Player Discussion: Carter Verhaeghe

[Tampacuseforever]

Verhaeghe hasn’t been good period. The problem we have is we are not winning enough and can’t afford to give him much more time. This is the win now league, the AHL is the development league. While I feel for the guy and hope he can make a go of it, the NHL and this team in particular can’t afford to wait too long.

 

[Byrddog]

Yea was hoping to see Joseph take a step forward. He hasnt done that yet.

Joseph will never take a step forward unless he changes his game. His wide open darting around makes it so easy for someone to just knock him on his ass. He drew a boarding penalty last night because his focus was directly on the puck and not what was going on around him. He needs to see the ice and play ahead of the defense. He does not get that yet and he is crushed night in night out. Look at Point he is quick also but his head is up and he sees things that are going on. If Joseph does not get it together he will not be around long either his play or an injury is going to end his NHL days.

 

[Tampacuseforever]

I think what you see now with Joseph is what you get. He is a good solid player but not a top 6 guy. He has never shown me any higher end offensive skill.

 

[Sky04]

This happens all the time with our prospects, people over exaggerate their ability or for some reason want to play them out of their scope. All summer people wanted Joseph and Cirelli in the top-6 for some reason, guys like Johnson and Palat get enough flack for lack of production and we want sub-40 point players there? Playing in the top-6 doesn't guarantee production when you don't have the skillset.

Cirelli and Joseph are excellent 3rd liners, especially Cirelli who's one of the top 3C's in the league but if you bump him up he becomes an average to below average 2C. You get a deep team by having good value at each position, Cirelli and Joseph in the 3rd line = excellent value, Cirelli and Joseph in your top-6? Eh.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

I know you're a Verheaghe hater and you think I'm a Verheaghe lover so we won't agree. I just don't see how you can keep saying how bad he's been. Yes the results haven't been there point wise but his advanced stats are good. He's played 13 games and his shots for to shots against while on ice is a +21, Witkowski played 12 games and he was a -50. People thought Witkowski was ok because he hit everything but that was because he was running around in the D zone getting crushed with shots against. It's also not like Verheaghe is starting in the ozone more either, he's been deployed for dzone starts more than offensive ones. Yes he doesn't hit, block shots or do much else but he's not Witkowski bad. His shot for number is the 3rd best amongst forwards, he just isn't getting any luck with points.

I mean I don’t hate the guy. I’m voicing my opinion louder then normal because not many people on here are.

I’m only saying it because he will be gone. He can’t play. And we can’t afford to keep losing.

I agree with you 100 on Witkowski

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

I think what you see now with Joseph is what you get. He is a good solid player but not a top 6 guy. He has never shown me any higher end offensive skill.

Pretty bang on post

 

[Zwui21]

We've given him all the time he needed, and he's still not performing at an NHL level. Advanced stats may say a different story, but he ALWAYS looks scared of receiving the puck and make a play. Send him down, if he's claimed whatever.

He's a dead weight for his line we have better options and if we don't let's get some via trade

 

[LightningStrikes]

We've given him all the time he needed, and he's still not performing at an NHL level. Advanced stats may say a different story, but he ALWAYS looks scared of receiving the puck and make a play. Send him down, if he's claimed whatever.

He's a dead weight for his line we have better options and if we don't let's get some via trade

Yeah, playing on the top line in Syracuse will give him some confidence. Right now he’s just another warm body.

 

[HoseEmDown]

We've given him all the time he needed, and he's still not performing at an NHL level. Advanced stats may say a different story, but he ALWAYS looks scared of receiving the puck and make a play. Send him down, if he's claimed whatever.

He's a dead weight for his line we have better options and if we don't let's get some via trade

But if the advanced stats say he's playing well doesn't that show he is performing? Sure the production isn't there but he's doing the things that are helping the team not hurt it. It's also hard to do anything when you get less than 6 minutes of ice time. He got 5:20 last night and had one of our best chances not on the PP. Cooper is killing him and even Joseph with their deployment and ice time. He isn't given these kids enough time to get anything going and is constantly changing their linemates throughout the game.

Who would we bring up that would be worth having in his spot instead? Your Conacher, Smith or Martel won't be doing any different if they get 5 minutes a night. It's not worth wasting Barré-Boulet or another prospect in that spot if Cooper won't use them properly. Verheaghe isn't bleeding goals or shots, which Witkowski did, so there's no need to send him down just to bring up someone who's production will probably be similar. Just keep throwing him out there for the 7 minutes and see if he can create something but if he can't at least we aren't going to be trapped in our zone the whole 7 minutes being outshot. As a 12th forward you could do much worse and if he does find something you get that bonus.

 

[AndreRoy]

But if the advanced stats say he's playing well doesn't that show he is performing? Sure the production isn't there but he's doing the things that are helping the team not hurt it. It's also hard to do anything when you get less than 6 minutes of ice time. He got 5:20 last night and had one of our best chances not on the PP. Cooper is killing him and even Joseph with their deployment and ice time. He isn't given these kids enough time to get anything going and is constantly changing their linemates throughout the game.

Who would we bring up that would be worth having in his spot instead? Your Conacher, Smith or Martel won't be doing any different if they get 5 minutes a night. It's not worth wasting Barré-Boulet or another prospect in that spot if Cooper won't use them properly. Verheaghe isn't bleeding goals or shots, which Witkowski did, so there's no need to send him down just to bring up someone who's production will probably be similar. Just keep throwing him out there for the 7 minutes and see if he can create something but if he can't at least we aren't going to be trapped in our zone the whole 7 minutes being outshot. As a 12th forward you could do much worse and if he does find something you get that bonus.

I agree with Hose on this one. I’m fine with taking the risk of losing Verhaeghe if we’re bringing in/up someone who would be a substantial improvement; I just don’t see anyone in Syracuse who fits that description right now.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

I wouldn't mind the addition of a Pageau in his place.

 

[Tampacuseforever]

It’s obvious Cooper doesn’t trust him and you can’t continue to go 11 and 7 when in truth it becomes 10 and 7 when Verhaeghe gets so few minutes. When Conacher plays he gets 10 to 12 minutes. Long term this is a recipe for our top guys to get hurt and physically exhausted. Verhaeghe needs to be sent down and I’m sick of hearing someone will claim him nonsense. First off who really cares and secondly his performance and ice time sure doesn’t scream “claim me”. As for Pageau I would rather a larger player and closer to the deadline . We need to win in the regular season and worry about our size closer to the trade deadline.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

Joseph will never take a step forward unless he changes his game. His wide open darting around makes it so easy for someone to just knock him on his ass. He drew a boarding penalty last night because his focus was directly on the puck and not what was going on around him. He needs to see the ice and play ahead of the defense. He does not get that yet and he is crushed night in night out. Look at Point he is quick also but his head is up and he sees things that are going on. If Joseph does not get it together he will not be around long either his play or an injury is going to end his NHL days.

Hey, we actually agree on something. Joseph is wonderful but I don't see him being much more than a Pageau type - good 30-40 point player, great motor, great speed but needs to protect himself.

 

[Steazy Doo]

Pageau would be a nice fit

 

[FinnLightning26]

I wouldn't mind the addition of a Pageau in his place.

I've thought for a bit now that he could be a nice addition in the middle six. Shouldn't be too costly either as he's a upcoming UFA.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

I've thought for a bit now that he could be a nice addition in the middle six. Shouldn't be too costly either as he's a upcoming UFA.

Going to fetch a premium for his production this season, and should come with a buyer beware tag. He isn't bad, but he is shooting way over his head and outproducing anything he has ever done before so I wouldn't much expect it again.

 

[HoseEmDown]

If we're going to spend assets to upgrade the team it should be on defense not another forward. We shouldn't be playing Schenn and Rutta as much as we do and we need cover for Cernak as he doesn't look near the part this year.

Spending to upgrade the 11th or 12th forward especially big assets, 1st rounder, which is what Pageau will cost is foolish. Verheaghe is 3rd in shot for differential just 1 behind Point and Kucherov while Joseph is 5th. Those two are doing well in their role they just need to finish more themselves or play with someone who can and not Johnson whose struggling to score as well. In a possession sense and shot generation one they aren't needed to be upgraded.

 

[Todd1a]

If we're going to spend assets to upgrade the team it should be on defense not another forward. We shouldn't be playing Schenn and Rutta as much as we do and we need cover for Cernak as he doesn't look near the part this year.

Spending to upgrade the 11th or 12th forward especially big assets, 1st rounder, which is what Pageau will cost is foolish. Verheaghe is 3rd in shot for differential just 1 behind Point and Kucherov while Joseph is 5th. Those two are doing well in their role they just need to finish more themselves or play with someone who can and not Johnson whose struggling to score as well. In a possession sense and shot generation one they aren't needed to be upgraded.

agree this team is not going anywhere until they upgrade rutta, schenn or even when coburn comes back they need an upgrade over these 3

 

[LightningStrikes]

 

[Tampacuseforever]

Great to see hopefully he can keep it up.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Awesome game by Verhaeghe! And I hate the guy....

Great hustle. He was the hardest working player on the ice hands down.

let’s hope he keeps up the great work ethic. It something else to watch! Love it

 

[Felonious Python]

Carty V got "the letter"

 

[LightningStrikes]

Awesome game by Verhaeghe! And I hate the guy....

Great hustle. He was the hardest working player on the ice hands down.

let’s hope he keeps up the great work ethic. It something else to watch! Love it

Hate, really?

 

[Dr Quincy]

Kid can skate... both the chip to himself and then later on the goal he scored. Sometimes players need a bit of time to transition from AHL to NHL. Don't see why he can't be a 15-15 energy player or possibly more.

 

[bov]

He's had the hustle since day 1 but not always the tenacity to accompany it...last night he was a man possessed, I like him much more alongside the likes of Stamkos and Johnson vs. a 4th line / checking role.