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Sotnos

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canes-sth said:
As an aside - what's with the fascination about contract/relocation that never ends here?
I wish I knew. It got old about 2 years ago, especially since the people in favor of contraction/relocation can never come up with viable reasons. :shakehead

I mean, it's like the fans have to compete with each other instead of the teams?
It's pretty much like that, yep. :)
 

Sens Rule

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Squiddy said:
That wasn't 12,000 ... No way.... There were Sections upon sections empty.

I watched the game on TV and it was embarrassing to see how few people were in the lower bowl on the sides. They probably only sold 15% of the tickets in that whole section. The bottom behind the nets looked far more full than the sides however. Although the upper seats may have been quite full, though you can't see that on TV. Even if they really had 12000 fans at the game, they sold only the cheapest seats. And even if they draw 4000 more for other games I bet that most of the empty seats are the most expensive ones. I wonder what the average price paid per ticket was maybe $25-$30 or even less depending on how many $12 tickets there were. Assuming it was $25 that is $300000 in cash from attendance. Over a season that is about $13 million in revenues. That is not near enough even if their attendance is better for other games and you add in the other game day revenue they can't possibly not lose $15-$20 million or more this season. This is simplistic math but Carolina can't possibly be profitable or even close.
 

A Good Flying Bird*

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Sotnos said:
I wish I knew. It got old about 2 years ago, especially since the people in favor of contraction/relocation can never come up with viable reasons. :shakehead

It's pretty much like that, yep. :)


Viable reasons for moving?

How about last night's attendance? I/m not kidding. That's bloody embarassing.

We'll know more at the the end of the season, but come on. There were complete sections of the lower bowl that were totally empty.

It looked like Western Michigan paid a visit to Eastern Michigan in MAC football.

Look, Carolina has proven that it wasn't viable in the old NHL.
Hence the salary cap.

If it can't hack it now, what do you suggest?
 

Squiddy*

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TinCanCommunications said:
Viable reasons for moving?

How about last night's attendance? I/m not kidding. That's bloody embarassing.

We'll know more at the the end of the season, but come on. There were complete sections of the lower bowl that were totally empty.

It looked like Western Michigan paid a visit to Eastern Michigan in MAC football.

Look, Carolina has proven that it wasn't viable in the old NHL.
Hence the salary cap.

If it can't hack it now, what do you suggest?

What's the point in arguing? I spent a considerable amount of time arguing how houston would be more viable than Nashville in another thread, but some how it kept going in circles. All I can say is we'll have to wait and see. If it goes the way I think it will two teams are going to end up moving in 2 years.
 

Guy Legend

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Sotnos said:
I wish I knew. It got old about 2 years ago, especially since the people in favor of contraction/relocation can never come up with viable reasons. :shakehead

It's pretty much like that, yep. :)

I thought that watching a game on TV and making one's own perception on attendance was reason enough to discuss contraction/relocation.... ;)

Some people don't realize that all 30 teams will remain where they are. Houston, Portland, and KC are not going to get teams. The NHL is hell bent on stability.

The pipe dreams about Winnipeg should stop too.
 

Squiddy*

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Guy Legend said:
I thought that watching a game on TV and making one's own perception on attendance was reason enough to discuss contraction/relocation.... ;)

Some people don't realize that all 30 teams will remain where they are. Houston, Portland, and KC are not going to get teams. The NHL is hell bent on stability.

The pipe dreams about Winnipeg should stop too.

St louis would sell out for an undefeated day or get real close to it wouldn't they?
 

StevenintheATL

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It's not just the Southern markets with large sections of empty seats. I'm watching the Thrashers-Isles game and the Nassau Coliseum has a lot of empty seats tonight. I'm seeing rows in the lower levels with either 2 people or are empty.
 

Squiddy*

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vespajet said:
It's not just the Southern markets with large sections of empty seats. I'm watching the Thrashers-Isles game and the Nassau Coliseum has a lot of empty seats tonight. I'm seeing rows in the lower levels with either 2 people or are empty.

The isles aren't going anywhere and they also have some expensive tickets. Its not really a southern thing for me I think Atlanta will be fine. Just the preds and canes are the only two markets that come to mind because they are the smaller ones in the NHL that are not doing very well. In my opinion Atlanta shouldn't even get thrown into the relocation equation. That market is strong for sports and media if you have a competitive team.
 
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Hawker14

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Guy Legend said:
The pipe dreams about Winnipeg should stop too.

crazy winnipeggers who sell out world junior exhibition games and drive through snowstorms to get to grand forks should stop dreaming ?

maybe. won't happen though. winnipeg's a great city and our nhl dream is very much alive !!!!
 

canes-sth

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Feb 21, 2005
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Oh my - I see large sections of empty seats in Pittsburgh. It must mean that the luster is already off #87 and even the people who snatched up all those tickets aren't coming. :shakehead

Please. Enough of the pissing match based on tv observations.

NHL "fans" must be the biggest bunch of self-hating sports fan that exist.

The Canes are 3 home game into the post-lockout world and the franchise should start packing. That's just stupid -- even if the franchise does fail to prove itself viable in this market at some point - today's not the day.
 

Squiddy*

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hawker14 said:
crazy winnipeggers who sell out world junior exhibition games and drive through snowstorms to get to grand forks should stop dreaming ?

maybe. won't happen though. winnipeg's a great city and our nhl dream is very much alive !!!!

Need an ownership group first.
 

Guy Legend

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Squiddy said:
Bah I sound like I wrote a bunch of gibberish. If the blues were undefeated wouldn't they be up there in attendance?

Probably. The Blues have consistently been in the top 4-6 in attendance for the entire league the past few years.

This year, with the team for sale (and the handicap imposed as a result), and Cardinal baseball, there has been little excitement for hockey in St. Louis thus far.
 

Squiddy*

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Guy Legend said:
Probably. The Blues have consistently been in the top 4-6 in attendance for the entire league the past few years.

This year, with the team for sale (and the handicap imposed as a result), and Cardinal baseball, there has been little excitement for hockey in St. Louis thus far.

When is checkettes going to take over?
 

PoutinePourMoi

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IDK, in MOST cases I dont like the idea of hockey teams in the south. I am a purist for the hockey in the north. It dosent seem that Carolina has worked. The team dosent win, and the people dont come. The owners dont seem to put enough time and money into the team, and maybe its because they are losing so much money with the team. I believe it is just a matter of time before the Canes move, wherever they may go.
 

Squiddy*

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CTBruins87 said:
IDK, in MOST cases I dont like the idea of hockey teams in the south. I am a purist for the hockey in the north. It dosent seem that Carolina has worked. The team dosent win, and the people dont come. The owners dont seem to put enough time and money into the team, and maybe its because they are losing so much money with the team. I believe it is just a matter of time before the Canes move, wherever they may go.

It can and will work in the south but only in big markets. Small markets in the south are death. Look at Dallas they have done very well.
 

SedinFan*

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TinCanCommunications said:
Saw highlights from yestedays win over Ottawa. Good for them.

But what the hell? The main thing I noticed were the swaths of empty seets ... front row, second row, third row, etc, etc.
Like blocks of seats -- 100s at a time --- in the lower bowl --- Empty.

What the hell?

It's simple, Raleigh isn't a hockey market.
 

Guy Legend

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Squiddy said:
When is checkettes going to take over?

I wish I knew. Info is being kept real tight. Checketts has a 30 day window of exclusive negotiating (which is all that is confirmed about him thus far).

He hasn't bought the team yet, but his 30 days is almost up. We should be hearing something soon.
 

kdb209

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Squiddy said:
The isles aren't going anywhere and they also have some expensive tickets. Its not really a southern thing for me I think Atlanta will be fine. Just the preds and canes are the only two markets that come to mind because they are the smaller ones in the NHL that are not doing very well. In my opinion Atlanta shouldn't even get thrown into the relocation equation. That market is strong for sports and media if you have a competitive team.

I wouldn't be so certain about the Isles. They come or go not on their own merits, but on the vagaries of Nassau County real estate development. If Wang gets his lighthouse redevlopment deal which includes Coliseum renovations, or another arena deal surfaces soon, then the Isles will stay - otherwise they are gone in a few years - to Portland or Houston or Brooklyn (New arena being built for NJ Nets). Right now Nassau County is basically bankrupt (as well as corrupt) and it will be very difficult to get any public dollars.

Pittsburgh is in the same boat. The Slot's liscence thing plays out and they get a new Arena, they stay - otherwise Mario gives up, sells, and they move.

I don't see the Preds moving given their sweetheart lease deal in the GEC plus the costs for breaking the lease. The Canes on the other hand ...
 

canes-sth

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Feb 21, 2005
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Squiddy said:
Bah I sound like I wrote a bunch of gibberish. If the blues were undefeated wouldn't they be up there in attendance?

Proving the point that every market wants a winner aren't you?

The Blues are exactly 1 notch above the Canes in avg attendance thus far - with 3 more home games than the Canes. Blues have had 3 Sat. night games - Canes have had 1 Fri. night game.

Now where is that smiley banging its head against the wall.
 

Squiddy*

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canes-sth said:
Proving the point that every market wants a winner aren't you?

The Blues are exactly 1 notch above the Canes in avg attendance thus far - with 3 more home games than the Canes. Blues have had 3 Sat. night games - Canes have had 1 Fri. night game.

Now where is that smiley banging its head against the wall.

You can't compare St louis' fan base to Carolina's ... There is no comparison.
 

Pantokrator

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The problem with the Canes has been winning. After the trip to the Finals, the town was all behind them, but then they backed it up with such a lousy campaign that they lost all momentum, then, followed by ANOTHER lousy campaign made it worse. I went to a Blue Jackets/Canes game last season which the Canes lost 3-0, and found it one of the most boring if not THE most boring game I ever witnessed. I found myself just pulling for Zherdev and Nash. It doesn't help that clowns like Caulton Tudor from the N&O despise hockey and know nothing about the sport and that fool seems to deride it every chance he gets, which doesn't help popular opinion.

However, I believe that if this team can keep playing well, fans will come back. They have a solid but small rabid following, which continue to support them, and if they can just spread the word that this is an exciting team to watch now, I think the fans will come back.

About Charlotte, they would support the team probably worse than Raleigh. Charlotte is a bigger town, but they don't seem to have as rabid of a fan base. NFL football attracts fans from around the state. It's only once a week and the games are always on Sundays. I have several friends that go to see several games a year from Raleigh, so don't get the impression that the Panthers' fans are only from Charlotte. NFL football in the States is like NHL in Canada. It'll have a good draw no matter how good or bad the team is.
 

Squiddy*

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Yeah football has such a limited amount of games and you can sell every ticket in between the week and hype everything up. Tail gating is one of the reasons why people come out to football games. Tail gating doesn't take place during an 82 game schedule, but the playoffs are different especially deep into the playoffs. I don't know we'll see what happens with the canes. If they draw well good for them if not there are plenty of candidate cities for relocation.
 

Pantokrator

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For some reason too, Karmanos seems intent upon staying here. I don't know why. If I were him, I'd have packed up by now. if they don't make money this year yet have a winning record, I think logically he should move.
 
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