TSN: Carolina interested in Kapanen

[GoldiFox]

I would rather trade Nylander. The team hasn't even won a game since he came back, doesn't even look 100% interested since that big signing... I know I will get flamed for this, but I much prefer Kappy over Nylander. Say what you want! =)

Good point. With all the number projecting going around is it worth pointing out that Nylander is on pace for 20-30 points?

I guess the Canes should just wait out the year and see how Toronto feels about where Nylander ends up. Maybe Babcock will prefer Kapanen at the end of the day.

 

[GoldiFox]

Funny thing, Aho and Teuvo has also proven my hypothesis right that they would be scoring at around the same rate as Kappy if given the same opportunity considering Aho scored 49 EV points last year while Teuvo scored about 44 which is around the same pace you projected Kap to be IF he didn't have Matthews.

Kap was projected at 41 ES points (7 points in 14 games while Matthews injured). Justin Williams had 39 last year. So he is a Williams-calibre winger. Not worth anything close to Pesce. We cracked the case.

 

[lebdafor norris]

Kap was projected at 41 ES points (7 points in 14 games while Matthews injured). Justin Williams had 39 last year. So he is a Williams-calibre winger. Not worth anything close to Pesce. We cracked the case.

So Aho is only worth 10 more points than Williams then? Good to know, your flawed system of evaluating player is quite illogical sir.

EDIT: Just realized that Williams scored 51 points last year, clearly his still productive but he doesn't have as much value due to age.

 

[Paris in Flames]

I would rather trade Nylander. The team hasn't even won a game since he came back, doesn't even look 100% interested since that big signing... I know I will get flamed for this, but I much prefer Kappy over Nylander. Say what you want! =)

Yeah. I mean shit. It's almost like he missed training camp, preseason and 30 games.

 

[zeke]

It's quite amazing to watch.

If they don't win the Cup this season with 12 franchise players it's going to be quite embarrassing.

Wait a sec - you think Brett Pesce is a franchise player?

 

[BB88]

Let's say Carolina trades Pesce for Kapanen, who are they then trading for that high end forward they need?

Wait a sec - you think Brett Pesce is a franchise player?

Nowhere did I mention that, but I'm sure you with your numbers can create 12 franchise players for Toronto, I may be even underrating that number.

It's good to see no Leafs players get overhyped.

 

[zeke]

Nowhere did I mention that,

you didn't?

well, that's interesting, because no leafs fan called kappy a franchise player, either. that was you.

 

[lebdafor norris]

Kap was projected at 41 ES points (7 points in 14 games while Matthews injured). Justin Williams had 39 last year. So he is a Williams-calibre winger. Not worth anything close to Pesce. We cracked the case.

So a 22 year old, 50 point winger (your words BTW) who has a pretty solid 2 way game and still has room to improve is not even close to what Pesce is worth? Well at least you're not underrating Kapanen anymore.

 

[BB88]

you didn't?

well, that's interesting, because no leafs fan called kappy a franchise player, either. that was you.

I'm not the one hyping Kapanen here like he was one.

The guy at 22y has 1 22 point season in the NHL and he's a game changer now.

 

[GoldiFox]

So a 22 year old, 50 point winger (your words BTW) who has a pretty solid 2 way game and still has room to improve is not even close to what Pesce is worth? Well at least you're not underrating Kapanen anymore.

Teravainen is only 1.5 years older and a 64 point player. He isn’t worth Pesce either.

 

[StormCast]

are you challenging fellow Canes fans to demonstrate their first person scouting examples of what Kappy looks like away from Matthews? or is it just leafs fans that have to do that?

I'm simply actually you to back up your own words about how Pesce "looked" without Slavin. That implies you have an observation to share. So?

 

[HOTD]

No Canes fan would trade Pesce for Kapanen. Kapanen isn’t worth close to that value. The burden isn’t on me to prove that Pesce is x or y. I’m just laying out the objective reasoning why Kapanen is insufficient.

44 points doesn’t excite anyone. Just because the rest of the Canes outside Aho were bad last year doesn’t make a 44 point winger more valuable.

Now I’ve heard from Leafs fans argue today that Kapanen is better than all of Svechnikov, Tarasenko, and ROR this year. The lols.

Why has Nylander only put up 2 assists in 5 GP? Struggling to produce away from Matthews? I’ve almost as if Matthews is an incredible Center that elevates his linemates.

Do you really have to ask why a guy who missed training camp, preseason and a quarter of the season is off to a slow start? Are you saying Nylander is not a point producer? This is funny.

 

[Trapper]

So Carolina is interested in Kapanen as per the title.
Does anyone know how interested and what they offered if they even did?

Just trying to avoid 35 pages of my Pesce is bigger than yours and see if there is anything concrete.

 

[zeke]

I'm simply actually you to back up your own words about how Pesce "looked" without Slavin. That implies you have an observation to share. So?

OK.

Spot the difference at ES

15/16: C+ qoc, -1.4cfrel, +1.1xgfrel (6.0% of ES toi with Slavin)
16/17: A- qoc, +4.6cfrel, +7.1xgfrel (70.5% of ES toi with Slavin)
17/18: A- qoc, +0.2cfrel, +2.2xgfrel (76.2% of ES toi with Slavin)
18/19: B+ qoc, -7.4cfrel, -0.5xgfrel (25.3% of ES toi with Slavin)

As a rookie, he didn't play with Slavin at all, and did ok in bottom pair usage. Nothing great, but he held his own down there.

In years 2 and 3, he played almost all of his time with Slavin, and played well in legit (though not extreme) top pair usage.

In year 4, he's played mostly without Slavin, and has struggled badly in 2nd pair usage.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

year 4, he's played mostly without Slavin, and has struggled badly in 2nd pair usage.

Pesce was used with an off hand tvr or mediocre hadyn fleury with the 'canes rotating tire fire of a 3rd line, which is where most of the hit to his numbers come from. But he did not look as good away from Slavin as with him.

 

[StormCast]

OK.

Spot the difference at ES

15/16: C+ qoc, -1.4cfrel, +1.1xgfrel (6.0% of ES toi with Slavin)
16/17: A- qoc, +4.6cfrel, +7.1xgfrel (70.5% of ES toi with Slavin)
17/18: A- qoc, +0.2cfrel, +2.2xgfrel (76.2% of ES toi with Slavin)
18/19: B+ qoc, -7.4cfrel, -0.5xgfrel (25.3% of ES toi with Slavin)

As a rookie, he didn't play with Slavin at all, and did ok in bottom pair usage. Nothing great, but he held his own down there.

In years 2 and 3, he played almost all of his time with Slavin, and played well in legit (though not extreme) top pair usage.

In year 4, he's played mostly without Slavin, and has struggled badly in 2nd pair usage.

Swell but not what I asked. You stated how he "looked" without Slavin. So, metrics aside, how has he "looked?" Oh that's right...like most of the Pesce "experts" here you haven't really seen him play. It was obvious from the start but you could have saved the bandwidth by just admitting it instead of floating your stale, pretzel logic.

Pesce was used with an off hand tvr or mediocre hadyn fleury with the 'canes rotating tire fire of a 3rd line, which is where most of the hit to his numbers come from. But he did not look as good away from Slavin as with him.

And the point these guys keep missing is how we would look next to Rielly instead of Hainsey, who we are all familiar with? The answer is damn good but his name doesn't have the catchet the fan boys insist on so they just wing it.

 

[zeke]

Swell but not what I asked. You stated how he "looked" without Slavin. So, metrics aside, how has he "looked?" Oh that's right...like most of the Pesce "experts" here you haven't really seen him play. It was obvious from the start but you could have saved the bandwidth by just admitting it instead of floating your stale, pretzel logic.

which is why I skipped that part, and asked you why you only demand in person scouting reports from leafs fans, but are fine with canes fans using simple points stats to make their arguments.

 

[StormCast]

which is why I skipped that part, and asked you why you only demand in person scouting reports from leafs fans, but are fine with canes fans using simple points stats to make their arguments.

It's all in how you express your opinion. If a Canes fan stated how Kapanen "looked" and cited only stats, then it's worthy of the same criticism you rightly got.

Kapanen has a real good future based on early returns but the hyperbole, lack of context and stat extrapolations here are at times laughable.

 

[Jerkob Slavin]

...Gotta pay the price if you want a difference maker.

And at least with Tank we actually get a difference maker.

 

[zeke]

It's all in how you express your opinion. If a Canes fan stated how Kapanen "looked" and cited only stats, then it's worthy of the same criticism you rightly got.

Ah, so your problem is that I used the less-decisive word "looked worse", instead of just flat out saying that he was worse, like the canes fans did.

 

[StormCast]

Ah, so your problem is that I used the less-decisive word "looked worse", instead of just flat out saying that he was worse, like the canes fans did.

Not exactly. Your wording implied your take on Pesce was based on observation, as you did with Kap, while it clearly wasn't. It was your problem, I just pointed it out.

What Finlandia provided was context and insight, to help interpret the stats, that you could have only gotten from watching Pesce play. That's where your argument crumbled because you lack an important source of knowledge.

 

[justafan22]

Can both teams just trade a 2nd + 5th for TVR instead?

 

[GoldiFox]

OK.

Spot the difference at ES

15/16: C+ qoc, -1.4cfrel, +1.1xgfrel (6.0% of ES toi with Slavin)
16/17: A- qoc, +4.6cfrel, +7.1xgfrel (70.5% of ES toi with Slavin)
17/18: A- qoc, +0.2cfrel, +2.2xgfrel (76.2% of ES toi with Slavin)
18/19: B+ qoc, -7.4cfrel, -0.5xgfrel (25.3% of ES toi with Slavin)

As a rookie, he didn't play with Slavin at all, and did ok in bottom pair usage. Nothing great, but he held his own down there.

In years 2 and 3, he played almost all of his time with Slavin, and played well in legit (though not extreme) top pair usage.

In year 4, he's played mostly without Slavin, and has struggled badly in 2nd pair usage.

At absolutely no point this year has Pesce been on the 2nd pair. Rod refuses to break up De Haan and Faulk.

But that statement is par for the course for this thread. Most here probably haven’t watched Pesce for more than 2 games this year. Seem pretty confident in ignorance, though.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

So Carolina is interested in Kapanen as per the title.
Does anyone know how interested and what they offered if they even did?

Just trying to avoid 35 pages of my Pesce is bigger than yours and see if there is anything concrete.

Carolina discussed Kapanen internally. That's the story. It's the Leafs, so it's a big deal.

The extent of the interest is unknown. LeBrun did clarify the following day that the Canes discussed other players too. No formal offer has been presented at this point.

 

[Trapper]

Carolina discussed Kapanen internally. That's the story. It's the Leafs, so it's a big deal.

The extent of the interest is unknown. LeBrun did clarify the following day that the Canes discussed other players too. No formal offer has been presented at this point.

Appreciate the update. That's quality through whatever the rest is.
If Carolina is interested in added a scoring forward, I'm sure they are doing their due diligence around the league.