OT: Career advice

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Thordic

StraightOuttaConklin
Jul 12, 2006
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. Perfectly fine, except that I was called "confrontational"

God I can't imagine what my review would look like if confrontational was looked at a negative here :help:

Unless you're a raging a-hole sounds like you're stuck in a bad team/bad management. I'll keep an eye out, I think I've seen a bunch of dev jobs posted lately but none are currently open. Our dev team is all over the place (Louisville, Jersey City, outside Boston, Denver, etc.)
 
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Kane One

Moderator
Feb 6, 2010
43,262
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Glad to hear some of you are moving forward. Always good news.

My situation has gotten worse. It's annual review time. My review. Perfectly fine, except that I was called "confrontational" once because I dared to question why QA was only 82% complete with testing on the last day of testing, and what they're plan would be if they found a defect in that last 18% of testing. Because I dared asked the question everyone wanted to, I'm the bad guy. I also dared ask why we need to go through the effort of putting together a plan for targeting zero defects from our developers when our developers are forced to code things in less than half the time they need, and they have no time for peer review, code review, and unit testing. Being Captain Obvious is bad when your manager is Captain Oblivious.

Anyway, my bonus was cut to where my total compensation this year will be less than my total compensation last year. Talk about message sending. I guess my manager wants unemotional robots who will produce the same quality of work 24/7 without fail. In theory, I would have been better off if I was just let go.

So, basically, I have zero motivation to do anything above bare minimum.

Ramped up my job search this weekend.

Anyone know anyone who needs either (this is all the stuff I do here):

Senior Level Business Analyst
Technical Systems Analyst
Release Coordinator/Project Coordination
Team Lead of all the above (and or Manager)
SCRUM Master
Project Manager

Consider relocation to almost anywhere. West Coast, DC area, and Illinois no.
Your issues with testing is exactly what’s going on where I am. Your points will all be valid here. We don’t test for shit and I don’t see that ever changing because our “tech leads” don’t seem to have any experience in working with tech, and are just project managers with incorrect titles.

Someone who worked here just quit (his last day yesterday). He was by far the best developer in our department. He also raised these concerns, got on the bad side of everyone above him, so he left because this shit won’t ever get better. I work in a hedge fund, and he told me every hedge fund is exactly the same; pretty much we don’t know shit.
 
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SnowblindNYR

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Update: My project is pretty cool. I forecasted a P&L and am now in the middle of doing a balance sheet and statement of cash flow. They're not the most complicated financial statements of all time, but it's good actual corporate finance experience. Which is great for when I move to another company. I've long wanted to do corporate finance. In the meantime, I dusted off an old undergrad textbook and I'm reminding myself on how these financial statements work.
 
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NYRKING30

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Apr 29, 2011
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Guys, I finally did it. I used Eminem in a lecture.

Not just a reference -- I played a bar on the smart board.

One of the highlights of my young career.
What do you teach? I love that you used Eminem haha I applaud you. #MakeAmericaSmartAgain #MASA
 

Machinehead

GoAwayTrouba
Jan 21, 2011
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What do you teach? I love that you used Eminem haha I applaud you. #MakeAmericaSmartAgain #MASA
Well, I do writing and sociology.

I wish it was writing because I could go on for hours about how this alien brain motherf***er puts lyrics in trochaic octameter and then switches to iambic heptameter mid-verse.

This was simpler. We were doing poverty today so I played the bar where he says "man, these god damn food stamps don't buy diapers."
 
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NYRKING30

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Well, I do writing and sociology.

I wish it was writing because I could go on for hours about how this alien brain mother****er puts lyrics in trochaic octameter and then switches to iambic heptameter mid-verse.

This was simpler. We were doing poverty today so I played the bar where he says "man, these god damn food stamps don't buy diapers."
Oh yeah man the guy is just one of a kind and has no comparison. I could go on and on for hours with you about him, I feel lucky that I was able to see him live and watch his career from the beginning.

Is this how millennials are taught today? I would have liked to actually see this. You could have also used Pac, but that has been done plenty of times before I think.
 

Machinehead

GoAwayTrouba
Jan 21, 2011
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Oh yeah man the guy is just one of a kind and has no comparison. I could go on and on for hours with you about him, I feel lucky that I was able to see him live and watch his career from the beginning.

Is this how millennials are taught today? I would have liked to actually see this. You could have also used Pac, but that has been done plenty of times before I think.
I started out student teaching in public school I found it to be rigid and pedantic. Everything is standardized and to the test.

Text books are great, don't get me wrong. You need that base to draw on. But I also believe that the best learning is done when you're having real discussions and doing normal activities; learning is natural that way.

In college we don't have state standards, so we have more freedom. We try to bring in things like relatable content, leisure, and current events. Engage them with the real world and things they might enjoy.

One of my favorite things we're doing in the writing academia is that comic books are becoming huge, and you wouldn't believe the content that MA and PhD level writers are pulling out of comic books. Every bit as rich as Shakespeare and Dickens.

The only issue I did notice with this is that they're not even millennials. Most of them are Gen X. Kids in my class this morning were still pissing themselves when 8 Mile came out and it made me feel ancient. I'm a millennial and I'm the damn teacher. I don't know where the years go.
 
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NYRKING30

Registered User
Apr 29, 2011
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I started out student teaching in public school I found it to be rigid and pedantic. Everything is standardized and to the test.

Text books are great, don't get me wrong. You need that base to draw on. But I also believe that the best learning is done when you're having real discussions and doing normal activities; learning is natural that way.

In college we don't have state standards, so we have more freedom. We try to bring in things like relatable content, leisure, and current events. Engage them with the real world and things they might enjoy.

One of my favorite things we're doing in the writing academia is that comic books are becoming huge, and you wouldn't believe the content that MA and PhD level writers are pulling out of comic books. Every bit as rich as Shakespeare and Dickens.

The only issue I did notice with this is that they're not even millennials. Most of them are Gen X. Kids in my class this morning were still pissing themselves when 8 Mile came out and it made me feel ancient. I'm a millennial and I'm the damn teacher. I don't know where the years go.
I agree about how the public school system is too basic and standard. They don't really seem to try to present things in a new way. For instance when I went to school, I hated Science. Long story short I became fascinated with Space and decided to watch some videos on youtube. I feel like I've learned a lot more on youtube then I ever did in a Science class. I wouldn't be surprised if people learned more from youtube now then they would through our magnificent public education. I'm surprised about the comic book part but I know I shouldn't be. Too bad the school system could have used more teachers that care and bring new ideas like you. As long you feel you made the right decision and are happy to be at the collegiate level now is all that matters. Keep preaching the gift of shady.
 
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SnowblindNYR

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Guys, I finally did it. I used Eminem in a lecture.

Not just a reference -- I played a bar on the smart board.

One of the highlights of my young career.

I remember in High School in a lecture on censorship, our teacher played "who knew" by Eminem. The teacher was this mile mannered man that I didn't even think knew dirty words. He cut it off in the part where Eminem said: "I'm sorry there must be a mix-up, you want me to fix up lyrics when the president gets his (fill in the blank)".
 
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SnowblindNYR

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So part of my job is responding to requests by salespeople. I've been busy for a month straight and therefore am behind. One, in particular, is extremely annoying about "following up". Anyway, I think I've been rude to her, at least that's what my friends tell me. I'm generally the type of person who goes out of his way not to be a dick. But I feel like this is a new position that I'm in and have a hard time saying things more diplomatically. Anyone experience this before?
 

UAGoalieGuy

Registered User
Dec 29, 2005
16,258
4,244
Richmond, VA
So part of my job is responding to requests by salespeople. I've been busy for a month straight and therefore am behind. One, in particular, is extremely annoying about "following up". Anyway, I think I've been rude to her, at least that's what my friends tell me. I'm generally the type of person who goes out of his way not to be a dick. But I feel like this is a new position that I'm in and have a hard time saying things more diplomatically. Anyone experience this before?

It's a fine line to walk. Sometimes you have to explain what you just said to people. It's a new role your getting yourself acclimated to and there has been an influx of requests as of recent.

Possibly when you get those requests in, ask for a due date and priority level (if you dont have an assigned SLA for these requests). That will help with prioritizing on your end and allow you to professionally push back at the time of original request.

For example, if they tell you they need X by next Wednesday but the priority level isnt urgent and with what you already have on your plate wont allow you to meet that deadline, you can say thank you for that information but due to the work that is ahead of your request and the priority level you provided, I wont be able to provide X until Y date.
 

UAGoalieGuy

Registered User
Dec 29, 2005
16,258
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Richmond, VA
Well its official! My company is moving me to Richmond from LI. Great opportunity but going to miss being so close to the beaches and NYC.

House is up for sales and going house hunting down there this weekend.
 
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dstoffa

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Jan 11, 2013
723
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I was called "confrontational" once because I dared to question why QA was only 82% complete with testing on the last day of testing, and what they're plan would be if they found a defect in that last 18% of testing. Because I dared asked the question everyone wanted to, I'm the bad guy. I also dared ask why we need to go through the effort of putting together a plan for targeting zero defects from our developers when our developers are forced to code things in less than half the time they need, and they have no time for peer review, code review, and unit testing. Being Captain Obvious is bad when your manager is Captain Oblivious.

I've noticed an increase in this in my line of work. I call it running the 4-way stop.

Products I have a part in developing pass through the hands of many. At some point, someone determined that they could get their product done by skipping steps, and running the 4-way stop sign, because whatever they missed or whatever error they created would be caught by someone else. Why should I stop if everyone else will?

Well, the problem is that:
1. Continued running of the 4-way stop sign reduces dollars and hours spent on a project - yes, but then it artificially reduces the perceived cost of developing that said product. Estimators then go in with these reduced numbers to win new work, and put the entire team behind the 8-ball before the job even starts.
2. Continued running of the 4-way stop sign works as long as others behave and follow the rules of the road. But if someone else in the product development line also runs the stop (misses / shortchanges on the same thing) - BOOM! Crash. Error.

I was having drinks with classmates from college, and one of them rolled off a bunch of rules. I wish I wrote them all down. But the one that I do remember is that when something goes bad, the root cause is never just one thing... It's several things that by themselves would not lead to failure, but when they align and contribute to each other, they do.

That's when the 4-way stop sign (and elohssa drivers) popped into my head. (I also thought of that old game Star Castle, but the 4-way stop sign relates easier)

I've resigned myself to realize that if I am the last wicket the ball has to pass through, it's on me to check everyone elses work, even if those before me have checked all the boxes. I know of no management team that would be willing to add layers and layers of checking to a product, as the cost of adding those layers results in the loss of the job to a cheaper bidder...

Sad, but true. I can feel your pain; twice as much because you were penalized for telling the truth and asking an honest question..
 
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Gardner McKay

RIP, Jimmy.
Jun 27, 2007
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So part of my job is responding to requests by salespeople. I've been busy for a month straight and therefore am behind. One, in particular, is extremely annoying about "following up". Anyway, I think I've been rude to her, at least that's what my friends tell me. I'm generally the type of person who goes out of his way not to be a ****. But I feel like this is a new position that I'm in and have a hard time saying things more diplomatically. Anyone experience this before?

Yeah. And I hope this doesn't come off as a ****, but you better figure out now how to say things more diplomatically. I don't care what job you have, more often than not, there are going to be people that you just want to ask "What the f*** is wrong with you?". Figuring out how to take that and say "is there anything else I can do for you" is your best course of action, other wise its going to be a career limiting issue.

Part of my job working in Human Resources is dealing with our salesforce. I know how frustrating it is. Say it to a fellow co-worker who isn't going to be bothered by it. Don't take it out on the sales folks. Otherwise, before you know it, you're going to piss off the wrong person with your attitude and they are going to say you are creating a hostile work environment.
 

SnowblindNYR

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It's a fine line to walk. Sometimes you have to explain what you just said to people. It's a new role your getting yourself acclimated to and there has been an influx of requests as of recent.

Possibly when you get those requests in, ask for a due date and priority level (if you dont have an assigned SLA for these requests). That will help with prioritizing on your end and allow you to professionally push back at the time of original request.

For example, if they tell you they need X by next Wednesday but the priority level isnt urgent and with what you already have on your plate wont allow you to meet that deadline, you can say thank you for that information but due to the work that is ahead of your request and the priority level you provided, I wont be able to provide X until Y date.

The priority is determined by my boss. So I do what he tells me to do first and when I have the time I try to make headway in these requests.
 

SnowblindNYR

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Yeah. And I hope this doesn't come off as a ****, but you better figure out now how to say things more diplomatically. I don't care what job you have, more often than not, there are going to be people that you just want to ask "What the **** is wrong with you?". Figuring out how to take that and say "is there anything else I can do for you" is your best course of action, other wise its going to be a career limiting issue.

Part of my job working in Human Resources is dealing with our salesforce. I know how frustrating it is. Say it to a fellow co-worker who isn't going to be bothered by it. Don't take it out on the sales folks. Otherwise, before you know it, you're going to piss off the wrong person with your attitude and they are going to say you are creating a hostile work environment.

To be fair this salesperson seems to like me and didn't at least seem bothered by it. She always says that I'm a nice guy. So it seems like my friends think it was worse than how she perceived it. Maybe I said it more diplomatically when talking to her than when I relayed it to my friends. And I'd say she IS a fellow co-worker, just not on my team.
 
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SnowblindNYR

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I guess I should state what I said that was called rude by my friends. I told her that I have to other things to do and when I get her requests I have to do them on a first come first serve basis. So I said asking me about it won't make me do it faster. I didn't try to be flippant. I just meant that there's a protocol I have to follow that I can't change. I can't go out of order for her because she follows up and it's unfair to the other sales people. I also can't get to the requests if the CFO is asking me to do an important project. But I get how it could have come off.
 

Gardner McKay

RIP, Jimmy.
Jun 27, 2007
25,509
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To be fair this salesperson seems to like me and didn't at least seem bothered by it. She always says that I'm a nice guy. So it seems like my friends think it was worse than how she perceived it. Maybe I said it more diplomatically when talking to her than when I relayed it to my friends. And I'd say she IS a fellow co-worker, just not on my team.

Well, that is a bit of a different story lol.
 
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Fongule

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Aug 12, 2013
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Durbanville, South Africa
Well its official! My company is moving me to Richmond from LI. Great opportunity but going to miss being so close to the beaches and NYC.

House is up for sales and going house hunting down there this weekend.
Richmond is a dump, cheap real estate, but it’s gradually getting worse. I’d live in a suburb outside the city for sure. West Richmond, Henrico, Glen Allen, and colonial heights are nice areas. Williamsburg is less then an hour away and very nice, definitely worth the commute.
 
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