Dreger: Carolina looking for Top 4 Dman - 1st Rounder in play

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Have you watched the leafs lately???

Yes, but contrary to popular belief, the Canes are worse.

 

[is the answer jesus]

Buffalo gives:

- Ristolainen

Carolina gives:

- Martinook ( cap reasons )
- Kuokkanen
- 1st

A Slavin-Risto pairing could be very good. While Risto isnt the best defending D, he has plenty of help from Carolinas forwards. He adds grit and scoring threat for the playoffs. Buffalo get a promising prospect in Kuokkanen who is playing very well in AHL, but wont get a roster-spot up, because Carolina has plenty of forwards. 1st is good for rebuild. Martinook is a dump

Assuming that's Carolina's 1st that's a decent haul for Ristolainen. I may be higher on Kuokkanen than many Sabres fans, but I probably do that deal.

 

[qqaz]

I get that the Hamilton injury is a big blow. But Carolina still has a good looking blueline on paper. Do they really need D help so much that they'll trade a 1st for a rental?

Slavin, Pesce, Gardiner, TVR, Edmundson, Fleury.

Edit: not saying they don't need someone. Just asking Canes fans to explain, because that looks fine enough from the outside to a person who doesn't watch Canes games.

 

[bernmeister]

Lundqvist(50% retained) + Skjei + Pick if needed

for

Mrazek/Reimer (for cap purposes) take your pick. + 1st(lower of 2 picks) + NYR 2nd + Gauthier

gives NYR cap relief, and high quality assets in the upcoming draft and a near ready nhl forward

car a goalie upgrade and top 4 D with term.

rangers would say yes, but Hank says no.
Nothing personal, he wants to stay in NYC.

I heard you guys don't want a G 'since you have prospects you like.

We prefer to deal Geo out of conference if all is = with highest bidder, but if you want to go there, open minded courtesy can be extended.

Correct Skeji/+ for 1st + possible correct add if applicable works fine.

 

[GoldiFox]

Right above your post, you see a 1st for rental Vatanen....and a 1st+2 pieces for Risto...and you decide to make this statement?

Other fans overvaluing their own assets doesn't make Barrie better. The stated price for Vatanen has been a 2nd + prospect and he's a better D than Barrie.

From what I've seen on the Leafs board Barrie has been a tire fire defensively. The Canes don't want a liability. A 2nd pairing of Gardiner-Barrie is not a fun thought and Barrie is not good enough for 1st pair duty or Toronto fans wouldn't be trying to move him for futures in the middle of a Playoff run.

 

[Boxscore]

The Rangers should sell high on DeAngelo if the Canes are willing to deal a 1st rounder for an offensive, TOP-4 D

 

[spockBokk]

I get that the Hamilton injury is a big blow. But Carolina still has a good looking blueline on paper. Do they really need D help so much that they'll trade a 1st for a rental?

Slavin, Pesce, Gardiner, TVR, Edmundson, Fleury.

Edit: not saying they don't need someone. Just asking Canes fans to explain, because that looks fine enough from the outside to a person who doesn't watch Canes games.

Gardiner is not the player he was in TOR and Slavin and Pesce can’t do it by themselves. What they really miss is Hamilton’s puck moving abilities. The top pair playing 23-24 mins a night went from Slavin-Hamilton to Slavin-TVR/Edmundson. The efficiency with which the Canes move up the ice from their D zone has gone down dramatically. Also, Hamilton was key on their first PP unit and scoring well at even strength as well.

Gardiner has mostly been better since Hamilton went down, but he will never be a defensive stalwart and whatever it is, lingering injuries or him not being an RBA system fit, he just looks out of place.

The Edmundson/Fleury 3rd pair is ok, but you can’t really trust them for more than 13-14 mins a night.

Acquiring a top 4 puckmover that can play 20mins a night with Slavin and QB the PP will be key to CAR’s playoff chances I think. I think they should give Jake Bean a shot before making a trade, but what do I know.

 

[Liferleafer]

Other fans overvaluing their own assets doesn't make Barrie better. The stated price for Vatanen has been a 2nd + prospect and he's a better D than Barrie.

From what I've seen on the Leafs board Barrie has been a tire fire defensively. The Canes don't want a liability. A 2nd pairing of Gardiner-Barrie is not a fun thought and Barrie is not good enough for 1st pair duty or Toronto fans wouldn't be trying to move him for futures in the middle of a Playoff run.

Oh i'm not touting Barrie here...i just found it interesting that in a thread full of proposals with D that aren't worth a 1st(+)....it's Barrie that gets quoted.

 

[GoldiFox]

I get that the Hamilton injury is a big blow. But Carolina still has a good looking blueline on paper. Do they really need D help so much that they'll trade a 1st for a rental?

Slavin, Pesce, Gardiner, TVR, Edmundson, Fleury.

Edit: not saying they don't need someone. Just asking Canes fans to explain, because that looks fine enough from the outside to a person who doesn't watch Canes games.

From Brind'Amour's own mouth the Canes run the most aggressive system in the league. It requires defensemen to constantly activate on offense which requires them to have some modicum of offensive talent. TVR, Edmundson, and Fleury are all devoid of offensive ability. Losing Hamilton from the top pair really hamstrung the entire defense in it's ability to support the offense the way it needs to.

Combine that with:

• Jordan Staal being relied on heavily (#2 in 5v5 ice time) and pacing 28 points
• Nino Niederreiter falling back down past earth and straight into offensive hell - he's scoring points at a 5v5 rate 20% lower than Jordan Martinook
• A complete no-show in 2020 from the Canes secondary scorers. Niederreiter (3 points in 15 games), Wallmark (3 points in 15 games), Haula (4 points in 15 games), Dzingle (4 points in 15 games), Foegele (6 points in 16 games), and Necas (7 points in 16 games)

The entire Canes offense has stagnated outside of Svechnikov, Aho, and Teravainen. Much of that starts on the back end.

There is so much wrong with the Canes that I hope they don't use a 1st to try and bandaid the situation. I think this is why you see the Canes reported focus shifting to guys with term rather than rentals.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

The Hamilton injury is the catalyst for this which begs the question: why not just get a rental then? Assuming Doogie comes back next season, why give up more than you need to?

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Seems like Carolina is always looking for dmen even though it weirdly seems like they always trade for/sign dmen. It's very bizzare lol

But I guess the Dougie thing opened a huge spot

 

[spockBokk]

The Hamilton injury is the catalyst for this which begs the question: why not just get a rental then? Assuming Doogie comes back next season, why give up more than you need to?

I agree completely with this. Grab a Vatanen, assuming reasonable price paid, and roll the dice.

However, I do think that a secondary reason for them being interested in the likes of Dumba is due to Hamilton being close to ufa. If they can acquire a guy like Dumba on a reasonable contract, they've insulated themselves from the risk that Hamilton prices himself out of CAR.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Seems like Carolina is always looking for dmen even though it weirdly seems like they always trade for/sign dmen. It's very bizzare lol

But I guess the Dougie thing opened a huge spot

if we had a bottom 3 guy go down, this wouldnt be an issue. We have a ton bottom 3 capable defenders hanging out in Charlotte.
As you mentioned it is our number 1a defenseman went down. That is hard to backfill on many teams.

 

[charliemurphy]

Skjei and Georgiev for Toronto's 1st, Gauthier and one of Bokk, Kuokkanen or Puistola

 

[bernmeister]

Other fans overvaluing their own assets doesn't make Barrie better. The stated price for Vatanen has been a 2nd + prospect and he's a better D than Barrie.

From what I've seen on the Leafs board Barrie has been a tire fire defensively. The Canes don't want a liability. A 2nd pairing of Gardiner-Barrie is not a fun thought and Barrie is not good enough for 1st pair duty or Toronto fans wouldn't be trying to move him for futures in the middle of a Playoff run.

Concur
Barrie has a skill set but as others infer a better skating option makes more sense. D is limited if the backliner has skating limitations, esp going backwards.
Gardiner you are starting to get lucky w/ at the right time but I would not want that contract/player in 4 years.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Josh manson for?

 

[bernmeister]

The Rangers should sell high on DeAngelo if the Canes are willing to deal a 1st rounder for an offensive, TOP-4 D

Agree we should sell high on Dea. However, single late 1st rounder not enuf. Also, as per other threads, despite Hamilton injury, Canes emphasis is on LD in a primary build move. Adequate RD stopgap at reasonable price may be considered.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Skjei and Georgiev for Toronto's 1st, Gauthier and one of Bokk, Kuokkanen or Puistola

three firsts, basically, for Skjei and an unproven goalie?!?!?

 

[Liferleafer]

Josh manson for?

This is the name that popped into my mind as well.

 

[spockBokk]

Skjei and Georgiev for Toronto's 1st, Gauthier and one of Bokk, Kuokkanen or Puistola

That’s a hell no

 

[bernmeister]

The Hamilton injury is the catalyst for this which begs the question: why not just get a rental then? Assuming Doogie comes back next season, why give up more than you need to?

b'c you don't want to waste the season if you don't have to
AND
b'c you may get good value on opportunistic fits on guys with term who are then 'build' moves.

e.g., Skjei, signed long term
Rangers own glut of D prospects emerging + NY needs cap.

 

[bernmeister]

From Brind'Amour's own mouth the Canes run the most aggressive system in the league. It requires defensemen to constantly activate on offense which requires them to have some modicum of offensive talent. TVR, Edmundson, and Fleury are all devoid of offensive ability. Losing Hamilton from the top pair really hamstrung the entire defense in it's ability to support the offense the way it needs to.

Combine that with:

• Jordan Staal being relied on heavily (#2 in 5v5 ice time) and pacing 28 points
• Nino Niederreiter falling back down past earth and straight into offensive hell - he's scoring points at a 5v5 rate 20% lower than Jordan Martinook
• A complete no-show in 2020 from the Canes secondary scorers. Niederreiter (3 points in 15 games), Wallmark (3 points in 15 games), Haula (4 points in 15 games), Dzingle (4 points in 15 games), Foegele (6 points in 16 games), and Necas (7 points in 16 games)

The entire Canes offense has stagnated outside of Svechnikov, Aho, and Teravainen. Much of that starts on the back end.

There is so much wrong with the Canes that I hope they don't use a 1st to try and bandaid the situation. I think this is why you see the Canes reported focus shifting to guys with term rather than rentals.

fully concur
only thing I don't understand is why no willingness to bite on a guy like NY's Strome, who is expiring, but has RFA rights? Even if NY throws in small sweetener, is he not worth a 2nd?
He would not solve all yr problems, and there is no guarantee he performs as well down there as he has up here w/Panarin. However, chemistry is a very fragile and surprising thing, not easy to predict.

At right price, reward = risk.
combo deal w/Skjei

 

[bernmeister]

I agree completely with this. Grab a Vatanen, assuming reasonable price paid, and roll the dice.

However, I do think that a secondary reason for them being interested in the likes of Dumba is due to Hamilton being close to ufa. If they can acquire a guy like Dumba on a reasonable contract, they've insulated themselves from the risk that Hamilton prices himself out of CAR.

vatanen is a big risk as a rental and not what he was 3 yrs ago
don't see NJ discounting too much tho

 

[General Disarray]

They should go after petry

 

[charliemurphy]

three firsts, basically, for Skjei and an unproven goalie?!?!?

lol... that's an awesome take.
Basically 3 1sts for a top 4 D and a starting goalie?!?!?!