd. No amount of difference in two-way play makes up for that scoring differential.

    "neck and neck" :laugh:
     
  10. Xspyrit Registered User

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    Yes and my stylistic comparison of Caufield to DeBrincat also makes sense

    Caufield will become a % of DeBrincat and Pinto will become a % of Bergeron. Each team fans hope they'll get as close to 100% as possible but in the real world, it's far from a garantee

    Alex DeBrincat is exactly 3 years older than Caufield and has already scored 119 NHL goals... I think Habs fans should be ectastic if Caufield approaches that level.

    There's a world of difference with "Pinto likely tops out as a fringe 2nd liner"

    That's the definition of Chris Tierney (before this season) and Pinto is probably already better.

    That's really not what I thought when watching the WJC

    By the way, did you watch Pinto at the 2020 WJC? He was excellent while younger.

    That's how casual hockey fans would look at it. There's not just stats and stats are also contextual.

    So what about WJC stats then? Caufield, 3 goals, 7 pts in 12 games. Pinto 4 goals, 7 pts in 5 games. Just missed the cut by a few weeks to be eligible for a 2nd WJC

    Caufield should be more compared to the Sens best goal scorer going forward. Problem is we don't know yet if it's going to be Tkachuk, Norris, Stutzle, or even Batherson or Sokolov.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2021
  11. SpezDispenser Registered User

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    How odd then, that Pinto has a better points per game average than Caufield at the NHL level so far.

    I should note that I actually think Caufield will be the better goal-scorer and thus, worth more to his respective team, but it doesn't impress me in the least to hear how amazing Caufield is going to be based on university stats. Let's see the little guy do it at the NHL level consistently first.

    And it further bugs me after reading these replies that I have no choice other than to cheer for Montreal in Round 1
     
  12. Kudo Shinichi Registered User

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    WJC is just a small sample size. The 79 games total he played in college, ahl, and nhl is far more indicative of the kind of player he is than the 12 WJC games he played.

    Heck, he scored more goals and looked better in his 10 nhl games than in the 7 wjc games he played earlier this year.

    Caufield is one of the most skilled prospects out there. Caufield was easily a top 10 talent in his draft, but he dropped because of size concern. So far, his size has not been an issue in the nhl.
     
  13. Leaves34 Registered User

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    When stats that show Pinto has good production:
    “That’s a small sample size”

    Then he goes and says “Caufield’s games in the AHL and NHL are more indicative of the kind of player he is”

    Jeez buddy make up your mind
     
  14. Kudo Shinichi Registered User

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    You realize I said the 79 games combined he played in college, ahl, and nhl? That's not a small sample size.
     
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  15. MrCraigAnderson Boucher Jr

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    Both are young exciting prospects but I always find it funny when people compare production in other leagues when talking about NHL potential.
     
  16. supsens Registered User

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    So Pinto and company will win 2-1 and Cole and the gang will lose 3-2 but he will get his points
    Canfield will have problems defending and stopping guys like Brady he will also have problems when he is used as “the guy” and the rest of the NHL decides to lean on him.
    He can be a great player sure but it’s a long road and winning takes a hell of a lot more than being able to shoot the puck.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2021
  17. Xspyrit Registered User

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    Of course but it's also a very big stage, the biggest for these guys going head to head against the best of the best among your age group. And Caufield didn't shine, he actually didn't look that good when facing top competition. And it's not like he wasn't playing with good teammates or on a very good team

    It's true that he had a very good college season but still have to take these college stats with a grain of salt. The 2nd highest PPG this year was undrafted giant Odeen Tufto (another 5'7). It's a league where a lot of small guys are able to find success in. Very few of them are able to find the same success in the pros though.

    But don't worry, Caufield will still score a lot of goals in the NHL but I think the current hype in Montreal is getting out of hand. This city has been desperate for a "savior" for decades. I mean, every fanbase will hype its prospects but if we'd do it in a similar fashion on the Sens board, then Tkachuk is Cam Neely, Norris is prime Ryan Kesler, Stutzle is Patrick Kane, Sanderson is Scott Niedermayer, Drake Batherson is Mark Stone, etc, etc, etc.

    Finally, yes he has that one elite skill with his shot/release but outside of that, I don't find he's "one of the most skilled prospects out there". Like I said before, several young guys on the Sens I wouldn't trade for Caufield. He's a great prospect to have if you need a goal scorer
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2021
  18. Samsquanch Raging Bull Squatch

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    Caufield was great in college. Dynamic and dominant. And he deserved the HB.

    But lets not pretend like its not easier for tiny/super skilled players to thrive in the NCAA. Because it is.

    Shane Pinto is tailor made for the NHL, and has less question marks. His an athletic monster. His floor is already that of a fantastic and reliable 3rd line C - like already as of today. His polish is years ahead of where it normally should be. And the ceiling is anyones guess right now. He committed to hockey at 15yrs old and has gotten exponentially better (complete game) every single year since then. Its not a good bet to take seeing as how his pro debut went, and how damn good he looked.

    Random comparison here, but realistically they have the potential of being say like a Horvat and Boeser from Vancouver in terms of role, style and impact.

    Boeser is closer to a true 1st line winger than Horvat is a #1C. Horvat is #2C or a 1b on a realistic contender. Thats true. Boeser has elite goal scoring ability, but clearly some questionable habits and tendencies away from the puck. Selfish tendencies.

    Yet Horvat is an excellent two way player that can match up against top lines, and score 50-60pts while battling hard all over the ice. And Im positive Vancouver prefers him on the roster because hes a harder competitor, and would be more valuable/less replaceable in the playoffs over what Boeser brings.

    In case people havent caught on yet, we live in a day where fast, elite. and soft 30g wingers like Mike Hoffman have far less value in the real world than HFboards typically believes they should. Or when Taylor Hall (a younger and former 1st OV mvp) fetches less than Nick Foligno does at the TDL, and people (Hfboards) wonder why....

    Think about it. :thumbu:
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2021
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  19. Tranquilo Naito Old School Rat Rink

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  20. Prairie Habs Registered User

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    Pretty sure everyone knew its because Hall is a goal scorer who had 2 goals in 37 games...

    Should actually tell you a lot about how valuable goal scorers are that even when they are playing terribly they hold value just on the POTENTIAL that they could score goals. The reason you don't see guys who score lots of goals getting big returns is that teams don't trade goal scorers. It only happens when their hand is forced in a situation like Hoffman (which you so disingenuously brought up with zero context).
     
  21. Kryptekah Registered User

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    Just like Romanov, Caufield is being overrated here.

    Its close but not only does Pinto have the higher floor, his ceiling is more valuable than what Caufield's would ever be. (Couturier vs Gaudreau)
     
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  22. Bouboumaster Registered User

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    More like Danault vs Debrincat lol

    And also Caufield > Pinto
     
  23. Bileur Registered User

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    Shane Pinto has significantly higher goal scoring potential than Philip Danault’s career high 13 goals.

    In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if Pinto scored that many next season (barring injury).

    I don’t know how anyone can think they’ve got a winning argument saying Pinto was third on his team in scoring. Pinto was the first unanimous NCHC player of the year and was also named NCHC defensive forward of the year. I’m sure NoDak was fine with him finishing four points behind Kawaguchi.
     
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  24. Xspyrit Registered User

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    Maybe the comparison should be made with this teenager?



    1st star today, 2 goals 1 assists, 4th AHL game, 18 y/o

    Oh yeah, also 6'3
     
  25. Kudo Shinichi Registered User

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    Absolutely not.
    Tufto was 23 years old, and he was playing on one of the weakest conferences in college. Caufield was 19 years old and playing on a much stronger conference. There is a big difference between their situation.
    Caufield stats shows how good and talented he is. It doesn't guarantee it will translate to the NHL, but that's true for every other player (regardless of their size) in every other league.

    By your logic, the stats of every non-nhl league is useless. The AHL's top 5 current scorers are all 5'10 or under, and none of them had success in the nhl. Does that mean that every player stats in the AHL should be taken with a grain of salt?

    The answer is no. You have to look at the player's age and their situation. Zegras, who is 20 years old and has 21 pts in 17 ahl games is in a very different situation than lets say Agostino, who is 29 years old, and has 22 pts in 22 games.

    You can compare him to Ylonen sure.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2021
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