Injury Report: Carter Hart, lower body injury, out the next 10 days (Feb. 23)

[Outlaw Samurai]

I guess it could be true, it's hard to give this team the benefit of the doubt though.

 

[1865]

Gordon said Hart tweaked something in gameday skate in Montreal, didn't say anything, thought he could play through it and then it got worse.

That seems likely. If it was a fake one then DTD, not 10 days.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

So, in short, you have nothing. You don’t even know when or how he got hurt, but you’re convinced playing 4 times in 6 nights (even when the last 2 times are 10 MINUTES each) equals disaster. But the playoffs are unexplainably different.

And now pointing out that fans are making medical conclusions with zero scientific evidence is attempted to be dismissed as “contrarian.”

you dont have anything either. So there is that as well.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

he asked you to prove him wrong with his example. Or do you have nothing?

My argument is that he has no evidence yet is treating it as fact. I’m not trying to prove that his opinion is necessarily wrong — I just want to see some scientific proof. And he has none.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

My argument is that he has no evidence yet is treating it as fact. I’m not trying to prove that his opinion is necessarily wrong — I just want to see some scientific proof. And he has none.

But you are acting like you are 100 percent right. Do you have evidence that I am wrong?
At worst we are at a stalemate. I am done.
Because at this point we are both at a no win situation

 

[Ghosts Beer]

But you are acting like you are 100 percent right. Do you have evidence that I am wrong?
At worst we are at a stalemate. I am done.
Because at this point we are both at a no win situation

I am 100 percent right that you’ve offered no scientific evidence to support your medical claim.

You’re acting like I’m trying to prove the polar opposite of your position. I’m not. I’m just pointing out that you’re treating something as fact with no evidence.

I’m sure there’s a point where fatigue increases injury risk. But I haven’t seen any proof shown regarding at what usage point that happens; by what degree it is increased, etc. I just see a bunch of hindsight, & acting like it’s medical fact that playing 4 times in 6 nights leads to unreasonable injury risk. What’s the cutoff point? Would Hart not have hurt himself if only he didn’t play 10 minutes against Tampa? Are morning skates an unreasonable injury risk, because that’s where apparently he got hurt? How do practices fit into this framework?

And no one who propagates the theory that Hart was hurt due to overuse has any answers to these questions. Because they don’t know.

 

[Curufinwe]

That seems likely. If it was a fake one then DTD, not 10 days.

And they would have announced it before naming Elliott starter, not after.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

This is going to be very f***ing rough with Elliott. Get well quickly and come back and do well .

 

[deadhead]

Elliott is playing just fine, when he's healthy he's a solid backup goalie, unfortunately, after last week's performance, he's probably going to get traded tomorrow to a team like San Jose that's desperate for a goalie who can fog a mirror.

 

[DaphneLion]

 

[Beef Invictus]

My argument is that he has no evidence yet is treating it as fact. I’m not trying to prove that his opinion is necessarily wrong — I just want to see some scientific proof. And he has none.

Here's research indicating the correlation of fatigue (you know, the thing caused by overuse) and injury.

Training Load and Fatigue Marker Associations with Injury and Illness: A Systematic Review of Longitudinal Studies

Athletes training load and fatigue should be monitored and modified appropriately during key stages of training and competition, such as periods of intensification of work training load, accumulated training load and changes in acute training load, otherwise there is a significant risk of injury.

Immunosuppression occurs following a rapid increase in training load. Athletes who do not return to baseline levels within the latency period (7–21 days) are at higher risk of illness during this period.

Individual characteristics such as fitness, body composition, playing level, injury history and age have a significant impact on internal training loads placed on the athlete. Longitudinal management is therefore recommended to reduce the risk of injury and illness.

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

You've been shown all of this before though, so I have no doubt you will ignore it again. Even though our goalies keep getting injured immediately following heavy usage not employed by other teams who don't have our goalie injury woes.

 

[Curufinwe]

Plenty of other teams used their starter as much or more than Hart since he was called up.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Plenty of other teams used their starter as much or more than Hart since he was called up.

List the teams who used their starters in 4 games in 6 days, including a back-to-back. Should be easy since there's plenty.

 

[Adtar02]

My argument is that he has no evidence yet is treating it as fact. I’m not trying to prove that his opinion is necessarily wrong — I just want to see some scientific proof. And he has none.

It’s been posted long before. You ignored it. Fatigue can increase the likelihood of injury.

Mostly likely he felt a minor pull nothing big and then it grew in to a bigger issue. Also may still be very minor and the flyers are protecting their future instead of trying to over play a possible stud too young.

 

[Jtown]

in an era of upper and lower body injuries, fletch says this.

 

[Adtar02]

I am 100 percent right that you’ve offered no scientific evidence to support your medical claim.

You’re acting like I’m trying to prove the polar opposite of your position. I’m not. I’m just pointing out that you’re treating something as fact with no evidence.

I’m sure there’s a point where fatigue increases injury risk. But I haven’t seen any proof shown regarding at what usage point that happens; by what degree it is increased, etc. I just see a bunch of hindsight, & acting like it’s medical fact that playing 4 times in 6 nights leads to unreasonable injury risk. What’s the cutoff point? Would Hart not have hurt himself if only he didn’t play 10 minutes against Tampa? Are morning skates an unreasonable injury risk, because that’s where apparently he got hurt? How do practices fit into this framework?

And no one who propagates the theory that Hart was hurt due to overuse has any answers to these questions. Because they don’t know.

Wow man. Just wow. For someone who constantly miss uses and argues false points. Just wow. Hi kettle meet pot

 

[Beef Invictus]

in an era of upper and lower body injuries, fletch says this.

Well, I think goalies are at less risk than skaters. Goalies are way more protected, it's harder for guys to target them.

 

[Jtown]

Well, I think goalies are at less risk than skaters. Goalies are way more protected, it's harder for guys to target them.

you know we play malkin and hornqvist 4 times a year right ? Lets not forget our friend tom wilson either.

 

[Curufinwe]

List the teams who used their starters in 4 games in 6 days, including a back-to-back. Should be easy since there's plenty.

It is easy, yeah. Just sort goalies by GP since 12/17.

 

[GKJ]

Did we ever find out if he was papered to the Phantoms?

 

[Beef Invictus]

It is easy, yeah. Just sort goalies by GP since 12/17.

OK then, list those goalies who were put through a workload of 4 games in 6 days including a back to back.

Games Played doesn't factor in back-to-back usage. A back-to-back is a far harder workload than the same number of games with rest in between. How many goalies do we need to have injured after playing that kind of schedule before the lightbulb goes off? In the last year we've got three.

 

[Curufinwe]

You do it. I’m tired of doing all the work for people who are too lazy to do any research.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You do it. I’m tired of doing all the work for people who are too lazy to do any research.

Fine. You don't want to back up your assertion, I'll do your work for you. Never mind that I did research and posted it here, and you're the lazy one in this scenario.

Here is the list of starting goalies with 4 games in 6 days since Hart hit the NHL:

Carey Price (Injured after doing so)
Bob (Done leading into longer rest, unlike Hart)
Holtby (Led into the break, unlike Hart)
Rinne (led into a break, unlike Hart)
Cam Talbot (Only goalie to get that usage without a break and not get injured)
Luongo (Was done leading into a break, unlike Hart.)

I did the top 33 goalies, past that usage gets pretty spread out. First, this isn't exactly "plenty." Second, 4 of the 6 goalies to have that stretch of usage only got that stretch directly before they had a break, which sets them apart. Talbot, Price, and Hart did not get a break, which makes them comparable. Price and Hart were both injured. We've also seen Elliot get that kind of usage and get injured, too. So, among those 4 examples of that usage without a break after you're looking at a 75% injury rate.


Combine that with the research I posted showing a link between fatigue and injury (and there is more than just that link, by the by), and it's nothing but stubbornness to deny that usage and injury are interlinked.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Fine. You don't want to back up your assertion, I'll do your work for you. Never mind that I did research and posted it here, and you're the lazy one in this scenario.

Here is the list of starting goalies with 4 games in 6 days since Hart hit the NHL:

Carey Price (Injured after doing so)
Bob (Done leading into longer rest, unlike Hart)
Holtby (Led into the break, unlike Hart)
Rinne (led into a break, unlike Hart)
Cam Talbot (Only goalie to get that usage without a break and not get injured)
Luongo (Was done leading into a break, unlike Hart.)

I did the top 33 goalies, past that usage gets pretty spread out. First, this isn't exactly "plenty." Second, 4 of the 6 goalies to have that stretch of usage only got that stretch directly before they had a break, which sets them apart. Talbot, Price, and Hart did not get a break, which makes them comparable. Price and Hart were both injured. We've also seen Elliot get that kind of usage and get injured, too. So, among those 4 examples of that usage without a break after you're looking at a 75% injury rate.


Combine that with the research I posted showing a link between fatigue and injury (and there is more than just that link, by the by), and it's nothing but stubbornness to deny that usage and injury are interlinked.

phhhfttt... let me see those medical records, hahaahah