Carol Vadnais

[eco's bones]

Former Ranger defenseman Carol Vadnais died today from cancer at the age of 68.

He was involved in maybe the most famous trade in Rangers history that sent Brad Park and Jean Ratelle to the Boston Bruins and returning Vadnias and Phil Esposito to the Rangers. It worked out a bit better for the Bruins than it did for the Rangers though neither team was to win a Stanley Cup with any of the players mentioned above.

Vadnais played for 5 NHL teams over the course of his career. The Montreal Canadiens--the Oakland later California Golden Seals, the Boston Bruins, the Rangers and at the very tail end of his career the New Jersey Devils. He played 7 years for the Rangers. After his playing career he was a Rangers asst. coach for two years. He won two Stanley Cups--one with the Canadiens and one with the Bruins. He played 1087 regular season games--scoring 169 goals--418 assists and 587 points with 1813 penalty minutes. 106 playoff games--10 goals 40 assists 50 points and 187 penalty minutes.

He was a rugged d-man with sometimes a hair trigger temper. He could go over the edge--quite liberal using his stick on other players. I remember him threatening to club a Russian player over the head with his stick one time and a free for all with the Flyers stemming from his cutting up Bobby Clarke (who was quite dirty in his own right). Vadnais (unlike Clarke) would fight his own battles though. He had numerous scraps throughout his career. As his goals and points numbers would attest he was a very talented d-man for his time though. He went to the Stanley Cup finals with the Rangers in 1979.

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[Megustaelhockey]

RIP - he was a very underrated player in his time.

 

[Dagoon44]

Carol was a favorite of mine the minute he joined us.. He came with a air of a winner .. He had poise and confidence and was one nasty sob. With his stick,,, RIP carol and all the best to his family

 

[Giacomin]

A great Ranger.
RIP Carol!

 

[eco's bones]

I remember him mentoring and pairing a lot with Dave Maloney. Vadnais on the right and Maloney on the left. Vadnais pretty much replaced Park--though Park was definitely the better player. When Vadnais was playing for the Seals--he was without doubt the best team on that entire team. The team sucked. He went to the Bruins--to the second pair and won a Cup in 1972--beating the Rangers in the finals. He was good at pretty much everything--could pk--produce on the pwp--he defended well and had a lot of edge and when pissed he could be very unpredictable.

 

[cwede]

he was great but that trade was shock and a heartbreak, to lose Ratelle and Park from the that team that was so good for those early '70's seasons.

Vadnais immediately became a top 3D, played all situations, and was a leader.
And Espo was presence and a force, like Jagr as a Ranger.
And we had that run to the Finals in '79 with JD in net.

 

[bernmeister]

I remember him mentoring and pairing a lot with Dave Maloney. Vadnais on the right and Maloney on the left. Vadnais pretty much replaced Park--though Park was definitely the better player. When Vadnais was playing for the Seals--he was without doubt the best team on that entire team. The team sucked. He went to the Bruins--to the second pair and won a Cup in 1972--beating the Rangers in the finals. He was good at pretty much everything--could pk--produce on the pwp--he defended well and had a lot of edge and when pissed he could be very unpredictable.

Thank you for the classy OP.
It is as I remembered it.
Agree Park def better than Vad and also considered Ratelle better than Espo.

That said, tried not to hold the deal vs him personally.
I was largely indifferent to Espo both playing and post playing days. But Vadnais was innocent. Cat Francis, however ---- let's not go there.


RIP CV, RIP

 

[alkurtz]

I believe that he was the last player who played in the Original Six to be active in the expansion era.

He was also one of the first offensive Dmen that I can recall who was able to make the successful transition to a more defensive Dman as he aged and lost some of his quickness and skill. Something that, say Wayne Redden was never able to do.

A undertated and fine NHL player that I remember fondly.

 

[surf]

He was my idol before Barry Beck..Loved his game

 

[Chief]

Many fond memories of CV as a ranger. R.I.P.

 

[Miamipuck]

Rip....

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Great Ranger.
Still remember the back page of the Daily News, he had a big cigar and a bigger smile. The Rangers had just won and were moving on to the finals.

 

[chosen]

Maybe the dirtiest player i ever saw in a Rangers uniform.

 

[eco's bones]

Maybe the dirtiest player i ever saw in a Rangers uniform.

I'll agree Vadnais was often pretty bad but there is context here. Phil Esposito talked about Vadnais carving his initials with his hockey stick in opponents foreheads. It was a different era and Vadnais wasn't a player who ever backed down. Playing teams like the Flyers--Vadnais could be a very dirty player but Bobby Clarke--even Ed Van Impe IMO were even worse and to have any chance to win in those days against the Broad St. Bullies you had to push back. Dave Schultz didn't always go looking for the toughest guy. Picking a fight with Dale Rolfe--picking another with Rick Middleton--going after Rod Gilbert. Going after a willing but a 5'7'' Eddie Johnstone. He avoided Nick Fotiu. Schultz had all kinds of help--Saleski, Bob Kelly, Dupont, Bathe, McIlhargey--later on Holmgren, Behn Wilson, Dave Brown, Berube--the Flyers regularly dressed 5 enforcers + per game for years. The rest of their team fed off of that. The Flyers modeled after the Big Bad Bruins and raised that to another couple levels and turned the game almost into an arms race of who could be the most belligerent. Basically they invented the goon as a hockey playing asset.

The Islanders were another challenge. Bench clearing brawls back in those days. Muggings. **** was happening all the time. Vadnais would protect himself. He wasn't the victim type. If you ****ed with him you paid a price.

 

[surf]

I still have that clipping from the paper that year I decided to clip all the Rangers headlines and back pages from the playoff run

Great Ranger.
Still remember the back page of the Daily News, he had a big cigar and a bigger smile. The Rangers had just won and were moving on to the finals.

 

[chosen]

I'll agree Vadnais was often pretty bad but there is context here. Phil Esposito talked about Vadnais carving his initials with his hockey stick in opponents foreheads. It was a different era and Vadnais wasn't a player who ever backed down. Playing teams like the Flyers--Vadnais could be a very dirty player but Bobby Clarke--even Ed Van Impe IMO were even worse and to have any chance to win in those days against the Broad St. Bullies you had to push back. Dave Schultz didn't always go looking for the toughest guy. Picking a fight with Dale Rolfe--picking another with Rick Middleton--going after Rod Gilbert. Going after a willing but a 5'7'' Eddie Johnstone. He avoided Nick Fotiu. Schultz had all kinds of help--Saleski, Bob Kelly, Dupont, Bathe, McIlhargey--later on Holmgren, Behn Wilson, Dave Brown, Berube--the Flyers regularly dressed 5 enforcers + per game for years. The rest of their team fed off of that. The Flyers modeled after the Big Bad Bruins and raised that to another couple levels and turned the game almost into an arms race of who could be the most belligerent. Basically they invented the goon as a hockey playing asset.

The Islanders were another challenge. Bench clearing brawls back in those days. Muggings. **** was happening all the time. Vadnais would protect himself. He wasn't the victim type. If you ****ed with him you paid a price.

All true, but he was filth no matter the opponent or situation. He was more often the initiator than a responder. Always disliked dirty even in a Rangers uniform.

 

[eco's bones]

All true, but he was filth no matter the opponent or situation. He was more often the initiator than a responder. Always disliked dirty even in a Rangers uniform.

It's just the way I remember--that the Rangers were one team taken by surprise by the Flyers new kind of hockey tactics. A lot of people talk about the early 70's Rangers teams as one of the best teams that never won a Cup. When that Flyer style of hockey took over--it was a couple years anyway before the Rangers even started to push back against them and by then the Rangers were starting to fade back into mediocrity. The Flyers took their two cups by brute aggression. I don't know if that could be said about any other Cup winning team in my experience of watching the game. They had talent but they weren't that good.

If you look at the Rangers guys--a lot of those who could really handle themselves didn't like to fight. Steve Vickers or Ron Harris for instance. For them it was more of a last resort. At least against the Flyers Vadnais was the type who would pay them back--though when calling him dirty he was basically dirty with his stick. He wasn't a guy who took out knees. He carried his stick real high--a lot. But then again in those days it was common practice that if someone was going to hit you he'd have to go through your stick first. I do remember him chopping up Bobby Clarke and the blood streaming down Clarke's face and if you touched Clarke the whole Flyer team would go ballistic. Clarke IMO was maybe the dirtiest player of his day though--it's not like that just happened out of nowhere.

 

[Giacomin]

Vadnais was a tough SOB who is very underappreciated by the Rangers fans and the NHL in general. He won 2 Stanley Cups and was an multi-year All Star. When the Rangers acquired him it was to teach the young players the Rangers had to win. Not in the same rink as Brad Park but he was a winner and taught the Rangers of the mid to late 70,s how to win as evidenced by their run in 1979.
When he was with the California/Oakland Seals or (Golden Seals) he was considered their best player and was traded to Boston for a young Reggie Leach among others
Carol played the game the way it was needed to be played and I am sad he passed way too young at 68
RIP you will be missed but I will always have fond memories of a Great Ranger Carol Vadnais

 

[chosen]

It's just the way I remember--that the Rangers were one team taken by surprise by the Flyers new kind of hockey tactics. A lot of people talk about the early 70's Rangers teams as one of the best teams that never won a Cup. When that Flyer style of hockey took over--it was a couple years anyway before the Rangers even started to push back against them and by then the Rangers were starting to fade back into mediocrity. The Flyers took their two cups by brute aggression. I don't know if that could be said about any other Cup winning team in my experience of watching the game. They had talent but they weren't that good.

If you look at the Rangers guys--a lot of those who could really handle themselves didn't like to fight. Steve Vickers or Ron Harris for instance. For them it was more of a last resort. At least against the Flyers Vadnais was the type who would pay them back--though when calling him dirty he was basically dirty with his stick. He wasn't a guy who took out knees. He carried his stick real high--a lot. But then again in those days it was common practice that if someone was going to hit you he'd have to go through your stick first. I do remember him chopping up Bobby Clarke and the blood streaming down Clarke's face and if you touched Clarke the whole Flyer team would go ballistic. Clarke IMO was maybe the dirtiest player of his day though--it's not like that just happened out of nowhere.

Clarke may have been the single dirtiest player I ever saw that also had talent. I hated his guts, especially so after he broke Kharlomov's ankle. After that I rooted for the USSR to win the series.

 

[chosen]

...Carol played the game the way it was needed to be played...

To believe that is to believe that the Flyers played the game it was meant to be played, in my opinion. Filth is filth.

Before the Flyers took over, the Bruins were plenty tough without resorting to the Flyers tactics. To me, they played the game the way it was meant to be played even though I hated those Bruins because they stood in the way of a Rangers Cup, and I even hated Orr in his first season.

By Orr's second season, I could not understand any fan that booed him. I wanted to beat him, but I realized I was seeing a special player. To me, he is the greatest player I have ever seen in any sport, and I feel lucky to have watched his entire career.

 

[eco's bones]

To believe that is to believe that the Flyers played the game it was meant to be played, in my opinion. Filth is filth.

Before the Flyers took over, the Bruins were plenty tough without resorting to the Flyers tactics. To me, they played the game the way it was meant to be played even though I hated those Bruins because they stood in the way of a Rangers Cup, and I even hated Orr in his first season.

By Orr's second season, I could not understand any fan that booed him. I wanted to beat him, but I realized I was seeing a special player. To me, he is the greatest player I have ever seen in any sport, and I feel lucky to have watched his entire career.

If we look at those pre-Broadway Bullies Big Bad Bruins though they had taken intimidation and toughness to new levels themselves. Derek Sanderson often crossed the line into dirty play. Ted Green as well. Green's stick battle with Wayne Maki left Green with a fractured skull when he turned away from that 'fight' before Maki was done. That wasn't only stick fight a Bruin was engaged in in those years--there was also Eddie Shack vs. Larry Zeidel--and for those wondering these guys were swinging at each others heads like they were piñatas with old fashion wooden sticks closer to baseball bats in weight and feel than hockey sticks are today. And the Bruins then traded for Vadnais themselves who was very arguable their second best defenseman behind Bobby Orr (IMO the best player that I've ever seen in my lifetime).

 

[Bluenote13]

Sad news. RIP

 

[frozenrubber]

If we look at those pre-Broadway Bullies Big Bad Bruins though they had taken intimidation and toughness to new levels themselves. Derek Sanderson often crossed the line into dirty play. Ted Green as well. Green's stick battle with Wayne Maki left Green with a fractured skull when he turned away from that 'fight' before Maki was done. That wasn't only stick fight a Bruin was engaged in in those years--there was also Eddie Shack vs. Larry Zeidel--and for those wondering these guys were swinging at each others heads like they were piñatas with old fashion wooden sticks closer to baseball bats in weight and feel than hockey sticks are today. And the Bruins then traded for Vadnais themselves who was very arguable their second best defenseman behind Bobby Orr (IMO the best player that I've ever seen in my lifetime).

This is the reason that the common concussion argument of the day: "players today just don't respect each other" is pure BS.

Clarke and others have openly admitted they would be one step away from maiming a player to win.

 

[eco's bones]

This is the reason that the common concussion argument of the day: "players today just don't respect each other" is pure BS.

Clarke and others have openly admitted they would be one step away from maiming a player to win.

If you look back back through the years at individual players from the 30's, 40's, 50's etc. you'll find numerous players whose stats all of a sudden disappear after years of production, You could be like WTF happen to him?--but it was you were able to play or you were not--and if you had like a serious headache that wouldn't go away that was your problem--you were paid to play--not to be hurt--not to complain. So someone who had been productive all of a sudden not being productive and he's not playing anymore. And he could be like in his mid 20's and his career is over. A lot of guys were like that. The concussion thing has been a long time coming. The NHL has just figured it out pretty recently.

As far as Clarke--he broke Kharlamov's ankle. It was a dirty play. He knew exactly what he did and he thought it was funny and it was a turning point in the series. He still thinks it's funny which should tell you a bit about him. To Canadians then hockey was their game. It belonged to them. Not to anybody else. It was win at all costs. Clarke is a ****ed up human being IMO. As a child he was a diabetic. He fought very hard to get to where he got. He was a really, really good hockey player. He was also a very dirty player. Just because you suffer and even if you overcome a lot of ****---it doesn't make you a good person. He's not IMO.

 

[Giacomin]

Vadnais was a tough player who knew how to win. Clarke was an a**hole. Lets remember a tough Ranger who just passed without bring up that a**hole who played in Philly.
RIP Carol Vadnais a great Ranger who was a tough as there was in his day!