Player Discussion Carey Price - Who's Your Daddy? Edition

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nhlfan9191

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I'm merely looking at the great goalie's I knew and made a statement that most of them made their mark in great playoff runs.

What does Connor McDavid have to do with that argument?

The great goalies for the most part all have something in common, they played for great teams. One of the greatest goalies of all time in Hasek had to leave Buffalo after a great career there to finally get the final piece of hardware he was missing. Dryden ‘71 and Roy ‘93 were two of the greatest runs in history but even those teams were better then anything Price has had to play with. The game has changed. There’s way more teams and parity. You don’t win cups on the backs of only goalies although they usually take the bulk of the credit in the end. Pittsburgh, Chicago, and LA have dominated most of the new era and it’s because they built strong cores.
 
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azcanuck

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The great goalies for the most part all have something in common, they played for great teams. One of the greatest goalies of all time in Hasek had to leave Buffalo after a great career there to finally get the final piece of hardware he was missing. Dryden ‘71 and Roy ‘93 were two of the greatest runs in history but even those teams were better then anything Price has had to play with. The game has changed. There’s way more teams and parity. You don’t win cups on the backs of only goalies although they usually take the bulk of the credit in the end. Pittsburgh, Chicago, and LA have dominated most of the new era and it’s because they built strong cores.
Hasek took Buffalo on his back in probably the greatest perfromance by a goalie and got Buffalo to a cup final.
Montreal had no business winning the cup in '86 and they did so because of Patrick Roy.
Henrki Lundqvist let the Rangers to the Cup final with spectacular goaltending.

It can happen. I still think Price can do it. If he doesnt it definitely diminishes his accomplishments.
 

nhlfan9191

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Hasek took Buffalo on his back in probably the greatest perfromance by a goalie and got Buffalo to a cup final.
Montreal had no business winning the cup in '86 and they did so because of Patrick Roy.
Henrki Lundqvist let the Rangers to the Cup final with spectacular goaltending.

It can happen. I still think Price can do it. If he doesnt it definitely diminishes his accomplishments.

A cup final at the end of the day isn’t getting the job done. Just ask Lundqvist or Luongo who was one game away. Not trying to take away from how good they still were in those runs. Just making a point. Price very likely could’ve taken us to a final as well in ‘14. It still wouldn’t have changed anything if he didn’t actually win the whole thing. I disagree about that ‘86 run. That was still a very good team. I put the others I mentioned above it but it’s in third place on my list of best performances by a Habs goalie in the playoffs.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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Hasek took Buffalo on his back in probably the greatest perfromance by a goalie and got Buffalo to a cup final.
Came within an illegal goal of winning the cup too.
Montreal had no business winning the cup in '86 and they did so because of Patrick Roy.
Take a look back at the series they played. They were as good as every one of the teams they faced. They never faced the Flyers or the Oilers.
Henrki Lundqvist let the Rangers to the Cup final with spectacular goaltending.
Lundqvist only made it to the cup finals due to an injury to... Carey Price.
It can happen. I still think Price can do it. If he doesnt it definitely diminishes his accomplishments.
For some it will. But it's misplaced. I don't blame Price for not winning a cup anymore than I'll blame McDavid for not making it to the playoffs.
 

azcanuck

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A cup final at the end of the day isn’t getting the job done. Just ask Lundqvist or Luongo who was one game away. Not trying to take away from how good they still were in those runs. Just making a point. Price very likely could’ve taken us to a final as well in ‘14. It still wouldn’t have changed anything if he didn’t actually win the whole thing. I disagree about that ‘86 run. That was still a very good team. I put the others I mentioned above it but it’s in third place on my list of best performances by a Habs goalie in the playoffs.
I agree one run just to the final isnt enough but add in a lot of brilliant playoffs by King Henry and other personal accomplishments and it all adds up to greatness.
 

azcanuck

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Came within an illegal goal of winning the cup too.

Take a look back at the series they played. They were as good as every one of the teams they faced. They never faced the Flyers or the Oilers.

Lundqvist only made it to the cup finals due to an injury to... Carey Price.

For some it will. But it's misplaced. I don't blame Price for not winning a cup anymore than I'll blame McDavid for not making it to the playoffs.
It's not a blame thing.
I'll say it one more time. Goalies are unique in the sense they can carry a playoff team on their back more then any one individual. Historically the great ones have done this. Price hasnt.

Nothing to do with McDAvid.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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It's not a blame thing.
I'll say it one more time. Goalies are unique in the sense they can carry a playoff team on their back more then any one individual. Historically the great ones have done this. Price hasnt.
And I shot holes in the arguments you brought up. Do you have a response to it beyond "Price hasn't won anything"?
Nothing to do with McDAvid.
Bury your head in the sand and pretend this is the case if you wish.

McDavid is a parallel. And it's a great example of what we're talking about. McD is the best player in the league and can't get his team into the playoffs. If he can't get the Oilers into the playoffs how can we expect other players to lead mediocre teams to cups?
 

nhlfan9191

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I agree one run just to the final isnt enough but add in a lot of brilliant playoffs by King Henry and other personal accomplishments and it all adds up to greatness.

Lundqvist was 30 before he finally made it past the second round and a lot of people forget that he was actually being questioned for his performance in the playoffs before he actually got to that point. It wasn’t until the Rangers became contenders between 11-15 that he finally started getting some results. It’s a team game. New York is a big market, but it’s not the same as Montreal. Every goal a goalie lets in here in the playoffs gets heavily dissected. Lundqvist himself pointed it out a few years ago when asked about it in an interview.
 

azcanuck

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And I shot holes in the arguments you brought up. Do you have a response to it beyond "Price hasn't won anything"?

Bury your head in the sand and pretend this is the case if you wish.

McDavid is a parallel. And it's a great example of what we're talking about. McD is the best player in the league and can't get his team into the playoffs. If he can't get the Oilers into the playoffs how can we expect other players to lead mediocre teams to cups?
I dont care about your excuses for Carey.

Historically the great GOALIES have led teams on long playoff runs and most have won championships. So far price has not.

Nothing to do with McDavid who just started his career and is not a goalie.
 

LaP

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I dont care about your excuses for Carey.

Historically the great GOALIES have led teams on long playoff runs and most have won championships. So far price has not.

Nothing to do with McDavid who just started his career and is not a goalie.

Come on. Most generational centers won the cup and arguably had an impact as big as a goalie if not even bigger. If you ask me Prime Gretzky or Prime Roy i'll take Prime Gretzky.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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I dont care about your excuses for Carey.
The mediocre rosters are what they are. It's not an excuse it's a simple fact. Those teams weren't good enough to win no matter who was in net.
Historically the great GOALIES have led teams on long playoff runs and most have won championships. So far price has not.
And those goalies had good teams in front of them. Carey Price has not.
Nothing to do with McDavid who just started his career and is not a goalie.
Who cares if he's not a goalie? :laugh:

Right now there are posters out there ripping him for not getting that team into the playoffs. It's crazy to do this but that's what people do. They rip on guys when it should be obvious that their teams have failed despite their play not because of it.
 
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Lafleurs Guy

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you mean the guy (price) who has never won much in the playoffs somehow prevented Henrik from making it?
You're sitting there talking about Lundqvist making the finals in order to cut up Price... and you're ignoring the fact that he only did it in 2014 - the year Price got hurt. Sorry man but it's actually pretty funny to read. :laugh:

Anyways, Lundqvist as far as I'm concerned is in the same boat Price is in. He never played behind great rosters either. If he had been behind better clubs he'd have won cups as well. That doesn't mean that he's not a great goalie either. In my books he's a first ballot HOFer, cup or not.
 

BLONG7

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I dont care about your excuses for Carey.

Historically the great GOALIES have led teams on long playoff runs and most have won championships. So far price has not.

Nothing to do with McDavid who just started his career and is not a goalie.
You should go back, and see who Roy had playing as a #1 centre when he won in 86, and I can tell you this, it was not Desharnais or Danault...

The Habs have built their entire hopes for 10 years on the back of a goalie, who has covered up...all of the organizations failures. He is far from perfect, but he has been during a brutal clown show type of running of the team, the best we have had. The other teams laugh art the Habs " systems "
The talking heads on all of the sport shows who are connected, will tell you, Price during his career, has held up his end of the bargain...the organization, not so much.
 

azcanuck

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You should go back, and see who Roy had playing as a #1 centre when he won in 86, and I can tell you this, it was not Desharnais or Danault...

The Habs have built their entire hopes for 10 years on the back of a goalie, who has covered up...all of the organizations failures. He is far from perfect, but he has been during a brutal clown show type of running of the team, the best we have had. The other teams laugh art the Habs " systems "
The talking heads on all of the sport shows who are connected, will tell you, Price during his career, has held up his end of the bargain...the organization, not so much.
price I think can still be good for quite a while barring injuries.
With our up and coming good prospects I think near the tail end of his career we can win one. Big hope.
 

azcanuck

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You're sitting there talking about Lundqvist making the finals in order to cut up Price... and you're ignoring the fact that he only did it in 2014 - the year Price got hurt. Sorry man but it's actually pretty funny to read. :laugh:

Anyways, Lundqvist as far as I'm concerned is in the same boat Price is in. He never played behind great rosters either. If he had been behind better clubs he'd have won cups as well. That doesn't mean that he's not a great goalie either. In my books he's a first ballot HOFer, cup or not.
I'm not "cutting up price" I merely stated most of the great goalies have taken their teams on there back and at least got to the finals or won multiple cups.
He will still be a great goalie in my eyes but a Stanley cup will cement his legacy.
 

Milhouse40

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I'm not "cutting up price" I merely stated most of the great goalies have taken their teams on there back and at least got to the finals or won multiple cups.
He will still be a great goalie in my eyes but a Stanley cup will cement his legacy.

I kind of agree with that....BUT, as i've kept saying for a long time, a Stanley Cup is a team trophy, not an individual trophy. I know, here in Montreal it's all about the goalie since Patrick Roy. No other way to win than being carried by a goalie.

But the truth is there's not one goaltender that carried his team to the cup, not even Roy, not even once.
Never forget that Roy is a local boy and the influence of the medias on our perception back then

Remember that Drouin was Lafleur without even playing a game in MTL
 

azcanuck

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I kind of agree with that....BUT, as i've kept saying for a long time, a Stanley Cup is a team trophy, not an individual trophy. I know, here in Montreal it's all about the goalie since Patrick Roy. No other way to win than being carried by a goalie.

But the truth is there's not one goaltender that carried his team to the cup, not even Roy, not even once.
Never forget that Roy is a local boy and the influence of the medias on our perception back then

Remember that Drouin was Lafleur without even playing a game in MTL
In every sport great players who win championships are held in a higher regard. Nobody is interested in dissecting who's fault that is. Its just a fact.

I dont care if Roy was from Austria. He's one of the greatest ever to play goal. He even won a cup with colorado.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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I kind of agree with that....BUT, as i've kept saying for a long time, a Stanley Cup is a team trophy, not an individual trophy. I know, here in Montreal it's all about the goalie since Patrick Roy. No other way to win than being carried by a goalie.

But the truth is there's not one goaltender that carried his team to the cup, not even Roy, not even once.
Never forget that Roy is a local boy and the influence of the medias on our perception back then

Remember that Drouin was Lafleur without even playing a game in MTL
I think as the league continues to grow, the "he doesn't have a cup" stigma won't carry as much weight as it used to. Ovechkin just won his first cup in his mid 30s. McDavid might never win one. The simple fact of the matter is that with 32 teams in the league soon it's going to be harder than ever to win a championship. That means better and better players are going to end their careers without one.
 

Milhouse40

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In every sport great players who win championships are held in a higher regard. Nobody is interested in dissecting who's fault that is. Its just a fact.

I dont care if Roy was from Austria. He's one of the greatest ever to play goal. He even won a cup with colorado.

Roy was one of the best.....but it got nothing to do with his Cups.
He won in Colorado....with one hell of a roster in front of him too, would he have won Cups without Forsberg and Sakic?
 

azcanuck

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Roy was one of the best.....but it got nothing to do with his Cups.
He won in Colorado....with one hell of a roster in front of him too, would he have won Cups without Forsberg and Sakic?
No doubt. And Roy is considered an all time great and a Champion for good reason. He was clutch.
 

ahmedou

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Wanted to post this earlier, but our team will never be a contender with Price on this team. Not because of his contract but because of the attitude he brings to the team -- "if Price plays his best, we have a chance." It has been that way since Bergevin took the GM position. It makes the staff feel like they don't have to make any real changes to the line up because, with Price, they always have a chance. This has been their philosophy for years now... they have said it outright. It's why we're still sitting on ~10million in cap space. It's why we still don't have a 1C. It's why we continue to try and plug holes in our defense. Because Price always gives us a chance.
It's not Price's fault. He's a great goalie. It's the attitude he brings to Habs management.
We are still missing a 1C (Kotkaniemi won't be there for another 3 years). We are still missing a skilled top 6 winger. We are still missing a #2 D (Mete is a better #4.) There is no pressure to find these pieces because Price continues to "give us a chance."
Either get that notion out of management's head or get rid of Price.
You're seeing the tree that hides the forest...
 

nhlfan9191

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Price bounced back which after last year and his contract extension, is huge. He had a great year. Gave the team every chance to win. But if there’s evidence a single player can’t do everything outside of McDavid right now, Carey’s a good example. He will drown personally until this team finally improves. Hopefully he gets rewarded when he regresses as he ages and the team starts to carry him. Or maybe they can sync together. Who knows. He’s in the wrong place at the wrong time which has been the story of his career.
 
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