Confirmed with Link: Carolina Mudcats - New Affiliation for 2016

[NotOpie]

I know this is terrible to admit, but I don't have the attention span for baseball anymore, LOL. I only watch it during the playoffs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The wind-up, the pitch, and .....it's out of here....

That's surprising, how?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Yeah, sure. Try learning an NFL or even college football playbook. Baseball is peanuts compared to that.

 

[NotOpie]

Yeah, sure. Try learning an NFL or even college football playbook. Baseball is peanuts compared to that.

Master the knuckleball before you talk to me like that....

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Master the knuckleball before you talk to me like that....

Practice and repetition does not equal "smarts".

And honestly, nobody really "masters" a knuckleball. Even the best knuckleballers never knew where the ball was going half the time.

 

[NotOpie]

Practice and repetition does not equal "smarts".

And honestly, nobody really "masters" a knuckleball. Even the best knuckleballers never knew where the ball was going half the time.

It's all part of the intellectual superiority of baseball over the remainder of other plebeian sporting endeavors. Mind over matter, good sir!

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

It's all part of the intellectual superiority arrogance of baseball fans over the other plebeian better, more interesting and more complex sporting endeavors.

Fixed it for you.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

it is the thinking mans sport because you spend more time thinking abuot what else you would rather be doing than watching/playing baseball

 

[Vagrant]

There are few sports that are more numerically driven than baseball. One of the things that worries me, however, is the rise in popularity of the shift and how that's changing the sport. Teams using laser pointers to position outfielders just seems to undermine the purity of the game. For whatever reason, baseball seems like it should be exempt from technological advancement unless it's to benefit player safety, which hasn't really been an issue other than comebackers and bean balls which were always an issue. I know it's the players job to make the shift ineffective against them, but it still sucks. It feels like the neutral zone trap.

As far as High A is concerned, the list provided kind of proves my point in a way. So many of those guys listed did what I said, which was either spend a month in High A or no time at all. Some of the high school kids that went 1st overall probably get a more authentic taste of that level, but it's still a half measure. And this is something that I feel like is more prevalent in the past decade than any other time as player development ideology changes. There's a lot to consider there, but it seems like if you want to catch a player for an extended period of time and he's a high profile prospect, you'll need to get him at Low A or AA. High A and AAA are places where most high profile prospects only take a walkthrough.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I fully admit that baseball is a smarter sport than hockey. That's not difficult to grasp if you know both sports well. It's not to say that hockey isn't a pretty sophisticated game in its own right, but come on. Baseball takes almost every strategic decision to a different level of complexity and analysis. It's very enjoyable if you're aware of what's happening, or at least if you're listening to a good analyst who can explain it for you.

That said, it's simply a boring game. That also shouldn't be too difficult to admit. I like the game and I can't watch 3.5 hours of it in a row. Changing pitchers three times per inning, meeting at the mound half a dozen times, calling time before every other pitch to adjust a velcro strap or scratch an itch. It's excruciating.

It's a losing battle, because there are so many people with something to gain by slowing the pace, but I'm a fan of speeding up the pace of ALL sports. Watch a college football game live, it's incredible how long they take to run 60 seconds off the clock. No different than baseball in that respect. I don't know how people can watch that stuff and not feel bored half to death by all the delays. And the NHL is quickly heading in that direction with constant video reviews and delay tactics.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

EDIT: NVM..we've had this debate before.

 

[cptjeff]

I fully admit that baseball is a smarter sport than hockey. That's not difficult to grasp if you know both sports well. It's not to say that hockey isn't a pretty sophisticated game in its own right, but come on. Baseball takes almost every strategic decision to a different level of complexity and analysis. It's very enjoyable if you're aware of what's happening, or at least if you're listening to a good analyst who can explain it for you.

That said, it's simply a boring game. That also shouldn't be too difficult to admit. I like the game and I can't watch 3.5 hours of it in a row. Changing pitchers three times per inning, meeting at the mound half a dozen times, calling time before every other pitch to adjust a velcro strap or scratch an itch. It's excruciating.

It's a losing battle, because there are so many people with something to gain by slowing the pace, but I'm a fan of speeding up the pace of ALL sports. Watch a college football game live, it's incredible how long they take to run 60 seconds off the clock. No different than baseball in that respect. I don't know how people can watch that stuff and not feel bored half to death by all the delays. And the NHL is quickly heading in that direction with constant video reviews and delay tactics.

I think the issue is conscious versus unconscious thought. Baseball has a lot of conscious thought, but not much unconscious thought, which involves far more complex information processing than conscious thought.

Baseball requires more analysis and conscious decision making based on those analytics. Hockey requires far more complex real time decision making. In baseball, managers and stat geeks will look at how the outfield needs to be positioned for a batter or even pitch to pitch, and the pitcher and catcher have to figure out pitch selection, but most of that is slow and conscious decision making. Hockey- positioning yourself on the ice, calculating the velocity and angle of other players, both teammates and opponents, predicting what decisions they're going to make, picking out where and how to pass or shoot, all in real time? It's not conscious decision making like baseball demands, so you don't perceive just how much thinking you're actually doing, but you're actually processing orders of magnitude more information when you're playing hockey. The only part of baseball where you're engaging your brain at a similar level is reading a pitch and hitting it. That's obviously a really important part of the game, but only one player has to do that at a time, and they'll do it for 5 at bats a game, averaging around 25 pitches. That level of information processing is demanded for about 30 seconds a player per game. Hockey players have to do it continually when they're on the ice, and process many more variables than just bat and ball. And everything happens really, really fast. So each player is putting in an average of 15 minutes of really intense mental activity. Basketball has similar dynamics, but often happens at a mild jog, 4 mph. Hockey, everything his happening at 40 mph.

Football is a little weird. Some players have their memorized play and they execute or not with little room for improvisation and reaction, others require a whole hell of a lot of both conscious and unconscious choices. Being a Quarterback is probably the most mentally demanding position in sports. Hockey players are thinking about 12 trajectories and how to react to them, a quarterback is thinking about 22. Being a lineman? You have to memorize and execute. That involves substantial memory, but very little mental processing.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

^ yep, that's mostly how I see it as well. The quick, real-time mental processing required in a fast sport is tremendous.

. Being a lineman? You have to memorize and execute. That involves substantial memory, but very little mental processing.

I'm not sure I completely agree with that. Watch the linemen before a play. They are reading the defense, calling out coverage, etc. They have to react and react as a full unit (along with the running backs and QB) to react to blitzes, stunts, pick up the 2nd guy, knowing when to go off of one guy and onto the next, etc..

Sure, there are some plays where they just have to block one guy right in front of them, but saying they require little mental processing is selling them very short. Not to the level of a QB, safety or Linebacker, but still it's more complex than I think you are giving them credit for.

 

[NotOpie]

Fixed it for you.

Ohhhh, BBA, you have so missed my point.

Arrogance is a code word the less intellectually inclined use to explain that which they don't fully grasp.

And the phrase "....thinking man's game" is a reference to the fan...

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Ohhhh, BBA, you have so missed my point.

Nah, I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to poke at the "thinking man's game" bubble.

Arrogance is a code word the less intellectually inclined use to explain that which they don't fully grasp.

That's exactly how the arrogant try to defend their arrogance. "I'm not arrogant at all, I'm just so much smarter than you"

In all seriousness, this reminds me of a story in one of my first jobs. I shared an office with another new engineer and he was in a group with a bunch of PHDs. He finally got fed up with how they treated him so went to his boss. The boss, who was one of the more arrogant guys I ever met, with a straight face, told the guy, "You have to treat them differently, because they are intellectuals."

And the phrase "....thinking man's game" is a reference to the fan...

I know, but same applies. There is so much time between any real action that you can sit there and go all Rodin on it and try to dissect every minute detail. Although, I'd venture a guess that the lion share of fans are on their phones, looking for another beer or chatting with their buddies and not really "thinking" at all. Last MLB game I was at, I was sure someone around me was going to get hit by a foul ball, since very few were paying any attention to the game.

 

[MovesLikeJagr]

I live right by the stadium.... I've been to maybe 4 games in the last 5 years... two of them being for a work event, and one to see Aroldis Chapman pitch. It's always empty when I drive by the stadium on a game day, and only traffic are people on the side of the road waiting to see fireworks..

 

[tarheelhockey]

I think the issue is conscious versus unconscious thought. Baseball has a lot of conscious thought, but not much unconscious thought, which involves far more complex information processing than conscious thought.

Baseball requires more analysis and conscious decision making based on those analytics. Hockey requires far more complex real time decision making. In baseball, managers and stat geeks will look at how the outfield needs to be positioned for a batter or even pitch to pitch, and the pitcher and catcher have to figure out pitch selection, but most of that is slow and conscious decision making. Hockey- positioning yourself on the ice, calculating the velocity and angle of other players, both teammates and opponents, predicting what decisions they're going to make, picking out where and how to pass or shoot, all in real time? It's not conscious decision making like baseball demands, so you don't perceive just how much thinking you're actually doing, but you're actually processing orders of magnitude more information when you're playing hockey. The only part of baseball where you're engaging your brain at a similar level is reading a pitch and hitting it. That's obviously a really important part of the game, but only one player has to do that at a time, and they'll do it for 5 at bats a game, averaging around 25 pitches. That level of information processing is demanded for about 30 seconds a player per game. Hockey players have to do it continually when they're on the ice, and process many more variables than just bat and ball. And everything happens really, really fast. So each player is putting in an average of 15 minutes of really intense mental activity. Basketball has similar dynamics, but often happens at a mild jog, 4 mph. Hockey, everything his happening at 40 mph.

Football is a little weird. Some players have their memorized play and they execute or not with little room for improvisation and reaction, others require a whole hell of a lot of both conscious and unconscious choices. Being a Quarterback is probably the most mentally demanding position in sports. Hockey players are thinking about 12 trajectories and how to react to them, a quarterback is thinking about 22. Being a lineman? You have to memorize and execute. That involves substantial memory, but very little mental processing.

That's a really interesting way to think about it and I agree with the way you have it broken down.

That said, I meant "smarter sport" more in terms of the fan experience than in terms of players. Baseball players are definitely not using more brain power than hockey players... not even close. Guys like Gretzky and Henrik Sedin have a mental processing capacity that's almost superhuman. I can't think of a baseball player to even compare to them. The best baseball players are simply athletic freaks, stronger and faster than the opponent.

But very little of what we consider "hockey intelligence" translates to the fan perspective. Even from an informed point of view, it's often hard to figure out exactly what the teams are doing on a strategic level -- there are just so many factors beneath the surface which are known only to the players and coaches. Was that lineup change strategic, or due to sudden injury, or due to a guy getting caught up ice and missing his change? Who knows. Did that guy end up wildly out of position on defense because he didn't know what he was doing, or because of a brilliant coaching move? Who knows. Did the goalie get screened because the defenseman just blew it, or because the goalie prefers to handle temporary screens himself? Who knows. We just see the results, which makes it hard to follow in general and nearly impossible to understand fully in real-time. Much of the time the real story stays inside the locker room. So a good deal of the fan experience involves just kicking back and waiting for something interesting to develop out of the chaos.

With baseball, it's just the opposite. It's like observing a game of spades. If you study up enough, you can watch the game at a sort of meta-level. Maybe there's an occasional random circumstance thrown in, but almost everything is very deliberate and plainly observable. There's just no comparable to that in hockey. If you're really deep into watching a baseball game, your brain is constantly moving and you're probably referencing a bunch of contextual resources while you watch. I'm surprised hardcore baseball fans don't stroke out from the stress of it. The problem with baseball is that if you're NOT following it at that intense level, 90% of the game is stab-your-eyes-out boring.

Basketball and football are somewhere in between the two, because the lineup changes are much more deliberate and there is a much more structured flow to those games. That's probably why they have kind of bubbled to the top of American sports culture, in that they can easily engage you at either a very high or a very low level, depending on your preference and commitment.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

I fully admit that baseball is a smarter sport than hockey. That's not difficult to grasp if you know both sports well. It's not to say that hockey isn't a pretty sophisticated game in its own right, but come on. Baseball takes almost every strategic decision to a different level of complexity and analysis. It's very enjoyable if you're aware of what's happening, or at least if you're listening to a good analyst who can explain it for you.

That said, it's simply a boring game. That also shouldn't be too difficult to admit. I like the game and I can't watch 3.5 hours of it in a row. Changing pitchers three times per inning, meeting at the mound half a dozen times, calling time before every other pitch to adjust a velcro strap or scratch an itch. It's excruciating.

It's a losing battle, because there are so many people with something to gain by slowing the pace, but I'm a fan of speeding up the pace of ALL sports. Watch a college football game live, it's incredible how long they take to run 60 seconds off the clock. No different than baseball in that respect. I don't know how people can watch that stuff and not feel bored half to death by all the delays. And the NHL is quickly heading in that direction with constant video reviews and delay tactics.

I think you need to catch a Bulls game and evaluate it with the pace of play changes including the clock between pitches. I don't think any of the regulation games we saw this season (i.e. no extra innings) went past 2.5-2.75 hrs.

Still no word on if it'll be the Rockies or the Brewers. Deadline for all teams to reach PDCs is next Friday.

 

[NotOpie]

#RevelsInHisArrogance