Carey Price showing he'll never be an all-time great of his generation

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TBF1972

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May 19, 2018
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Not to nitpick but scoring was down when Lundqvist was Price's age. Goalies haven't been maintaining .920% the same way since the pad changes a few years back. At that point every starter in the league was above .920%. This year only 7 are at that threshold. Last year only 3.
Look up career sv%. Plenty of active goalies ahead of Price.
I know. Shitty team in front of him.
Yada yada
 
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nhlfan9191

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And in that 2017 season..he got outplayed in round 1 of the playoffs by a 35 year old Henrik Lundqvist

I don’t think you can really use the outplayed argument to downplay a goalie who had a .930+ save percentage and averaged less then 2 goals a game in a series and still lost. It was just a super tight series. But Lundqvist’s consistency has always put him ahead of anyone in his generation and or the current. You can make an argument from 2010-2017 that Price was trending to be in the same tier or better then Lundqvist, but the last 3-4 seasons have ended that.
 

Lays

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I don’t think you can really use the outplayed argument to downplay a goalie who had a .930+ save percentage and averaged less then 2 goals a game in a series and still lost. It was just a super tight series. But Lundqvist’s consistency has always put him ahead of anyone in his generation and or the current. You can make an argument from 2010-2017 that Price was trending to be in the same tier or better then Lundqvist, but the last 3-4 seasons have ended that.
Price never put up Hank’s playoff stats. Price was trending to be as good as regular season Hank but at this point he just can’t overcome Hank’s playoffs even if he hasn’t won a cup
 

ottomaddox

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Well there was so much pro Canadian / Canadian supremacy, and then he was a goalie for The Canadiens. So was he that good or did he benefit from all that propaganda?

There was certainly some doubts about him around the time that Halak took the net. Then Price played well for a stretch. There's plenty of valleys in his career. In no way is he a goalie of a generation.

He might soon be considered to be a coach killer.
 

Chimpradamus

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I think that Carey Price has already cemented himself as one of the great goalies of his generation.

I'm really not sure what Henrik Lundqvist or Pekka Rinne have done that put them on a higher tier than Price...
Consistency? Ever heard that term? Doing a great thing - over and over again - for at least 90% of their career? Yeah, that thing. That's what puts HHOF goalies between them and Price.
 

Chimpradamus

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Even that year they played the Rangers in Eastern final, i don't see the Habs beating them even if Price didn't go down.
Lot of people were quick to blame Kreider saying "It was our year" but the same problems in that series existed as they did every year.
The Habs could not score goals. I remember Tokarski actually playing great in that series. Aside from the 7 they gave up in game 1, most of the other games, the Rangers just squeeked by.

Then when they had a healthy Price the following season Tampa Bay absolutely demolished them in the regular season and playoffs.
There's stats for this you know. Look up the NHL.com playoff GF/G playoff stats. The NYR are absolely pathetic in this department. Also the PP%. Like 3rd worst in the league with 70+ playoff games. The Habs had better goalscoring than the Rangers, because basically NOBODY had worse playoff scoring than the Rangers.
 
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swimmer77

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Didn't read the whole thread so maybe it's already been noted. Hard to group Price with Quick and Holtby when the latter two wear Stanley Cup rings.

Maybe another tier is needed.
 

Streetsamurai

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I think that the goalie equipment size reduction really affected him, since he is more of a positional goaler than a.reflexe one.

Never was a fan of him but the had an insane peak, but was average to bad the rest of his career. Really tough to rate his career because of that
 
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ScaryCarey31

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Fun fact: Price and Rinne each have had the same number of Norris winners on their team.

Also, as a neutral fan, I've generally considered the coaches during Prices tenure to be very defensive (particularly Therrien, Julien and Martin).
I wouldnt consider a flash and dash P.K Subban to be Norris level defensively, he was all about offense. And don't even get me started about weber lol
 

hoglund

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As a Leafs fan, i kind of feel bad for Carey Price (not the habs) The best years of your hockey career wasted with your teams number 1 center being David Desharnais
Price is like Carlos Delgado or Doc Halladay of baseball, both are hall of famers that played their prime on a bad teams and because of it never won a world series.
 

Regal

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Consistency? Ever heard that term? Doing a great thing - over and over again - for at least 90% of their career? Yeah, that thing. That's what puts HHOF goalies between them and Price.

Lundqvist for sure. I wouldn't say Rinne has been more consistent
 

TheRealPrice

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Feb 26, 2021
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Price had pretty much everything to be the best in the world of all times.

He had the support of the Club, the NHL, the fans, the money, the wife and the dogs.

How many had the chance to play under these conditions? I can only think of Crosby really.

Price failed as a project and its time for people to realize that and move on to a newer (hopefully better) project.
 

RealisticLeaf55

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Sep 28, 2010
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Price had pretty much everything to be the best in the world of all times.

He had the support of the Club, the NHL, the fans, the money, the wife and the dogs.

How many had the chance to play under these conditions? I can only think of Crosby really.

Price failed as a project and its time for people to realize that and move on to a newer (hopefully better) project.

This can't be serious.
 

BlackAdam

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May 5, 2013
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Price had pretty much everything to be the best in the world of all times.

He had the support of the Club, the NHL, the fans, the money, the wife and the dogs.

How many had the chance to play under these conditions? I can only think of Crosby really.

Price failed as a project and its time for people to realize that and move on to a newer (hopefully better) project.

Montreal no way wins those division titles with any other average goalie if they switched places with him.
All those Habs teams were mediocre and were middle of the pack outside carey price when it came to goals for. Price was able to come in and the Habs won a lot of those games 2-1 or 3-2.
Now that he's declined, Montreal needs over 3 goals to win those games.
Bergevin went all in and spent 10.5 million on a position that can't score goals and Price is no longer putting up those stellar numbers.
 

TheRealPrice

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Feb 26, 2021
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Montreal no way wins those division titles with any other average goalie if they switched places with him.
All those Habs teams were mediocre and were middle of the pack outside carey price when it came to goals for. Price was able to come in and the Habs won a lot of those games 2-1 or 3-2.
Now that he's declined, Montreal needs over 3 goals to win those games.
Bergevin went all in and spent 10.5 million on a position that can't score goals and Price is no longer putting up those stellar numbers.

True, he had 1 great year and few good ones here and there but we're talking 14 seasons here. He wasn't drafted 5th overall in 2005 to become a 88.8% avg goalie. The past 5-6 years hes been bad. To me a goalie who has played this bad for such long time specially after you sign him at 10.5 m is a failed project. You only give that kind of money to a Crosby, Brodeur, Roy or what not. Carey Price is doing worst than an ecl backup goalie.

If he's done he should retire and end this on a somewhat positive note.
 

brock0791

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If you want to say Carey Price isn't a generational hall of fame goalie because of a few down years then how do put Bure in because of injury years when he doesn't really have the career counting stats to deserve it. You can appreciate a 7-10 year peak

I hate when baseball writers look at career averages instead of peak because it penalizes a guy like Albert Pujols who was basically Mike Trout at the plate for 10 years but decided to still play at 40 because he loves the game.
 

RealisticLeaf55

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Price was drafted 5th overall.... they expected him to be the next Roy. Why else would they draft him this early when they had Theodore at the time who had won a Hart and Vezina a few years earlier.

Whats not serious?

The guy has seldom had a team to be competitive enough. He has been elite in his prime. He has won several awards including a hart, vezina and jennings along with a lindsay award. In the years he had a strong offense, he had a weak defense, and vice versa.

When has Montreal had a truly competitive, Presidents trophy winning team?
 

Goose

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Price is like Carlos Delgado or Doc Halladay of baseball, both are hall of famers that played their prime on a bad teams and because of it never won a world series.

Delgado and Halladay are extremely far apart as comparison points.

Halladay is a Top 20 pitcher all time in my books. Price is not on his comparative level. If Price continues to decline and doesn’t win a cup does he crack the Top 30 goalies all time? I know his win total will be impressive, but so was Cujo’s and he’s not HHOF.

Delgado okay sure, maybe that works, but that’s probably under-appreciating Price.
 

BlackAdam

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habs have just been unlucky in general.
they really never hit on any of their 1st round pics since carey price other than sergachev and they traded him for an inconsistent drouin.
they never really had the opportunity to properly tank to gain high picks (matthews, mackinnon, mcdavid) cause seasons where they were bottom of the league or missed the playoffs (2011/2012 and 2015/2016) carey price had phenomenal following seasons where the habs won their division and it gives management a false impression of where the habs really are when it comes to competing so they load up on bad contracts in free agency.

carey price has been the gift and the curse to the montreal canadiens.
they never really were able to gain elite talent because price doesn't let them finish low enough in the standings or their drafting is so bad in other rounds.
 

TheRealPrice

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Feb 26, 2021
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The guy has seldom had a team to be competitive enough. He has been elite in his prime. He has won several awards including a hart, vezina and jennings along with a lindsay award. In the years he had a strong offense, he had a weak defense, and vice versa.

When has Montreal had a truly competitive, Presidents trophy winning team?

realistically how better do you think he could of done with a better team? Pic the team you want in the last 10 years and give it to Price. How many more sc do you think he could of won for that team if he played for them instead.

I can tell you right off the bat in 2010 a shorter goalie stole his starter position and got into the ecf with arguably the worst team in the playoffs that year. With the worst team and a allegedly a worst goalie the habs beat arguably the 2 best teams of the playoffs that year back to back.
 

Kairi Zaide

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Peak is Price. Prime is Lundqvist.
This is highly arguable. Below are the top 10 seasons for goaltending GAR (Evolving Hockey's model) since 07-08.
4486168749.png

There's really no goalie in the league, for that timespan, who even comes close to Lundqvist. For the entire time span (07-08 to today), these are the cumulative goalie GAR for the top 10 goalies. Price sits second, followed by Quick not too far.
892c84434f.png

Some goalies obviously don't show up there, due to playing far less games than the goalies at the top. If I put a threshold of 10 000 EV FA, 37 goalies meet the criteria. And by convertion to a /60 rate, these become the rankings.
e70ca6df5c.png

The King sits comfortably at the top again, while Price drops due to some subpar seasons, and some goalies are propped up. I doubt that in 5-6 seasons, when Andersen reaches ~700 games, he'll still be there, but who knows.

Note that I'm only showing top 10s because you have to be a patron to Evolving Hockey to access the entire data, and I want to keep this sharing under fair use terms.

Note that I'm also aware that it's just one model amongst many others; For instance, MoneyPuck's "Sv% above expected" can yield vastly different results from Evolving Hockey's "GAR" or "GSAx" models. However, MoneyPuck's data only dates back to 15-16, and seasons can't be combined, unfortunately.
 
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Fataldogg

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Price has not had near the quality of teams that the other two have had. I'm not saying that Price is better than either of them. I just don't see those two as head and shoulders above Price. The Habs have been pretty poorly managed over Price's career.

Rinne, maybe.

Lundqvist played for some pretty bad teams. Look back at their advanced defensive metrics during some of the years he played there in his prime,

Team was not nearly as good defensively as they were touted. Lundqvist was that good. It didn't matter if the team was good, average or bad in his prime. Lundqvist was always great and always had his team in the playoffs. Its the reason why if he played for some stronger organizations such as Chicago, LA, Boston, Pittsburgh, Washington, etc over the years, he would likely have won more Vezina trophies. For what its worth, I think if Price was part of a better organization he would have walked away with more than one Vezina in his prime.

I also think Price at his peak being better than Lundqvist at his is over blown.

In their best statistical seasons Lundqvist was a 1.97GAA and .930SV%. Price was a 1.96GAA and .933SV%.

You're talking about a difference of 0.01GAA and .003SV%. In a full season, the tangible on ice results would be absolutely negligible.
 
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jfhabs

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Price never put up Hank’s playoff stats. Price was trending to be as good as regular season Hank but at this point he just can’t overcome Hank’s playoffs even if he hasn’t won a cup
Price peaked higher but Henrik has had the consistency. Will be interesting to see what Price does in the next few years, not looking soo good so far this season but it's only 10 games in for Price...
 

hoglund

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Delgado and Halladay are extremely far apart as comparison points.

Halladay is a Top 20 pitcher all time in my books. Price is not on his comparative level. If Price continues to decline and doesn’t win a cup does he crack the Top 30 goalies all time? I know his win total will be impressive, but so was Cujo’s and he’s not HHOF.

Delgado okay sure, maybe that works, but that’s probably under-appreciating Price.
Delgado is the Blue Jays homerun leader in franchise history, that's an impressive stat and doesn't "under appreciate" Price.
 
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