Dreger: Carolina looking for Top 4 Dman - 1st Rounder in play

d0rkwing

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Carolina needs a long-term Top 6 center as much as any other team. Lindholm is too good and thus, too expensive for what they’re trying to accomplish here (a 2nd pairing defenseman to go with Slavin, Pesce and Hamilton). Gibson would have to be on the table.
There are two valuations of players: to the team that wants him & to the team that has him. That said, Gibson is Anehim’s backbone. Necas isn’t that for the Canes. Sure, he’s definitely part of their future core, but with the defensive depth & forward talent Carolina has, they’re set up better for long term & immediate success than the Ducks are. Anaheim should absolutely be looking to rebuild and with Gibson signed to a long term deal he’s the foundation the rest of the team should be built around. If done right, they can be back to contention in 2-3 years. If I’m the Canes’ GM I’m looking at how am I going to give my team the best chance at bringing another Championship(s) to Carolina as soon as possible. Heck, maybe the only missing piece *is* Gibson. But you’d best be prepared to pay through the nose for him, because the only reason Anaheim would make that trade was if they got Smaug’s plunder in return. I get that fans are high on their own prospects and say that they’re too expensive to have, but you need to realistically look at what is the team’s goal right now in this moment? It’s absolutely contending for a Stanley Cup. And if it’s *that* important, you sell some future assets to give yourself the best possible chance to win now.
 

MinJaBen

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I assumed he was talking about defenseman coming back, as that’s what this thread is about so I didn’t consider forwards or goalies.

anyone is for sale for a price.

Is Gibson someone Anaheim would move without a big overpayment?

No, probably not. But they are "listening on everyone" if that is to be believed.
 
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RodTheBawd

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There are two valuations of players: to the team that wants him & to the team that has him. That said, Gibson is Anehim’s backbone. Necas isn’t that for the Canes. Sure, he’s definitely part of their future core, but with the defensive depth & forward talent Carolina has, they’re set up better for long term & immediate success than the Ducks are. Anaheim should absolutely be looking to rebuild and with Gibson signed to a long term deal he’s the foundation the rest of the team should be built around. If done right, they can be back to contention in 2-3 years. If I’m the Canes’ GM I’m looking at how am I going to give my team the best chance at bringing another Championship(s) to Carolina as soon as possible. Heck, maybe the only missing piece *is* Gibson. But you’d best be prepared to pay through the nose for him, because the only reason Anaheim would make that trade was if they got Smaug’s plunder in return. I get that fans are high on their own prospects and say that they’re too expensive to have, but you need to realistically look at what is the team’s goal right now in this moment? It’s absolutely contending for a Stanley Cup. And if it’s *that* important, you sell some future assets to give yourself the best possible chance to win now.

Carolina + Gibson - Necas - other pieces doesn't make Carolina a contender in the immediate term.
 
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Big Daddy Cane

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There are two valuations of players: to the team that wants him & to the team that has him. That said, Gibson is Anehim’s backbone. Necas isn’t that for the Canes. Sure, he’s definitely part of their future core, but with the defensive depth & forward talent Carolina has, they’re set up better for long term & immediate success than the Ducks are. Anaheim should absolutely be looking to rebuild and with Gibson signed to a long term deal he’s the foundation the rest of the team should be built around. If done right, they can be back to contention in 2-3 years. If I’m the Canes’ GM I’m looking at how am I going to give my team the best chance at bringing another Championship(s) to Carolina as soon as possible. Heck, maybe the only missing piece *is* Gibson. But you’d best be prepared to pay through the nose for him, because the only reason Anaheim would make that trade was if they got Smaug’s plunder in return. I get that fans are high on their own prospects and say that they’re too expensive to have, but you need to realistically look at what is the team’s goal right now in this moment? It’s absolutely contending for a Stanley Cup. And if it’s *that* important, you sell some future assets to give yourself the best possible chance to win now.

I'm not suggesting that Anaheim should trade Gibson for Necas or even trade Gibson at all. My reply was in response to your question of what Necas costs. Gibson (a high-end player at a position of long-term need with a ton of term left) is the only asset in the Ducks' organization that would definitely convince the Canes to make Necas available. Maybe Zegras qualifies, but who knows how Carolina's scouting staff sees the two. Of course, a lottery winning 1st does it. Please do not misinterpret this as me saying that Necas is worth x, y or z.

To your latter point, Carolina would most likely have to go through 3 of Pittsburgh, Washington, Boston and Tampa to get out of the East. The Canes are a 2nd tier contender at this point. Nothing they could realistically acquire is going to change that. The team 2-3 years from now, when Pittsburgh, Boston and Washington are older, is just as relevant as the team today, if not more so.

That shouldn't stop them from leveraging the depth in the organization to build a stronger team in the short-term. There will be limits: no 1sts for rentals, no overpays for short-term solutions and no core player trades.
 

Chrispy

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Necas is highly unlikely to be going anywhere and not a lot of players cost a Necas these days. If he was a prospect I guess I could almost see it, but he’s already in the Canes lineup performing at a high level. Those guys don’t get traded very often and the players we’re talking about aren’t worth him.

#4 in goal scoring among rookies, and younger than all 3 ahead of him at the moment.

In addition to how young Necas is and his good looking rookie season are 2 additional factors that will make it harder for Carolina to move him:
1) There's a severe lack of RH forwards in Raleigh. Justin Williams and Necas are it. Williams is probably in his final year. Gauthier will likely make the team next year if he's not dealt at the deadline, but trading away one of the two in Raleigh doesn't make sense.
2) Because he didn't burn a year last season, Necas is exempt from the expansion draft.

He's a valuable piece that doesn't require a protection slot and RH forwards are sorely lacking at the NHL level in Carolina right now. Highly doubtful he's moved.
 

bleedgreen

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#4 in goal scoring among rookies, and younger than all 3 ahead of him at the moment.

In addition to how young Necas is and his good looking rookie season are 2 additional factors that will make it harder for Carolina to move him:
1) There's a severe lack of RH forwards in Raleigh. Justin Williams and Necas are it. Williams is probably in his final year. Gauthier will likely make the team next year if he's not dealt at the deadline, but trading away one of the two in Raleigh doesn't make sense.
2) Because he didn't burn a year last season, Necas is exempt from the expansion draft.

He's a valuable piece that doesn't require a protection slot and RH forwards are sorely lacking at the NHL level in Carolina right now. Highly doubtful he's moved.
I’m actually surprised other teams fans are asking for him, it’s so obvious where his value is. You know your dman ain’t worth that. It’s the deadline, and we all get delusions of grandeur around this time of year so I get to some extent wishing. But let’s be reality.

I’m sure one of the firsts is in play for the right guy. Take it and run.
 

bleedgreen

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Carolina's D depth is confusing.
It’s deceptive. It isn’t what people thought it is. Moving both Faulk and CDH created a lack of grittiness and leadership that Gardiner and Edmunson can’t quite bring. Fleury has taken a huge step forward and we do still have Bean in the minors but the Canes have two top four defenseman right now with Hamilton hurt. After having five just last season at this time.

Personally I think Fleury is fourth man level at this point, should be given the shot at that role.
 
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GIN ANTONIC

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It’s deceptive. It isn’t what people thought it is. Moving both Faulk and CDH created a lack of grittiness and leadership that Gardiner and Edmunson can’t quite bring. Fleury has taken a huge step forward and we do still have Bean in the minors but the Canes gave two top four defenseman right now with Hamilton hurt. After having five just last season at this time.

Personally I think Fleury is fourth man level at this point, should be given the shot at that role.

TVR hasn’t looked as good this year coming back from injury.

Hamilton was a top 3 defensman in the league before getting injured and is obviously a giant hole that can’t be filled internally.

Gardiner hasn’t lived up to expectations and has been inconsistent. Not saying Faulk is having a great season but he hasn’t gelled with Pesce as hoped.

Edmundson started the year strong but is showing that he can’t really play more than bottom pairing.

Fleury has improved as you mentioned but he is still limited so as of right now it’s Slavs and Pesce holding down the fort and weathering this storm of bad luck, injuries and inconsistent play. Need to make a move to shore things up on the back end but more importantly at least one of Gardiner, TVR or Edmundson need to step up big time down the stretch.
 

d0rkwing

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I'm not suggesting that Anaheim should trade Gibson for Necas or even trade Gibson at all. My reply was in response to your question of what Necas costs. Gibson (a high-end player at a position of long-term need with a ton of term left) is the only asset in the Ducks' organization that would definitely convince the Canes to make Necas available. Maybe Zegras qualifies, but who knows how Carolina's scouting staff sees the two. Of course, a lottery winning 1st does it. Please do not misinterpret this as me saying that Necas is worth x, y or z.

To your latter point, Carolina would most likely have to go through 3 of Pittsburgh, Washington, Boston and Tampa to get out of the East. The Canes are a 2nd tier contender at this point. Nothing they could realistically acquire is going to change that. The team 2-3 years from now, when Pittsburgh, Boston and Washington are older, is just as relevant as the team today, if not more so.

That shouldn't stop them from leveraging the depth in the organization to build a stronger team in the short-term. There will be limits: no 1sts for rentals, no overpays for short-term solutions and no core player trades.
I really appreciate you taking the time to explain your position rather than hitting me with a “gross, no” or “wow that’s terrible, no way” like some posters would. Admittedly I haven’t been watching the Canes that closely this year so the perspective of someone with a finger on the pulse of the team is appreciated. Thanks!
 

GIN ANTONIC

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I really appreciate you taking the time to explain your position rather than hitting me with a “gross, no” or “wow that’s terrible, no way” like some posters would. Admittedly I haven’t been watching the Canes that closely this year so the perspective of someone with a finger on the pulse of the team is appreciated. Thanks!

Necas just oozes talent and skill. Amazing skater and can control the play when the puck is on his stick. Also a wicked shot to go along with it. Hopefully future no 1 or 2 center for us for a long time and as a right hand shot is something we sorely need.

Given his age and contract status/years of control, It would have to be some serious overpayment to fill an even greater hole on the Canes for us to consider moving him
 

SaskCanesFan

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Carolina needs an impact defenseman with term which there really is not any available at the moment. I doubt Carolina moves their 1st unless a good-great defenseman gets on the trade market

I don't get the Canes going after an impact defenseman with term, unless they aren't planning on signing Hamilton after next season. There's only so much cap space and roster spots available.
 

oooooooooohCanada

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A rental Barrie is worth a mid-late 2nd. Nobody is paying a 1st for him. Especially not the Canes - can you imagine a Gardiner-Barrie 2nd pair? Yikes.

I'd take Vatanen over Barrie 8 days a week and NJ is reportedly not getting a 1st for him either.

I think you're very wrong that Barrie at 2.75m is worth a mid-late 2nd. It'd be a minimum a 2nd+good prospect, or a 1st straight up. He's been near a point per game under Keefe / on the top PP unit.
 

StormCast

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Necas is highly unlikely to be going anywhere and not a lot of players cost a Necas these days. If he was a prospect I guess I could almost see it, but he’s already in the Canes lineup performing at a high level. Those guys don’t get traded very often and the players we’re talking about aren’t worth him.
And like Aho, he'll eventually be eased in at C and his is the only RHS among the F's outside of whatever time Williams has left. He's a dynamic skater and playmaker and is figuring out how to be more defensively responsible and is now more willing and effective battling for loose pucks. He's not going anywhere.
 
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Rubi

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They'll need to give up more than a late 1st rounder to get a legit top 4 d-man with term. Carolina's GM is living in a fantasy world if he thinks that's all it will take.
 

Cardiac Jerks

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I think you're very wrong that Barrie at 2.75m is worth a mid-late 2nd. It'd be a minimum a 2nd+good prospect, or a 1st straight up. He's been near a point per game under Keefe / on the top PP unit.

Then please tell us why he would be made available for futures when the leafs are fighting for a playoff spot and trying to win right now?
 

Liferleafer

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Then please tell us why he would be made available for futures when the leafs are fighting for a playoff spot and trying to win right now?
I'll give you an honest answer, he would only be moved in a deal in which a Dman comes back that plays a different style (more defensive)...OR, if we get to the deadline and it looks like we may not make it? Then maybe they deal him to get back some assets.
 

GoldiFox

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They'll need to give up more than a late 1st rounder to get a legit top 4 d-man with term. Carolina's GM is living in a fantasy world if he thinks that's all it will take.

1) Carolina's 1st round pick is currently #15 - certainly not a "late 1st"
2) Literally nowhere does this say that the offer is only one 1st. The offer could be 1st+++ for the right return. There is a large range of value in "top-4 D with term". The Canes have put a ~#15-20 1st round pick in a deep Draft in play. That is a fairly rare asset to acquire at this time of year.
 

bleedgreen

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They'll need to give up more than a late 1st rounder to get a legit top 4 d-man with term. Carolina's GM is living in a fantasy world if he thinks that's all it will take.
Sure. No one thinks that’ll be all it takes, but we have a pretty highly rated prospect group to add from so....

Necas is a pipe dream for anyone selling a top 4 d, even with term. Do we have any examples of that happening? Someone where Necas is at going for a top 4 with D? I feel any example would fall pretty far short of what Necas is. I have no idea where people are getting Necas. If it was actually that expensive they would just go after a different D. They don’t “need” a specific guy that badly. Hamilton is coming back. Someone who solidifies the group of Slavin/Pesce/Hamilton. It could be the fourth best guy of that group.

You don’t trade Necas for that.
 
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Boom Boom Apathy

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They'll need to give up more than a late 1st rounder to get a legit top 4 d-man with term. Carolina's GM is living in a fantasy world if he thinks that's all it will take.
Fan on HF saying an actual GM is living in a fantasy world, when the fan has no clue what said GM is truly offering. How cute.
 
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