Proposal: Carolina - Edmonton

[Joey Moss]

Would prefer RNH to Rask at same cap.. would do the deal for the cap savings and getting a solid replacement.

 

[Joey Moss]

So then is Draisaitl on McDavid's wing only like a PP thing then? If they are dead set on keeping LD at 2C, then either RNH would have to be 3C by default, or play wing himself. Or am I missing something?

Currently..

Maroon - McD - Drai
Lucic - RNH - Slepyshev/Puljujarvi
Jokinen - Strome - Slepy/Pulju

or

Maroon - McD - Strome
Lucic - Draisaitl - Slepy
Jokinen - Nuge - Pulju

(Some people feel Nuge on RW would be a solid option, but I would think McLellan prefers to keep RNH at center)

With this deal it would be exact same except for I would imagine Rask stays at center.. 2nd or 3rd line depending on if Drai is wing. Lots of options.

Point is, if we're trading RNH it's ideally for a cheaper center.

 

[La Bamba]

I'd rather keep Nuge than see him get Eberle'd

 

[48g90a138pts]

So then is Draisaitl on McDavid's wing only like a PP thing then? If they are dead set on keeping LD at 2C, then either RNH would have to be 3C by default, or play wing himself. Or am I missing something?

Tough to say if McLellen will start the year with Draisaitl on McDavid's wing. I think he wants him running his own line but Draisaitl prefers to be with McDavid.

If RNH ends up playing 3rd C, 50 points is still possible. Spreading out the offense will make it extra hard for opponents to defend against us.

It's intriguing, the possibility of Nuge playing wing with Connor. Not sure I'm a fan of it though, but intriguing never the less.

The two ways I look at this trade.

If the Hurricanes are the aggressor a second round instead of the 4th.

If the Oilers are the ones initiating the trade then the original proposal is about in line and i'd accept it.

I'm excited to see RNH play this year, really hoping for a career year. But playing third fiddle will make it hard to put up big numbers unless he plays wing with either McDavid or Draisaitl.

 

[Homesick]

So then is Draisaitl on McDavid's wing only like a PP thing then? If they are dead set on keeping LD at 2C, then either RNH would have to be 3C by default, or play wing himself. Or am I missing something?

Funny thing is that Draisaitl actually took a hell of a lot more draws than McDavid. Just the game day rosters would always have it as Maroon-McDavid-Draisaitl. I think those two just work wherever they need to be to suceed

 

[McMetal]

Rask is good, but RNH is an upgrade, so good deal for Carolina since they really do need a high end C. Oilers downgrade in talent but save cap space, and I'm not sure it's going to be smart for them to wait until next summer when everybody will know their backs are at the wall to try to sell RNH. As a neutral fan I'd do it.

 

[GoldiFox]

So then is Draisaitl on McDavid's wing only like a PP thing then? If they are dead set on keeping LD at 2C, then either RNH would have to be 3C by default, or play wing himself. Or am I missing something?

Draisaitl's ES scoring rate at Center (away from McDavid) is 1.80 P/60 (down from 2.24 P/60 with McDavid). Jordan Staal produced at a higher rate last year that Draisaitl (the 2C - no McDavid version) with 1.90 P/60.

Here's a good piece from OilersNation: https://oilersnation.com/2017/06/08...e-about-draisaitls-numbers-away-from-mcdavid/

When Edmonton fans say that they hope RNH gets put on McDavid's wing to boost his trade value, they aren't too far off from describing Draisaitl last year. It would actually be a pretty good strategy.

 

[VainGretzky]

Wow a proposal that when I clicked on it did not make me cringe . If they do move RNH next year it would be in this range.

 

[biturbo19]

I would think the add would be on the other side given the salary constraints that Edmonton will be facing in the future.

I also don't know if there is much of a skill gap. I'm a big RNH fan but Rask's production has been very impressive.

Yeah. I'd be inclined to agree with this. The Oilers ought to be the ones adding on a Rask/RNH swap given the respective contract values. They're both roughly ~40-50pt players in a 2nd line Center role. Rask has more versatility and seems like a better fit though, especially if you're going to push them even further down the lineup as a part time 3C behind McDavid/Draisaitl.

I could see RNH finding a nice fit in Carolina as a de facto #1 offensive Center, with Jordan Staal as the defensive stud #2 counterpunch. Probably one of the better potential fits for his skillset.

A deal like this could actually work for both teams, but unless Edmonton are adding, i can't see Carolina being enticed to try it. They'd be taking on more "risk" in hoping RNH works out, as well as quite a bit more salary for a comparable calibre player. Probably adding more than a 4th too.

 

[zar]

I feel like Skinner and RNH would compliment each other quite well.

I agree.

Personally, I feel based on what we have seen from both players over the past 2 years, this is a fair deal. Although I like the upside a bit more from RNH... the cap saving for the Oilers would be very important.

That being said, I don't see RNH slipping any further down the production scale... if the Oilers hang on to him for a bit longer they might be able to get a better return. A 55-60 point centerman who was a former 1OA should garner a better return as the contract become a mute point. Some will say the 1OA means nothing at this point... I tend to disagree if the player shows some glimpses of being one of the top players from his draft class.

Anyways... props to the OP and both sides of the fan bases for a civil thread discussion... now how do we get Slavin or Faulk again? Kidding.

 

[Dieseloil]

So then is Draisaitl on McDavid's wing only like a PP thing then? If they are dead set on keeping LD at 2C, then either RNH would have to be 3C by default, or play wing himself. Or am I missing something?

Leon is a versatile player, he will do both, and Nugent-Hopkins will play 2C sometimes and 3C sometimes. Leon can play all 3 positions i would think. Don't think RNH will play wing, could be wrong.

 

[QJL]

Outsider fan saying Rask is a better player than RNH. No way I'd do this deal if I were the Canes.

 

[Roboturner913]

Outsider fan saying Rask is a better player than RNH. No way I'd do this deal if I were the Canes.

Counter that by saying I'm a Canes fan who says RNH is a better player than Rask, if for no other reason than he is a better skater. Speed counts for a lot in this league. Is he currently $2 million better? That's the question.

On paper, RNH would make a great center for Skinner because of his speed. It would be interesting to see those two play together.

 

[major major]

Talent gap? More like Edmonton retains $2m and trade them straight up.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Talent gap? More like Edmonton retains $2m and trade them straight up.

There's no point to this deal at all if Edmonton retains. Particularly a huge amount like that.

 

[shoop]

There's no point to this deal at all if Edmonton retains. Particularly a huge amount like that.

Edmonton retaining $2m on RNH for Rask is crazy. Rask + $2m retained is the same $6m cap hit that Nuge has. So the Oilers give up the better player for zero cap relief but an extra year on Rask's deal?

The Oilers are set at 2C. They didn't give Drai $8.5m to play right wing.

Much better to trade Nuge for a 3C on a much friendlier cap hit and balance out the deal with prospects and/or picks.

 

[major major]

There's no point to this deal at all if Edmonton retains. Particularly a huge amount like that.

Exactly, no point in the deal for Edmonton if it's balanced value/cap hit.

Edmonton needs to target a player from a team like Detroit that can take on salary, or accept an actual 3C that is well below Rask's level. Getting a cheaper version of RNH is unlikely to happen.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Exactly, no point in the deal for Edmonton if it's balanced value/cap hit.

Edmonton needs to target a player from a team like Detroit that can take on salary, or accept an actual 3C that is well below Rask's level. Getting a cheaper version of RNH is unlikely to happen.

Trouble is 1) what in the heck would Detroit offer that is worth Edmonton's time and 2) an actual 3C doesn't come close to worth RNH unless there's sizeable additions.

 

[CheMxDawG]

Lots of "quick check of hockeydb" replies in here. I'm not going to trash Rask for the sake of making my own argument, but it'd take a lot of convincing to get me to believe that RNH is not the superior player, in almost all aspects. I do like Rask a lot, particularly on his contract, and if he was more consistent, which he still has the potential to be, I wouldn't even entertain the swap. But give RNH the same opportunity that Rask has had and I think he makes a greater impact on a nightly basis.

I don't see where RNH is superior in 'almost' all aspects. Seriously, his peak was 8 points more than Rask's, and his defensive numbers are similar but still lower than Rask's.

I don't mean to blame the goalie, but let's look at RNH with Talbot vs Rask with Wardo and compare.

I wouldn't trade Rask for RNH, let alone add to it. This trade is more lateral than anything. Why are we adding to get a more expensive Rask?

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I don't see where RNH is superior in 'almost' all aspects. Seriously, his peak was 8 points more than Rask's, and his defensive numbers are similar but still lower than Rask's.

I don't mean to blame the goalie, but let's look at RNH with Talbot vs Rask with Wardo and compare.

I wouldn't trade Rask for RNH, let alone add to it. This trade is more lateral than anything. Why are we adding to get a more expensive Rask?

That's always the trouble in Edmonton-Carolina threads. Hurricane fans seem to have all kinds of time for RNH but don't want to give up anything of worth to get him.

Rask is at least in that grey area that both sides would think about. At least no one has brought up Draisaitl or Faulk yet...

 

[GoldiFox]

That's always the trouble in Edmonton-Carolina threads. Hurricane fans seem to have all kinds of time for RNH but don't want to give up anything of worth to get him.

Rask is at least in that grey area that both sides would think about. At least no one has brought up Draisaitl or Faulk yet...

If it is futures Edmonton wants then I think you could pick any two on the roster not names Necas for RNH. For example Bean + Nic Roy.

If it is a top-4 D you are looking for then RNH just isn't enough to move the needle. Slavin, Faulk, Pesce, and Hanifin are worth a lot more to the Canes right now than to other teams. If Fleury/Bean prove they can step into a top-4 role that might change.

 

[major major]

Trouble is 1) what in the heck would Detroit offer that is worth Edmonton's time and 2) an actual 3C doesn't come close to worth RNH unless there's sizeable additions.

So again, you want a center that is similar ability to RNH but costs much less. What's in it for the other team?

 

[Mr Positive]

So again, you want a center that is similar ability to RNH but costs much less. What's in it for the other team?

like the Canes fans said in this thread, they feel that RNH is a bit of an upgrade, and that Rask has had some problem clicking with Skinner. As for the reasoning, the Canes are known as having good defense, goaltending and wingers. They should be on the lookout for centers, and there are few like RNH that become available.

I don't watch Rask enough to know if you are right that Rask is basically equal to RNH. I will say that in principle, if we are trading RNH it would be smart to offer us a lesser center signed for a lower number, and for long term. In that situation, there would be no need to add, just like in the Eberle for Strome trade.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

So again, you want a center that is similar ability to RNH but costs much less. What's in it for the other team?

The knowledge that RNH has 55-60 point upside on his resume and three 50+ point seasons. The likes of Rask, Teravainen, Danault, Dylan Strome, Jarnkrok, and the half dozen or so other young centres mentioned on this board as possible pieces going back for RNH could maybe get there, but they're getting a virtual surefire 50 point centre in RNH in a standard year, particularly in a place like Carolina that already has their tough minutes defensive zone starts guy in Staal. Freeing up RNH to create offensively is a mandate from Edmonton's coaching staff this season.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

If it is futures Edmonton wants then I think you could pick any two on the roster not names Necas for RNH. For example Bean + Nic Roy.

If it is a top-4 D you are looking for then RNH just isn't enough to move the needle. Slavin, Faulk, Pesce, and Hanifin are worth a lot more to the Canes right now than to other teams. If Fleury/Bean prove they can step into a top-4 role that might change.

I'd be willing to put money down that RNH is not being moved for futures. For a team that spent years wandering the wilderness before arriving on-scene with the big boys last season, moving a top 6 C for magic beans - respectfully - would be a massive letdown.