Player Discussion: Carter Verhaeghe

[The Macho King]

There was no way of paying him. Stephens isn't going to magically become a scoring winger, what you see is what you get.

Stephens is more of a "better Peca". I do worry about his size in a fourth line role (because he doesn't seem to have the snarl despite being knee high to a grasshopper that Gourde has).

Injury aside - I worry about Stephens and our fourth line long-term.

 

[Sky04]

Tampa was offering less money and less of a role, he bet on himself instead of staying "safe" on the best team in the league and it looks like it's paying off for him. Regardless, if he had stayed here and produced we wouldn't have been able to afford him next year so it's not that big a loss.

 

[The Gongshow]

Tampa was offering less money and less of a role, he bet on himself instead of staying "safe" on the best team in the league and it looks like it's paying off for him. Regardless, if he had stayed here and produced we wouldn't have been able to afford him next year so it's not that big a loss.

He wasn't going to produce like that here-- even without Kuch this year-- Verhaege wasn't going to crack the top 6 or get PP time (maybe 2nd unit)

It's not to knock his talent, he just wasn't going to be that guy here. Look at Marchessault. Glad he's doing well in Florida though.

 

[Byrddog]

My understanding was that CV left as a FA before Kucherov injury/surgery became a reality. Thus when CV was not signed it was based on assumption that Bolts would have to shed serious salary for cap space. As it turns out, they probably could have kept CV and not resigned Maroon/Rutta. But hindsight is 20-20.

Yet the plan to resign Joseph, Volkov and even Schenn was in the works. Verhaghe at 1 mil per should have been a slam dunk. If JBB had know of the possability that Kuch would miss the season it makes the visual worse. Joseph is pacing for a 24 point 82 game season. Verhaghe had 82 points in 76 games with Syracuse while ABB has had 68 and 56 and most are planning on him being in the top 6 next year. I am happy Verhaghe is getting a legit shot he still may just flame out, but he has looked good so far this season.

 

[Byrddog]

Tampa was offering less money and less of a role, he bet on himself instead of staying "safe" on the best team in the league and it looks like it's paying off for him. Regardless, if he had stayed here and produced we wouldn't have been able to afford him next year so it's not that big a loss.

If he remains a PPG guy it is a big loss, but if he flames out then your correct. Stephens is a center he has no reason to be on the wing. Further he need to have better wings on his line to produce. Just as Verghaghe was stuck in bottom 9 here. And 1 mil a year would not have broken the bank and we could have given him three years instead of the two the panthers gave him.

 

[Sky04]

He wasn't going to produce like that here-- even without Kuch this year-- Verhaege wasn't going to crack the top 6 or get PP time (maybe 2nd unit)

It's not to knock his talent, he just wasn't going to be that guy here. Look at Marchessault. Glad he's doing well in Florida though.

There's no way of knowing that, a line change or injury could've happened and he could've taken off like Kucherov did.

If you went back 4 months and said "CV is signing in Florida so he can play on the first line with Barkov" everyone would've said "he isn't going to crack to the top-6 or get PP time" yet here we are.

 

[The Gongshow]

There's no way of knowing that, a line change or injury could've happened and he could've taken off like Kucherov did.

If you went back 4 months and said "CV is signing in Florida so he can play on the first line with Barkov" everyone would've said "he isn't going to crack to the top-6 or get PP time" yet here we are.

With Florida losing both Dadanov and Hoffman (and losing Trochek last year) there was a much better shot of getting a top 6 position when its just Barkov and Hub left. When in Tampa he has to compete with Stamkos, Point, Palat, Killorn, Cirelli, Johnson. Then Coleman would probably be the next man up.

 

[HoseEmDown]

He wasn't going to produce like that here-- even without Kuch this year-- Verhaege wasn't going to crack the top 6 or get PP time (maybe 2nd unit)

It's not to knock his talent, he just wasn't going to be that guy here. Look at Marchessault. Glad he's doing well in Florida though.

That's on the coach to an extent. Guys like Johnson and Palat have slipped offensively but continued to be played in the top 6. Cooper is still committed to his guys no matter how they're playing so it's extremely hard for him to demote them. Verheaghe showed glimpses when played with good talent that he had the skills to produce in this league, maybe not at a ppg rate but 40-50 point player which is top 6 on many teams.

 

[Hoek]

Who cares he's not a Bolt any more. I bet he cools off anyway.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Yet the plan to resign Joseph, Volkov and even Schenn was in the works. Verhaghe at 1 mil per should have been a slam dunk. If JBB had know of the possability that Kuch would miss the season it makes the visual worse. Joseph is pacing for a 24 point 82 game season. Verhaghe had 82 points in 76 games with Syracuse while ABB has had 68 and 56 and most are planning on him being in the top 6 next year. I am happy Verhaghe is getting a legit shot he still may just flame out, but he has looked good so far this season.

Schenn shouldn't have anything to do with Verheaghe. Joseph and Volkov didn't sign till late December, Verheaghe signed in Florida early October. So it wasn't like the money from those two prevented a Verheaghe signing. Verheaghe had arbitration rights so we couldn't tender him a qualifying offer in case he went to arbitration and he was awarded too much. I'm sure we offered him similar money to Florida but probably couldn't guarantee him a bigger role which is what he probably wanted more.

Joseph might be on pace for just 28 points but he's scoring at a 1.95 p/60 while Palat is just 2.05. He's got a more hits per/60 than Palat. Joseph is more than fine for his price and actually playing better than some so he's no issue. Volkov sucks but Verheaghe wasn't taking 700k and Volkov is the 13th forward while Verheaghe would want more. If we could've moved Johnson then I think we would've resigned Verheaghe we just don't have the money.

 

[Byrddog]

Schenn shouldn't have anything to do with Verheaghe. Joseph and Volkov didn't sign till late December, Verheaghe signed in Florida early October. So it wasn't like the money from those two prevented a Verheaghe signing. Verheaghe had arbitration rights so we couldn't tender him a qualifying offer in case he went to arbitration and he was awarded too much. I'm sure we offered him similar money to Florida but probably couldn't guarantee him a bigger role which is what he probably wanted more.

Joseph might be on pace for just 28 points but he's scoring at a 1.95 p/60 while Palat is just 2.05. He's got a more hits per/60 than Palat. Joseph is more than fine for his price and actually playing better than some so he's no issue. Volkov sucks but Verheaghe wasn't taking 700k and Volkov is the 13th forward while Verheaghe would want more. If we could've moved Johnson then I think we would've resigned Verheaghe we just don't have the money.

Shenns, Joseph and Volkov heck even Maroon had financial impact into the decision for making an offer to Verhaghe. Jbb had the option to sign him before he signed in Florida and matbe he did we do not really know or perhaps Verghaghe saw no chance to move up the line-up and made the decision to move on we do not know that either. What we do know he was stuck playing 3rd and 4th line here at 25 years old he had to position hisself to breakout and it looks as if he has.

In Oct it was all about getting CAP compliant and signing the three RFA's that is what consumed discussion here and probably consumed JBB as well. One also has to think in October that JBB had no idea that Kuch was going to miss the season if he had Verhaghe would have been signed. He also had no idea what he finally signed Cernak and Sergi which was the top priority. The unfortunately the hockey gods threw him a bone with Kuch needing surgery. JBB had all his eggs in one basket of moving Johnson up to that point and it failed,

Now as to Joseph lets see in two weeks if he holds that 1.95 p/60 now that hes down where he should be on the 4th line. Last night he had 9.52 TOI with one SOG and a giveaway. Now if you think Joseph is a better player than Verhaghe then there is not really much we can discuss. But for what 300K more I think we could have had Verhaghe here and that would not have been a deal breaker especially considering Volkov or Joseph could be sent down with little to no sniff at losing them.

 

[Major4Boarding]

Who cares he's not a Bolt any more. I bet he cools off anyway.

I was thinking of Jonathan Marchessault as I read this. Just the former Bolt part. JAM hasn't cooled off

 

[HoseEmDown]

Shenns, Joseph and Volkov heck even Maroon had financial impact into the decision for making an offer to Verhaghe. Jbb had the option to sign him before he signed in Florida and matbe he did we do not really know or perhaps Verghaghe saw no chance to move up the line-up and made the decision to move on we do not know that either. What we do know he was stuck playing 3rd and 4th line here at 25 years old he had to position hisself to breakout and it looks as if he has.

In Oct it was all about getting CAP compliant and signing the three RFA's that is what consumed discussion here and probably consumed JBB as well. One also has to think in October that JBB had no idea that Kuch was going to miss the season if he had Verhaghe would have been signed. He also had no idea what he finally signed Cernak and Sergi which was the top priority. The unfortunately the hockey gods threw him a bone with Kuch needing surgery. JBB had all his eggs in one basket of moving Johnson up to that point and it failed,

Now as to Joseph lets see in two weeks if he holds that 1.95 p/60 now that hes down where he should be on the 4th line. Last night he had 9.52 TOI with one SOG and a giveaway. Now if you think Joseph is a better player than Verhaghe then there is not really much we can discuss. But for what 300K more I think we could have had Verhaghe here and that would not have been a deal breaker especially considering Volkov or Joseph could be sent down with little to no sniff at losing them.

Can you tell me why Joseph deserves to be on the 4th line? Through 10 games he has 2 goals and 1 assist all at ES. Palat has 6 points but at ES he has just 2 goals 2 assists and Johnson has 0 goals and 3 assists at ES. Joseph has played well this season and is more than worth his contract, he also plays a game that can be used effectively in the bottom 6. Verhaghe would be wasted playing on the 4th line and we need that 250k in cap difference.

You keep talking about Schenn for some reason. We need to ice 6D and we can't go without having a good 7th D when needed. Schenn makes less than Verhaghe so not sure how he affects that signing? As for Maroon he's not a better player than Verhaghe, so I get the sentiment that we should've paid the extra 100k to Verhaghe instead. But we need a Maroon on this team more than a Verhaghe. We have enough Verhaghe types who can score in the top 6. Yes I would trade Johnson and Palat for Verhaghe because he can do as good or better than then for much less but that's not an option and we couldn't move them this offseason. But we need Maroon on this team, we have to have a big body in the forward group to make us tougher to play against and give us a different dimension when needed. I'm a big Verhaghe fan but the guy wasn't getting a fair shake here, just like Joseph isn't now, so it was better for him to leave and take a chance on himself.

 

[Byrddog]

Can you tell me why Joseph deserves to be on the 4th line? Through 10 games he has 2 goals and 1 assist all at ES. Palat has 6 points but at ES he has just 2 goals 2 assists and Johnson has 0 goals and 3 assists at ES. Joseph has played well this season and is more than worth his contract, he also plays a game that can be used effectively in the bottom 6. Verhaghe would be wasted playing on the 4th line and we need that 250k in cap difference.

You keep talking about Schenn for some reason. We need to ice 6D and we can't go without having a good 7th D when needed. Schenn makes less than Verhaghe so not sure how he affects that signing? As for Maroon he's not a better player than Verhaghe, so I get the sentiment that we should've paid the extra 100k to Verhaghe instead. But we need a Maroon on this team more than a Verhaghe. We have enough Verhaghe types who can score in the top 6. Yes I would trade Johnson and Palat for Verhaghe because he can do as good or better than then for much less but that's not an option and we couldn't move them this offseason. But we need Maroon on this team, we have to have a big body in the forward group to make us tougher to play against and give us a different dimension when needed. I'm a big Verhaghe fan but the guy wasn't getting a fair shake here, just like Joseph isn't now, so it was better for him to leave and take a chance on himself.

The answer to your question is Nikita Kucherov. His being out has effected the entire forward lineup. If he were healthey he would be on that top line stammer would be on the 2nd and Joseph would not break the 3rd line up. Hell Johnson would be on the 4th line so Joseph would be a permiscratch just as he was last year. Because he potted a couple goals playing in the top 6 with Kuch out does not justify his worth. He will never take a wing slot here as long at Palat, Kuch, Killorn, Stammer Coleman, Goodrow and Johnson are here. Might wanna listen to Espo a little he was critical and complimentary to Joseph last night but the gaffs he still makes makes him a 4th liner that could play up to 3rd line if needed. He in no way is top 6 material on ANY contending team. Yet he is defended as if he is a 25 goal 50 point guy. There is a reason he road the bench or was in the AHL last year after playing 70 games in Tampa the year before.

 

[HoseEmDown]

The answer to your question is Nikita Kucherov. His being out has effected the entire forward lineup. If he were healthey he would be on that top line stammer would be on the 2nd and Joseph would not break the 3rd line up. Hell Johnson would be on the 4th line so Joseph would be a permiscratch just as he was last year. Because he potted a couple goals playing in the top 6 with Kuch out does not justify his worth. He will never take a wing slot here as long at Palat, Kuch, Killorn, Stammer Coleman, Goodrow and Johnson are here. Might wanna listen to Espo a little he was critical and complimentary to Joseph last night but the gaffs he still makes makes him a 4th liner that could play up to 3rd line if needed. He in no way is top 6 material on ANY contending team. Yet he is defended as if he is a 25 goal 50 point guy. There is a reason he road the bench or was in the AHL last year after playing 70 games in Tampa the year before.

Stop trying to deflect. Kucherov has nothing to do with discussion. Tell me what Palat and Johnson are doing that much better than Joseph to where they deserve top 6 spots? Is it offensively? Because at ES Palat has 1 more point, Johnson doesn't even have an ES goal. Defensively Johnson isn't better, Joseph has better shot for than against numbers vs Palat. His hits p/60 are better than Palat. I'm not saying that if you put Joseph in Palats spot he'll be that much better but he can't be any worse either. Palat is playing with Point and Stamkos while not keeping up with them at ES. Joseph looked better with Killorn and Cirelli then Johnson has. Sure Joseph sucked last year but it's not like players can't improve. Nobody is saying he's a 25g 50p player nor defending him that way. I'm defending him but know he's not a 25g player. But do you know who aren't 25g 50p players? Johnson and Palat anymore.

You were going on about how we should've signed Verheaghe but he would be getting the shaft like Joseph is. Cooper has his guys and he sticks with them no matter what. Verheaghe showed last year he was better when played higher up in the lineup but that meant dropping one of Cooper guys down a line which he refused to. The same is going on now where Joseph is playing better than Johnson and as good as Palat but not getting the chances they are. But the thing with Joseph is that he could still be effective in a 4th line role so he's still helping the team even if he isn't getting the chance he should.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

He’s trash. Bone head decisions with the puck

no hockey IQ

 

[HoseEmDown]

He’s trash. Bone head decisions with the puck

no hockey IQ

I wish we could trade Tyler Johnson too, looks like we're stuck with him though.

 

[Sky04]

He’s trash. Bone head decisions with the puck

no hockey IQ

Yes that's why we didn't re-sign Shattenkirk, wrong thread though.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Yes that's why we didn't re-sign Shattenkirk, wrong thread though.

We wanted shatty and couldn’t afford him.

he’s not that bad

 

[Lightning1995]

This appears to be a massive mistake

 

[violaswallet]

This appears to be a massive mistake

Florida fan here: Verh has been great for us especially given that he doesn’t play top line power play. I wouldn’t worry too much given that your team is stacked: we beat you handily today but well you were lacking two mvps!

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Florida fan here: Verh has been great for us especially given that he doesn’t play top line power play. I wouldn’t worry too much given that your team is stacked: we beat you handily today but well you were lacking two mvps!

We're kind of spoiled at this point, but it is quite frustrating to have seen a guy be so good and then watch JAM and CV walk off the squad for nothing and establish themselves while watching a guy who was so important in the 2015-2016 push decline with this contract that's tough to move. Enjoy him and get ready for the next round of cast offs.

 

[Sky04]

We're kind of spoiled at this point, but it is quite frustrating to have seen a guy be so good and then watch JAM and CV walk off the squad for nothing and establish themselves while watching a guy who was so important in the 2015-2016 push decline with this contract that's tough to move. Enjoy him and get ready for the next round of cast offs.

Yeah sucks to lose CV given his size and playstyle, at least JAM was redundent with our small forwards.

He looked like a legit top line power forward tonight, definitely not riding shotgun to Barkov. On the other hand, Connolly hasn't really gotten better at all.

Strals kind of invisible and Gudas looks like someone neutered him.

 

[Byrddog]

Florida fan here: Verh has been great for us especially given that he doesn’t play top line power play. I wouldn’t worry too much given that your team is stacked: we beat you handily today but well you were lacking two mvps!

Don't downplay your team, while true we were without the big two you guys are dangerous. Coach Q is doing a great job. The weakness you have is in net I have seen every Panthers game this year and I can not find a reason Bob should still be a starter. Other than his pay level.

 

[DFC]

My only regret/gripe is that we never give guys a look on scoring lines unless they're insanely talented. Point and Cirelli forced their way in, but it's hard to know what we have in some of these kids when they only get a real look if someone is injured.

Even Point needed a rush of injuries to get his first chance on a top six line in 2017.

Right now I'm looking at Mathieu Joseph and thinking he could be a real weapon if we let him play with skilled linemates. Almost like a super fast version of Alex Killorn.