Post-Game Talk: Carey Price records a shutout as the Habs lose 7-1 to the Wild

Runner77

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Alzner came here. He believed the Habs had everything to win the Cup.

Alzner was not a premium UFA and is very far from the prototypical D most teams are after. He had known mobility issues and wear and tear. The only reason he signed in Montreal is that MB was dumb enough to rush to get him. Alzner doesn't help your argument one bit.

What Alzner believed is immaterial. What is telling is how his previous team, that actually won a Cup, knew when to cut bait and diminished his playing time in the last season of his contract. He had become a liability. Leave it to our GM and his advisors not to have been able to properly process what most of the rest of the league, already knew.
 
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The Great Weal

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Does it really matter? Big name UFAs don't typically gravitate around Montreal -- they just use the Habs to get a better offer elsewhere.
Radulov? He had better offers but still chose the Habs. I'm not talking about what happened after, I'm only talking about him signing with us in the first place.
 

admiralcadillac

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Alzner was not a premium UFA and is very far from the prototypical D most teams are after. He had known mobility issues and wear and tear. The only reason he signed in Montreal is that MB was dumb enough to rush to get him. Alzner doesn't help your argument one bit.

What Alzner believed is immaterial. What is telling is how his previous team, that actually won a Cup, knew when to cut bait and diminished his playing time in the last season of his contract. He had become a liability. Leave it to our GM and his advisors not to have been able to properly process what most of the rest of the league, already knew.

I think his post has to be sarcasm
 

Runner77

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Radulov? He had better offers but still chose the Habs. I'm not talking about what happened after, I'm only talking about him signing with us in the first place.

He was already Habs property when he became a UFA. Obviously, the Habs gave him a chance when he all he had was a bad reputation from the time he used to be in the NHL. We can't really use the first contract with the Habs as an indicator as he wasn't thought of as a premium UFA at the time of his signature. He was a short term calculated risk.

When he had the season that he did with the Habs, then it had become clear that he was a legit top line UFA. And Montreal wasn't in the cards for him.
 
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JianYang

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This game had a throwaway feel to it before it got going.

The one thing I wanted the team to accomplish was to keep price on the bench, and they couldn't even do that. That pissed me off.

Who cares if the other team scores 10. The main objective still should have been to let price recharge a bit.
 

The Great Weal

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He was already Habs property when he became a UFA. Obviously, the Habs gave him a chance when he all he had was a bad reputation from the time he used to be in the NHL. We can't really use the first contract with the Habs as an indicator as he wasn't thought of as a premium UFA at the time of his signature. He was a short term calculated risk.

When he had the season that he did with the Habs, then it had become clear that he was a legit top line UFA. And Montreal wasn't in the cards for him.
I disagree. He had the highest PPG in the entire KHL and was only 29. Habs also did their homework to see if he was a head case over there. Radulov wanted a multi year deal from the start, and some team did offer him a 2 year deal. The Habs weren't one of them but he still chose to sign with us.

I believe that Detroit was one of those teams offering him more than one year. If he wanted to use a team only to get a bigger pay check, Detroit would have made more sense. He would have been playing with Zetterberg and Tatar and the year after Zetterberg and Larkin. Those are some pretty good players to boost your numbers. Of course as we saw last year he wasn't a one year wonder, so he could have made even more money if he became a UFA this past summer.
 

Runner77

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I disagree. He had the highest PPG in the entire KHL and was only 29. Habs also did their homework to see if he was a head case over there. Radulov wanted a multi year deal from the start, and some team did offer him a 2 year deal. The Habs weren't one of them but he still chose to sign with us.

I believe that Detroit was one of those teams offering him more than one year. If he wanted to use a team only to get a bigger pay check, Detroit would have made more sense. He would have been playing with Zetterberg and Tatar and the year after Zetterberg and Larkin. Those are some pretty good players to boost your numbers. Of course as we saw last year he wasn't a one year wonder, so he could have made even more money if he became a UFA this past summer.

I disagree with your take. He was nothing more than a calculated risk when the Habs signed him. KHL stats don't always translate and the player had a history of unsportsmanlike behavior and failed repeatedly to follow team rules. He left a very public and sour taste, when he bolted for the KHL. No one wanted him, he was perceived as a head case. Heavy drinking was involved. He was nabbed at a bar drinking heavily in the early hours of the morning, while his team was in the playoffs and he had slipped out of the team hotel to do this.

After proving himself with the Habs, he then re-established himself and raised his stock to such an extent as to warrant a lucrative multi-year deal. This is the point at which he was legitimately perceived as a premium UFA, not before.

Plus, if the Habs "did their homework" as you surmise, and knew for a fact that Radulov was a surefire top 6 player with no attitudinal issue, how come they only offered him a one-year deal? They wouldn't even given him the 2 year deal that Radulov was after. Think about it -- they did their homework so well that they shot themselves in the foot by missing out on the second year of a deal where they could have had him for a song. Your theory doesn't add up.
 

the

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I disagree. He had the highest PPG in the entire KHL and was only 29. Habs also did their homework to see if he was a head case over there. Radulov wanted a multi year deal from the start, and some team did offer him a 2 year deal. The Habs weren't one of them but he still chose to sign with us.

I believe that Detroit was one of those teams offering him more than one year. If he wanted to use a team only to get a bigger pay check, Detroit would have made more sense. He would have been playing with Zetterberg and Tatar and the year after Zetterberg and Larkin. Those are some pretty good players to boost your numbers. Of course as we saw last year he wasn't a one year wonder, so he could have made even more money if he became a UFA this past summer.

No team offered Radulov a 2 year contract, he said it himself towards the end of the season with the Habs. We probably gave him the best contract...
 
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The Great Weal

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I disagree with your take. He was nothing more than a calculated risk when the Habs signed him. KHL stats don't always translate and the player had a history of unsportsmanlike behavior and failed repeatedly to follow team rules. He left a very public and sour taste, when he bolted for the KHL. No one wanted him, he was perceived as a head case. Heavy drinking was involved. He was nabbed at a bar drinking heavily in the early hours of the morning, while his team was in the playoffs and he had slipped out of the team hotel to do this.

After proving himself with the Habs, he then re-established himself and raised his stock to such an extent as to warrant a lucrative multi-year deal. This is the point at which he was legitimately perceived as a premium UFA, not before.

Plus, if the Habs "did their homework" as you surmise, and knew for a fact that Radulov was a surefire top 6 player with no attitudinal issue, how come they only offered him a one-year deal? They wouldn't even given him the 2 year deal that Radulov was after. Think about it -- they did their homework so well that they shot themselves in the foot by missing out on the second year of a deal where they could have had him for a song. Your theory doesn't add up.
Right, but Radulov still had tons of interest from NHL teams as a 29 year old setting the KHL on fire.

And like I said, he could have chose any of those teams that were interested in him. Those teams were also ready to match his term. The Habs didn't want to go over 1 year, but he still chose us. He could have raised his stock with a team like Detroit too. As a matter of fact, I think he would be getting even more right now if he had a 2 year deal.

I said that the Habs did their homework to see if he was a head case over there or not, which they absolutely did. You even listed his poor history. Coaches, teammates, scouts...etc had nothing but positive things to say about Radulov and how he completely turned his act around. I have no clue where this "knew for a fact that Radulov was a surefire top 6 player" came from because I never said that.

I don't see how my theory doesn't add up. Habs along with many other teams were interested in the best player outside the NHL that was only 29 years old. Many teams were willing to meet his demands of a multi year contract. The Habs were not one of them but ye still signed with us. The Habs gave him $5.75 million. That's pretty much the money for a top 6 player.
 

The Great Weal

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No team offered Radulov a 2 year contract, he said him himself towards the end of the season with the Habs. We probably gave him the best contract...
Huh, I really thought that there was at least one team that were willing to give him 2. I could be wrong, but I'm too lazy to look it up so I'll take your word for it. Point still stands that Radulov had other options but still chose to sign with us.
 

Runner77

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Right, but Radulov still had tons of interest from NHL teams as a 29 year old setting the KHL on fire.

And like I said, he could have chose any of those teams that were interested in him. Those teams were also ready to match his term. The Habs didn't want to go over 1 year, but he still chose us. He could have raised his stock with a team like Detroit too. As a matter of fact, I think he would be getting even more right now if he had a 2 year deal.

I said that the Habs did their homework to see if he was a head case over there or not, which they absolutely did. You even listed his poor history. Coaches, teammates, scouts...etc had nothing but positive things to say about Radulov and how he completely turned his act around. I have no clue where this "knew for a fact that Radulov was a surefire top 6 player" came from because I never said that.

I don't see how my theory doesn't add up. Habs along with many other teams were interested in the best player outside the NHL that was only 29 years old. Many teams were willing to meet his demands of a multi year contract. The Habs were not one of them but ye still signed with us. The Habs gave him $5.75 million. That's pretty much the money for a top 6 player.

Simple. The argument was about the Habs attracting a premium UFA, when the player was being evaluated as such by the market at large.

I have already presented convincing arguments as to why this wasn't the case when Radulov chose to return to the NHL.

I respectfully disagree and won't delve into this further as I believe there is a point of diminishing returns and I have reached it. Nothing more I could say will convince you and that's fine by me.
 

the

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Huh, I really thought that there was at least one team that were willing to give him 2. I could be wrong, but I'm too lazy to look it up so I'll take your word for it. Point still stands that Radulov had other options but still chose to sign with us.

That’s what was mentionned when he signed with us in July 2016 but later on it was proven to be untrue.

I will try to dig it up but it was a interview with Eric Engels Sportsnet in Feb-March 2017. It was mentionned that Radulov was looking at a multi year contract but no team were willing to offer him more than 1 year so after waiting he took our offer.
 

groovejuice

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Huh, I really thought that there was at least one team that were willing to give him 2. I could be wrong, but I'm too lazy to look it up so I'll take your word for it. Point still stands that Radulov had other options but still chose to sign with us.

I'm pretty sure you're correct about another team offering Radulov a 2 year term, and it was reported at the time.
 
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the

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https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/qa-alexander-radulov-curfews-contracts-canadiens-chances

Detroit, Florida and Montreal were all in the mix for your services this summer…

There were other teams, too. But those three were in it, yes.

You were one of the highest scoring players in the KHL for the last four years, but no team offered you more than one season on an NHL contract. That’s why we’re asking if you feel like you were still being punished for that one incident.

I was thinking about it. Obviously I was getting updates from my agent, and every time I was speaking with an NHL team they were asking, "What happened there?"

And I was being asked why I wanted to come back. And it’s simple for me and simple for everyone who knows me; I wanted to play in the best league and I wanted to prove to myself that I could play here and that I could be a good player and help a team win a championship.

That was my mistake and [a one-year deal] is what I got from it. It’s in the past and I think right now people see that it’s not the same that it was four years ago.

I could’ve waited longer, and maybe I would’ve got two or three years [had he not signed right away on July 1].

But after I got the first real offer from Marc, I just said, "F— it. I want to go and this is my chance, and I know it’s going to be one year, but I’ll try to do my best and prove to everybody that I can play here.’"
 

admiralcadillac

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Huh, I really thought that there was at least one team that were willing to give him 2. I could be wrong, but I'm too lazy to look it up so I'll take your word for it. Point still stands that Radulov had other options but still chose to sign with us.

Yeah apparently Detroit offered him a two year deal but there were no official press releases or anything so all of this is hearsay at this point.
 

BargainBinSpecial

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Alzner was not a premium UFA and is very far from the prototypical D most teams are after. He had known mobility issues and wear and tear. The only reason he signed in Montreal is that MB was dumb enough to rush to get him. Alzner doesn't help your argument one bit.

What Alzner believed is immaterial. What is telling is how his previous team, that actually won a Cup, knew when to cut bait and diminished his playing time in the last season of his contract. He had become a liability. Leave it to our GM and his advisors not to have been able to properly process what most of the rest of the league, already knew.
Ok, how about Cole, Cammalleri, Hamrlik, Gionta and Radulov.
 

BargainBinSpecial

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How about Moen? He brought so much glory, apparently.
I think we need to stop thinking that top UFAs don't want to come to Montreal. Kovalev and Petry were dealt away and chose to remain signing new deals come July 1st.

It's all about how much money a team is willing to give. All the other teams who attract top UFAs will overpay. After a few seasons, they realize it was a bad investment and look to unload the player.

Montreal has been more wiser with UFAs. The results speak for themselves, they have a lot of room on the cap.

Sometimes other factors like management and team performance play important roles too. A top UFA will go to a team that has the biggest chance to win with great coaching staff.

Montreal, has seen it's share of bad coaches, GMs and bad player development over the years. This is probably the biggest reason why many UFAs have second thoughts about the Habs.
 

Perrah

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I think we need to stop thinking that top UFAs don't want to come to Montreal. Kovalev and Petry were dealt away and chose to remain signing new deals come July 1st.

It's all about how much money a team is willing to give. All the other teams who attract top UFAs will overpay. After a few seasons, they realize it was a bad investment and look to unload the player.

Montreal has been more wiser with UFAs. The results speak for themselves, they have a lot of room on the cap.

Sometimes other factors like management and team performance play important roles too. A top UFA will go to a team that has the biggest chance to win with great coaching staff.

Montreal, has seen it's share of bad coaches, GMs and bad player development over the years. This is probably the biggest reason why many UFAs have second thoughts about the Habs.

Wiser? They offered Lucic more money than he is making now. How you can say they are wiser when they could have possibly had Lucic over Radulov and then they would have signed Alzner the summer after. On top of that the top 2 Center UFA's this past off season wouldnt entertain an offer from the wise Habs.
 
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BargainBinSpecial

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Wiser? They offered Lucic more money than he is making now. How you can say they are wiser when they could have possibly had Lucic over Radulov and then they would have signed Alzner the summer after. On top of that the top 2 Center UFA's this past off season wouldnt entertain an offer from the wise Habs.
If you read my whole post, I said that are other factors influence a player's decision such as the coaching staff and talent. Montreal has had pretty bad management over the years.
 

OldCraig71

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No expert here but if you were a top tier UFA would you not want to choose a location that was desirable and not just for the money but also for the potential chance to win? I mean, would J Tavares be a Leaf right now if the Leafs were still in no mans land like we are? I am willing to bet that the talent on the roster and the potential to win it all are very large factors in helping a ufa to see a team as a desirable place to spend the duration of a contract. If I were a ufa I too would want to at least see a team trending in the right direction and based on where we have been for the last 25 years I wouldn't blame any big name from wanting to play here.

We are not viewed by the rest of the league as being very good, I know there are those that think otherwise including our GM but top free agents do not look our way and lick their lips at the thought of being able to play with Phil Danault and Jordie Benn.
 

Perrah

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If you read my whole post, I said that are other factors influence a player's decision such as the coaching staff and talent. Montreal has had pretty bad management over the years.
I did read your whole post and dont disagree with the notion that other factors influence UFA's. I disagreed with the fact that you said they have been wiser with UFA's.
 

BargainBinSpecial

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I did read your whole post and dont disagree with the notion that other factors influence UFA's. I disagreed with the fact that you said they have been wiser with UFA's.
We can at least agree that Montreal has had bad management.

It's good that Lucic and Beleskey didn't end up here.
 
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Runner77

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Wiser? They offered Lucic more money than he is making now. How you can say they are wiser when they could have possibly had Lucic over Radulov and then they would have signed Alzner the summer after. On top of that the top 2 Center UFA's this past off season wouldnt entertain an offer from the wise Habs.

Agreed, so much "wiser" my ass. MB aggressively pursued Nick Bonino too.
 
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