Toggle sidebar

Proposal: Carolina - Toronto

Knies iT

Knies iT

Registered User
Mar 6, 2015
5,104
5,907
6
SvechniCanesCup2019 said:
11 is hyperbole. Dermott would be the Canes 9th best D without much argument. Same group as Fleury, Bean, and Fox (the latter two I like more).
Click to expand...
He's decidedly better than all three as well as TVR. I'd take him over De Haan moving forward (and said so during FA) but there's not much of a case there due to his lack of experience.
 
Randy Randerson

Randy Randerson

Registered User
Jul 28, 2016
10,637
3,445
Hamilton
SvechniCanesCup2019 said:
11 is hyperbole. Dermott would be the Canes 9th best D without much argument. Same group as Fleury, Bean, and Fox (the latter two I like more).
Click to expand...
I don't know how you'd group those 3 together, 1 has NHL experience and the others don't. Dermott's NHL body of work is significantly better than Fleury's too. I know that Dermott is definitely not a need for Carolina, but I don't get how you don't slot him in clearly above this group with the info we have today
 
NotOpie

NotOpie

"Puck don't lie"
Jun 12, 2006
9,253
17,748
North Carolina
Saint Blue said:
He's decidedly better than all three as well as TVR. I'd take him over De Haan moving forward (and said so during FA) but there's not much of a case there due to his lack of experience.
Click to expand...
I'm guessing you/we will have the opportunity to see just how good Dermott is this season as it is unlikely that the Leafs find an upgrade from an outside source. If he proves better then congrats. BTW, TVR had a vastly superior takeaway/giveaway ratio and similar if not better possession metrics. I'll take our youngsters right now, but am willing to wait and see if Dermott can live up to the hope or hype.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SvechNecas and Unsustainable
AuraSphere

AuraSphere

Registered User
Jun 27, 2012
4,194
2,263
Canes called about Willy, said if it doesn't work out with Toronto, to give them a call and that they'd be interested.

Dubas reported it, but didn't report the team. Now it's actually out there that it was Carolina that made the move. I wonder what they'd be willing to offer. Have to think it'd be Pesce
 
  • Like
Reactions: New Liskeard
Randy Randerson

Randy Randerson

Registered User
Jul 28, 2016
10,637
3,445
Hamilton
NotOpie said:
I'm guessing you/we will have the opportunity to see just how good Dermott is this season as it is unlikely that the Leafs find an upgrade from an outside source. If he proves better then congrats. BTW, TVR had a vastly superior takeaway/giveaway ratio and similar if not better possession metrics. I'll take our youngsters right now, but am willing to wait and see if Dermott can live up to the hope or hype.
Click to expand...
similar but worse possession in a little tougher usage with a little better linemates and less defensive zone starts. No need to spin numbers, TVR is a good bottom pairing dman
 
NotOpie

NotOpie

"Puck don't lie"
Jun 12, 2006
9,253
17,748
North Carolina
Randy Randerson said:
I don't know how you'd group those 3 together, 1 has NHL experience and the others don't. Dermott's NHL body of work is significantly better than Fleury's too. I know that Dermott is definitely not a need for Carolina, but I don't get how you don't slot him in clearly above this group with the info we have today
Click to expand...
Dermott's body of work is about 1/2 the size of Fleury's. Again, Fleury had the better takeaway/giveaway ratio and, anecdotally, was often paired with Faulk on the 2nd pairing. I'm not sure where Dermott was slotted, but there's a pretty good chance that Fleury might have faced a higher level of competition.
 
Randy Randerson

Randy Randerson

Registered User
Jul 28, 2016
10,637
3,445
Hamilton
NotOpie said:
Dermott's body of work is about 1/2 the size of Fleury's. Again, Fleury had the better takeaway/giveaway ratio and, anecdotally, was often paired with Faulk on the 2nd pairing. I'm not sure where Dermott was slotted, but there's a pretty good chance that Fleury might have faced a higher level of competition.
Click to expand...
Dermott played 3rd pairing with Polak (substantially worse than Faulk, well below replacement level NHL talent) most of the time, both he and TVR faced what you would call 3rd pairing competition (Dermott on the low end of it, TVR on the high end of it)

Dermott's relative possession was also substantially better than TVR's, meaning that his linemates' possession was a lot better while he was on the ice in comparison to TVR's

Dermott is also 6 years younger, so if we're talking trade value this is a landslide in Dermott's favour, who would play over the other today is probably in coinflip territory. And again, that's not a slight, they both did very well against bottom 3rd type competition
 
NotOpie

NotOpie

"Puck don't lie"
Jun 12, 2006
9,253
17,748
North Carolina
Randy Randerson said:
similar but worse possession in a little tougher usage with a little better linemates and less defensive zone starts. No need to spin numbers, TVR is a good bottom pairing dman
Click to expand...
Actually TVR had slightly superior possession metrics and vastly superior giveaway/takeaway metrics. Yes, Dermott had a higher level of d-zone starts in his 37 games compared to TVR's 79 games.

I'm not spinning any numbers, they are what they are. But objectively Dermott is an unproven defender who could slot in anywhere on the bottom 4 of the Leaf's defense. TVR is a proven #5 who can and has slotted higher. We're not going to change each other's minds...you're banking on Dermott's potential this season just like we Canes fans are banking on our NHL defense and the potential we have in Charlotte.

For the record, I like Dermott, I'm just waiting for him to actually prove himself in a full season.
 
Randy Randerson

Randy Randerson

Registered User
Jul 28, 2016
10,637
3,445
Hamilton
NotOpie said:
Actually TVR had slightly superior possession metrics and vastly superior giveaway/takeaway metrics. Yes, Dermott had a higher level of d-zone starts in his 37 games compared to TVR's 79 games.

I'm not spinning any numbers, they are what they are. But objectively Dermott is an unproven defender who could slot in anywhere on the bottom 4 of the Leaf's defense. TVR is a proven #5 who can and has slotted higher. We're not going to change each other's minds...you're banking on Dermott's potential this season just like we Canes fans are banking on our NHL defense and the potential we have in Charlotte.

For the record, I like Dermott, I'm just waiting for him to actually prove himself in a full season.
Click to expand...
I factored in relatives in my original comment, to me they're part of "possession" because effect on team mates is as important as how the team does with you on the ice in my eyes, but if that's not what you intended fair enough

I guess you'd call Dermott unproven, his 53 games of NHL time (incl playoffs) with really good results is getting to the point of being a significant sample. It would be very odd if he all of a sudden turned into something different with the data available

anyway, the Leafs shouldn't be trading away defensemen and the Canes shouldn't be trading for them so it's moot for sure
 
Boom Boom Apathy

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
48,302
97,629
NotOpie said:
Slavin
Pesce
Hamilton
de Haan
Faulk
Van Riemsdyk
Fleury
Bean
McKeown
Martin
Fox
Fora
and maybe Cajkovsky
Click to expand...

Disagree:

Slavin, Pesce, Hamilton, de Hann, Faulk, TVR I'd take right now for sure over Dermott, but I think Dermott will eventually be better than TVR and maybe a couple others. Fleury and Dermott are close right now but I like Dermott better long term.

The rest of the guys aren't better than Dermott right now.

"12th" was clearly hyperbole with the point being the Canes don't have a need for him, but we don't have 11 D men better than Dermott.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Unsustainable and GIN ANTONIC
You must log in or register to reply here.

Ad

Latest posts

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

Top Bottom
-->