GDT: CAR - TBL

Roboturner913

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Jul 3, 2012
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Fleury in the first half of last season was smart, solid and played within himself. whatever may have happened late last season, I'm not inclined to pin too much on him since he was a rookie on a team that went to dogshit. I feel like the "good" Fleury we saw early on was probably close to what we can expect of him long term. On this team maybe that only makes him a 6/7 d-man right now and that's OK, it beats the hell out of somebody like Dahlbeck.
 

Roboturner913

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Jul 3, 2012
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Didn’t follow the game, saw we won, then saw a 26-page GDT.

Did I miss something? Big fight/injury? Or is it just everyone being hype that hockey is finally back?

Stamkos, Hedman, Vasislevsky, Kucherov, Stralman, Girardi, Johnson, etc. all played and the Canes played all kids and AHLers and beat the living dogshit out of them.
 

tarheelhockey

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So yeah, that was a pretty encouraging game. Not sure what you can really take away on a team level, being preseason, but on an individual level we had a whole bunch of guys show up and make their case.

Biggest thing for me was we saw the Svechnikov we’ve been waiting for. He’s just got so many traits that you want in a player. My favorite was when he made a bad pass in the offensive zone, and instead of gaping in confusion he chased down the puck carrier, jumped all over his back, and stripped the puck away for a teammate to get it right back into the zone. Or when Tampa’s goalie had the puck calmly behind the net and suddenly a red jersey streaks in from his blind side to turn it over. Those kinds of plays are not normal to see from a scoring winger. If he delivers offensively, this kid will be on a higher tier than a Kessel or Laine type player.

Surprised to see people being so rough on Fleury. The guy just turned 22, as a defenseman. He’s fine.

I’m not completely sold on Bean yet, but I do like the stylistic changeup he brings to our group. On a team full of big lumbering guys who just want to get the puck to someone else, he’s an interesting asset. My concern is he seems to play smaller than his size, but maybe that comes with time for him. In any case I think he’s made a strong argument to be part of the long term plans here and not just another trading chip.

I’m really interested to see how tonight’s group comes to play. Tampa’s group is likely going to have a fire under their asses. Big night for Necas to show where he stands relative to the rest of these guys.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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I’m not completely sold on Bean yet, but I do like the stylistic changeup he brings to our group. On a team full of big lumbering guys who just want to get the puck to someone else, he’s an interesting asset. My concern is he seems to play smaller than his size, but maybe that comes with time for him. In any case I think he’s made a strong argument to be part of the long term plans here and not just another trading chip.

In fairness, he is only 173 lbs, so at 6'1", that IS pretty small for an NHL defenseman.
 

GoldiFox

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Apr 21, 2014
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My random and worthless thoughts from Preseason Game No. 1:
  • Andrei Svechnikov is as-advertised. Big, fast, smart, skilled. Did it all tonight. If he has games like this in the regular season, he'll be in the Calder race all year.
  • I like Jake Bean's game more than Noah Hanifin's. Bean picks his spots, where Hanifin just went all the time. The result is fewer "oops" moments, and more control. Especially on the power play. where I think Bean would be an upgrade on Hanifin right now.
  • Hadyn Fleury is the very definition of "meh." I would not be surprised to see him sent back to Charlotte, especially with the massive logjam we have on defense. Considering Hamilton, de Haan, Slavin, Pesce, Faulk and TvR are locks, I'm not sure that's even a stretch at this point. I'd rather keep Fora, Cajkovsky and/or Carrick if all they're going to do is watch from the press box. Bean, McKeown, Fleury and Fora would be a decent Top 4 in Charlotte, no?
  • Far too much has been made of Valentin Zykov's skating and not enough of Lucas Wallmark's. I think Wallmark's ceiling is as a fourth-liner in the NHL, and maybe a second power-play unit (where his skating is less of an issue). I don't see any reason Zykov can't stay in our Top 6 all season and compete with Svech in goal scoring.
  • Greg McKegg was really good. Seemed faster than I thought he was.
  • Pu, Bishop, DiGuiseppe were basically invisible.
  • I'm treating the goaltending like a pitcher working on a no-no.

Was watching Zykov closely all night. Didn’t see any skating concerns. Speed was good and his gaps were tight on the forecheck and on the boards. He looks so damn big on the ice, it constantly surprises me.
 

bluedevil58

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Oct 19, 2017
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Fleury in the first half of last season was smart, solid and played within himself. whatever may have happened late last season, I'm not inclined to pin too much on him since he was a rookie on a team that went to dog****. I feel like the "good" Fleury we saw early on was probably close to what we can expect of him long term. On this team maybe that only makes him a 6/7 d-man right now and that's OK, it beats the hell out of somebody like Dahlbeck.

Waste of a 1st round pick if that's all he will be.
 
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tarheelhockey

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In fairness, he is only 173 lbs, so at 6'1", that IS pretty small for an NHL defenseman.

I guess I’m saying it’s one thing to be small, it’s another thing to play small. Bean’s obviously never going to be out there throwing people around, but the guys who have his physical dimensions and have been successful as defensemen (the Enstroms, Russells, Spurgeons) have at least a little tenacity in them, and willingness to engage. Bean’s got some growing to do in that respect, some physical and some mental.
 

tarheelhockey

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Waste of a 1st round pick if that's all he will be.

We already know it wasn’t a great pick, based on the players taken immediately after him.

But getting a long-term asset on defense, someone who reliably holds it down for 5-10 years, doesn’t need to be managed, doesn’t end up getting overpaid, that’s not a disaster. It’s a disappointing pick but not a waste.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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Sep 6, 2006
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I guess I’m saying it’s one thing to be small, it’s another thing to play small. Bean’s obviously never going to be out there throwing people around, but the guys who have his physical dimensions and have been successful as defensemen (the Enstroms, Russells, Spurgeons) have at least a little tenacity in them, and willingness to engage. Bean’s got some growing to do in that respect, some physical and some mental.

That's fair and I agree he will need to grow in that area. He did just turn pro though so there's plenty of time. I don't ever think he'll play "big" though, and that's ok. There are players that play small and are very effective as well without much physical engagement. Ghostisbehere and Justin Schultz come to mind in the current crop of defenders. A lot of it, IMO, has to do with the confidence to play to your strengths and not try to be something your not.
 

MinJaBen

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We already know it wasn’t a great pick, based on the players taken immediately after him.

But getting a long-term asset on defense, someone who reliably holds it down for 5-10 years, doesn’t need to be managed, doesn’t end up getting overpaid, that’s not a disaster. It’s a disappointing pick but not a waste.
My guess is he is likely Seattle bound. And with guys like Bean and Fox as options behind him, or maybe a guy like Cajkovsky that you can pick up as a PTO, that is not a big loss in my opinion. We'd be better off with a more offensive threat from the left side third pair if the pairings are going to be Slavin-Hamilton, de Haan-Faulk, 3rd left-Pesce. Putting Fleury in the 3rd left spot seems like a wasted opportunity.
 

tarheelhockey

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Svechnikov just appeared out of nowhere too. Sweet all around

Seeing this consistently in his approach to the offensive zone. He likes to circle way up high and then cut to the net along with the puck, and his instincts are strong enough that he seems to “magically” arrive at just the right instant when the defense is breaking down. I’m not sure I’ve seen him stand still yet.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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Sep 6, 2006
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Seeing this consistently in his approach to the offensive zone. He likes to circle way up high and then cut to the net along with the puck, and his instincts are strong enough that he seems to “magically” arrive at just the right instant when the defense is breaking down. I’m not sure I’ve seen him stand still yet.

I also noticed that he anticipates where the puck is going to end up very well, similar how Aho does. There were times on the forecheck, when Wallmark or Zykov was going deep and he peeled off and went right to where the clearing attempt was going. Same goes for plays behind the net.

Small sample, but he sure looks to be a very smart player.
 

bleedgreen

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Just watched the highlights as well. Svech did indeed look great in the limited views you get, he was playing with much more purpose than up to now. I think it’s a good idea to split up he and Necas and let them find their own way through camp and the early part of the season.

On the Bean vs Fleury conversation....I like them both. I’ve never hated the Fleury pick and I still don’t. He’s a big, strong, pretty smart defenseman who can skate reasonably well and isn’t afraid to play the body. That doesn’t sound bad to me. He’s needed a year of adjustment before, I’m pretty curious what he can do this year. Guys like him don’t grow on trees and he could very well carve out a long career. He was better defensively than Hanifin from his first game. He plays the position well. Quicker feet and he’s on his way. He’s slow on his changes of direction and his first two steps, which is death if you want a higher level guy.

Bean I think is pretty valueable asset. Whoever said he’s a better pp qb already compared to Hanifin is right but that’s because they’re different players. I’ve never seen Hanifin as a pp qb. He can skate laterally a bit with the puck but it isn’t very smooth, he’s much better in straight lines rushing up the ice. To me Hanifin is Jbo or Hedican, without the defense for now. Bean is the prototypical qb, Phil Housley style. Great hands and deception with the puck, great laterally and knows how to use that skill while having the stones to hold the puck in tight spaces under pressure against the line. Can he play d? We’ll find out. I think he’s more intelligent than Hanifin defensively as well, but he has to learn how to use his abilities at the highest level.

I’ve never understood the Canadian hate of Bean, and don’t care. He’s a very good player. We’ll see if he transitions.
 

bluedevil58

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Oct 19, 2017
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We already know it wasn’t a great pick, based on the players taken immediately after him.

But getting a long-term asset on defense, someone who reliably holds it down for 5-10 years, doesn’t need to be managed, doesn’t end up getting overpaid, that’s not a disaster. It’s a disappointing pick but not a waste.

I'm not sure I agree with you. 6/7 guys are a dime a dozen. A 7th overall pick should be more than this. Otherwise it's a doozie. Teams historically build from the draft. We have seen us trade out 1st round picks lately. Skinner, Lindy, Hanifin. One could argue we got Hamilton in return which is fair.

But trading away our 1st rounders while potentially watching others not live up to their potential isn't a great spot to be in. Especially that Skinner for Pu trade. Complete disaster.
 

Svechhammer

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My takeaways from Preseason Game 1

Its going to be extremely difficult to tamper my excitement over what Svechnikov is going to bring to this team going forward. He already looks the part of The Missing Piece.

Goaltending passed their first test. Mrazek stopped all 9 shots. Very small sample size, but considering who Tampa was playing and who we were icing, not seeing them get lit up was a pleasant surprise.
 

Svechhammer

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Jun 8, 2017
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I'm not sure I agree with you. 6/7 guys are a dime a dozen. A 7th overall pick should be more than this. Otherwise it's a doozie. Teams historically build from the draft. We have seen us trade out 1st round picks lately. Skinner, Lindy, Hanifin. One could argue we got Hamilton in return which is fair.

But trading away our 1st rounders while potentially watching others not live up to their potential isn't a great spot to be in. Especially that Skinner for Pu trade. Complete disaster.
And your point? We all accept Fleury was a swing and a miss at 7OA. If Hanifin at 5OA was a disappointment, Fleury is a disaster. He should be more than he is, but he's not, and that's not changing. But dwelling on something that happened 4 years ago under a different owner, GM, and coach. I dunno, just doesn't seem worthwhile.
 

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