GDT: Carolina Panthers part 2: Is Darnold good or not?

[Canes]

What's a QB when we are letting up 30+ every game is he going to tackle the opposing RBs too?

The NFL is a QB driven league. Should we just avoid drafting a franchise QB until the defense doesn't suck anymore, or what exactly is the relevancy of this post?

 

[cptjeff]

The NFL is a QB driven league. Should we just avoid drafting a franchise QB until the defense doesn't suck anymore, or what exactly is the relevancy of this post?

Hey, didn't we have an NFL MVP caliber QB in the middle of his career? Anyone look at what he's been up to lately, how much money he's making in relation to our current QB, that sort of thing?

 

[Canes]

Hey, didn't we have an NFL MVP caliber QB in the middle of his career? Anyone look at what he's been up to lately, how much money he's making in relation to our current QB, that sort of thing?

The franchise definitely did Cam dirty but 2015 was 5 years ago at this point and he was coming off of major surgery/injuries. Still makes no sense to cut him and sign a 20 million dollar bottom tier starter when the rest of your team blows though.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Hey, didn't we have an NFL MVP caliber QB in the middle of his career? Anyone look at what he's been up to lately, how much money he's making in relation to our current QB, that sort of thing?

Meh, he didn't do anything last season so probably not worth keeping.

 

[HisIceness]

Said it before, but that night in Pittsburgh two years ago f***ed over this franchise, they haven't been the same since. The 2015 season was lightning in a bottle. Not that they were setting the world on fire at the time, but they were 6-2 going into that game and were on the verge of back-to-back winning seasons for the first time as a franchise. Back-to-back winning seasons would have been huge.

Now for real, they probably would have ended up as a Wild-Card again but they would have finally gotten some continuity under them. Instead, I saw one too many times last season Luke Kuchely having no choice but to carry the defense on his back, and many a times a shot of him after a TD or something that had that "I'm done, I can't do this anymore" look on his face.

The Panthers are who they are, a mediocre 7-9 franchise that might occasionally make it to a Super Bowl or win a division title but they'll always go right back to 7-9 the next year until proven otherwise. If this franchise couldn't become steady with a franchise MVP QB, a steady linebacker in Thomas Davis, and two hall of famers in Olsen and Kuechly, and possibly another one in CMac, albeit CMac came into the picture late, then it may not be meant to be. It is what it is.

At least our Hockey squad won a Cup and has other deep playoff runs. They also appear to be on the rise at the moment.

 

[Canes]

Meh, he didn't do anything last season so probably not worth keeping.

Yeah and he couldn’t play DB or LB either, no point in having a good QB then. The Panthers were doing good tanking until they did what can only be described as money laundering by signing Teddy f***in’ Bridgewater to a pants-on-head-retarded contract I guess.

 

[WreckingCrew]

Hey, didn't we have an NFL MVP caliber QB in the middle of his career? Anyone look at what he's been up to lately, how much money he's making in relation to our current QB, that sort of thing?

meh, not really...even in his best year he wasn't the best player on the team, he got that award same as all those years Crosby got Conn Smythe over Kessel, Malkin, Murray, etc...reputation/"leadership". Outside of that one year he's barely even hit top 10-15 in most categories. Granted our offensive line has pretty much always sucked, but take away Cam's rushing and he's pretty much an "all the tools but no toolbox" QB, his athleticism made up for deficiencies in decision making. When he played with confidence he could be one of the best, but it was just way to easy to read him and get in his head which neutered that.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

meh, not really...even in his best year he wasn't the best player on the team, he got that award same as all those years Crosby got Conn Smythe over Kessel, Malkin, Murray, etc...reputation/"leadership". Outside of that one year he's barely even hit top 10-15 in most categories. Granted our offensive line has pretty much always sucked, but take away Cam's rushing and he's pretty much an "all the tools but no toolbox" QB, his athleticism made up for deficiencies in decision making. When he played with confidence he could be one of the best, but it was just way to easy to read him and get in his head which neutered that.

lol ok

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I’m not about to hop on the “not the real MVP” train, but I will say just in my own amateur observations that Cam is a runner but not a scrambler. In fact, on passing plays, he’s sometimes as immobile as QBs get (he reminds me of Big Ben the way he just kinda stands there, there’s no “drop” of any amount of steps). I’ve always wondered if that telegraphs anything to defenses - “I am a passer on this play,” “I am a runner on this play”, as opposed to the Vicks, Wilsons, etc. of the world who are always a liability to take off.

Again, not really trying to make a greater point other than what I’ve posted here, but that’s always struck me when watching him.

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

Scrambler means evasive right?

Also, I need to know what NFL teams are (un)acceptable to cheer for. I know well enough to hate Cowboys, Patriots, and Chargers.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

A "scrambler" is a quarterback who is quick to run when the pass doesn't appear to be a good option. Lots of opinions on whether that's good or bad.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Scrambler means evasive right?

Also, I need to know what NFL teams are (un)acceptable to cheer for. I know well enough to hate Cowboys, Patriots, and Chargers.

As a Patriots fan, I can understand hating us. And I can understand hating the Cowboys. But why the Chargers?

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

A "scrambler" is a quarterback who is quick to run when the pass doesn't appear to be a good option. Lots of opinions on whether that's good or bad.

Maybe semantics but that’s the agnostic sense of the word. I don’t think there’s one answer to “is it a good thing or a bad thing”, I think it can be either depending on the player (the same way “aggressive” can be good or bad for a goaltender). Some scramble as a crutch because they’re not very good passers, some turn it into a major weapon (see last year’s league MVP).

My contention is that Cam really isn’t that scrambly. The play dictates whether he passes or runs, but when he drops back to pass he doesn’t move nearly as much. Other guys use their legs as their third or fourth option on every play - Cam to me just doesn’t consider it an option if it’s a true passing play.

Analyzing a game I’m not an expert on and talking out of my ass, but just raising the discussion because I think it’s odd, I can’t think of another guy that does that.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Maybe semantics but that’s the agnostic sense of the word. I don’t think there’s one answer to “is it a good thing or a bad thing”, I think it can be either depending on the player (the same way “aggressive” can be good or bad for a goaltender). Some scramble as a crutch because they’re not very good passers, some turn it into a major weapon (see last year’s league MVP).

My contention is that Cam really isn’t that scrambly. The play dictates whether he passes or runs, but when he drops back to pass he doesn’t move nearly as much. Other guys use their legs as their third or fourth option on every play - Cam to me just doesn’t consider it an option if it’s a true passing play.

Analyzing a game I’m not an expert on and talking out of my ass, but just raising the discussion because I think it’s odd, I can’t think of another guy that does that.

I think it's largely because it was beaten out of him. Every QB coach seems to want the QB to be a passer first, and you look at an RGIII and you see why. Cam has the tools to be a pocket passer, so coaches want him to be a pocket passer first. I seem to recall him running a lot more out of the pocket at Auburn, but that could just be my old brain playing tricks based on footage I saw.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I think it's largely because it was beaten out of him. Every QB coach seems to want the QB to be a passer first, and you look at an RGIII and you see why. Cam has the tools to be a pocket passer, so coaches want him to be a pocket passer first. I seem to recall him running a lot more out of the pocket at Auburn, but that could just be my old brain playing tricks based on footage I saw.

That could be and is a simpler, less galaxy brained, better explanation than mine.

My dumb theory is that he's more Jamal Lewis than Devin Hester. Most of the scramblers in the league are that "91 for agility in Madden" type of QB (Lamar Jackson, Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray who I always want to call Kyrie Irving and I had to Google, Vick in his heyday). Cam is a truck, and because he's more likely to succeed on the run with contact rather than making guys miss, it's better for him to tuck the ball when he's on the move. That basically means once he's moving he's "committed" more or less, and therefore doesn't do it as much since it queues the defense. Even when a slower, less agile guy like Mahomes starts to take off, he still might throw at any time, so teams can't fully commit to stop him. Cam doesn't have a) the on the run arm game OR b) the ability to make guys miss, so if he's running he's gotta tuck.

Again, could be talking out my ass. Football's fun that way, Madden is a good enough simulation that everyone thinks they know what they're talking about.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Maybe semantics but that’s the agnostic sense of the word. I don’t think there’s one answer to “is it a good thing or a bad thing”, I think it can be either depending on the player (the same way “aggressive” can be good or bad for a goaltender). Some scramble as a crutch because they’re not very good passers, some turn it into a major weapon (see last year’s league MVP).

My contention is that Cam really isn’t that scrambly. The play dictates whether he passes or runs, but when he drops back to pass he doesn’t move nearly as much. Other guys use their legs as their third or fourth option on every play - Cam to me just doesn’t consider it an option if it’s a true passing play.

Analyzing a game I’m not an expert on and talking out of my ass, but just raising the discussion because I think it’s odd, I can’t think of another guy that does that.

I've listened to a couple of analysts on podcasts that have pointed out that the Broncos built their game plan around the fact that if it was a passing play, Newton was very little threat to run. I believe they cited several stats that lined up with that for him in general as well.

 

[Canes]

Cam definitely had very good scrambling abilities at one point, especially earlier in his career but he was even better on designed running plays because you knew he would probably be getting the ball and you still couldn't stop him especially in the red zone and 3rd and short.

I think it's largely because it was beaten out of him. Every QB coach seems to want the QB to be a passer first, and you look at an RGIII and you see why. Cam has the tools to be a pocket passer, so coaches want him to be a pocket passer first. I seem to recall him running a lot more out of the pocket at Auburn, but that could just be my old brain playing tricks based on footage I saw.

He definitely did run a lot more in college. It's just the nature of the college game and the type of offense he was running at the time. But he always had good pocket passing skills and the potential to be even better, which is why the Panthers took the gamble and selected him 1st overall. A lot of people don't remember how big a crapshoot the 2011 draft was... Blaine Gabbert was even rumored to be the #1 pick to Carolina at one point. Hurney is pretty terrible at a lot of things but he deserves credit for having the balls to take Newton when and where he did. There were a lot Cam doubters then and even now.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I've listened to a couple of analysts on podcasts that have pointed out that the Broncos built their game plan around the fact that if it was a passing play, Newton was very little threat to run. I believe they cited several stats that lined up with that for him in general as well.

I didn’t know that and I feel very smart now thank you!

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

As a Patriots fan, I can understand hating us. And I can understand hating the Cowboys. But why the Chargers?

Their ownership fu^king over San Diego. Not the players.

You have to realise my knowledge of the game is based on Gridiron Heights from Bleacher Report and Urinating Tree.

And to be fair to Patriots, they run like a well-oiled machine.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Their ownership fu^king over San Diego. Not the players.

You have to realise my knowledge of the game is based on Gridiron Heights from Bleacher Report and Urinating Tree.

And to be fair to Patriots, they run like a well-oiled machine.

Fair enough, I'd much rather them be in SD as well. Otherwise, I just don't think about them too much.

 

[HisIceness]

Scrambler means evasive right?

Also, I need to know what NFL teams are (un)acceptable to cheer for. I know well enough to hate Cowboys, Patriots, and Chargers.

Jets and Giants, they both get undeserved amounts of media attention because of the market they play in good, bad, or mediocre.

Also the Eagles because of how awful their visiting fans are.

 

[Buenos Necas]

To add to the Cam discussion, I definitely agree that he was never a true scrambler. He's just a different breed than pretty much any other "running" QB out there, a true power runner. His style really lends itself to designed runs and option plays, so I agree on the "when it's a passing play, it's a passing play" theory.

I always wished he would be a bit more aggressive about taking off and not hanging in the pocket until the bitter end. It was as if he was making it a point to stay in the pocket and avoid scrambling so he could show he was a pocket QB. And peak of his powers Cam definitely never got his due in that regard. But like others said, he's not the Wilson, Murray, or Lamar type that's smaller in stature and able to utilize their agility and quick burst to be evasive.

He loved to dramatically take a hit just a bit too late to try and get a call, I saw it again this past week against the Seahawks. He also refused to change the way he played. I don't blame him for not wanting to cut out the power element from his game, but his reluctance to avoid contact is why he's always going to be an injury risk as he goes into this latter stage of his career. And he may not be out of the woods with his shoulder since it is arthritic, so it could very well be the thing that goes first.

Anyway, enough rambling. Love to see Cam doing well, hope he can keep it up and stay healthy.

 

[Panthaz89]

meh, not really...even in his best year he wasn't the best player on the team, he got that award same as all those years Crosby got Conn Smythe over Kessel, Malkin, Murray, etc...reputation/"leadership". Outside of that one year he's barely even hit top 10-15 in most categories. Granted our offensive line has pretty much always sucked, but take away Cam's rushing and he's pretty much an "all the tools but no toolbox" QB, his athleticism made up for deficiencies in decision making. When he played with confidence he could be one of the best, but it was just way to easy to read him and get in his head which neutered that.

He carried the offense hard enough for us to get in the playoffs often despite having most of the talent on the other side of the ball. Early on his career we had an offense built to score and he could put up 4k yards and 500+ rushing yearly if we had an offense built for him early he put up those kind of numbers in his ROOKIE season. He was one of the best deep ball passers in the league in his prime and could chuck it a solid 50 yards on the run if needed. Mike Shula ruined the offensive potential that Cam had. Our Oline has been horrendous for most of the years and the run game barring Newton was pretty awful until McCaffrey outside of the MVP season where the Oline was pretty well and of course pre Gross retirement. Also we never had close to a "stacked" receiver core at any point in his career going into his best season literally NO ONE was saying anything about the Panthers weapons except the lack of them.

 

[Panthaz89]

Good thing I had Drake in fantasy against the Panthers 32nd run D

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Rhule is the real deal. The future is bright regardless of what happens this year. Extremely impressed with our young D that on paper should be terrible. They’ve been great the last 2 games.