Captain Boroweicki

[aragorn]

Last time I checked this is the NHL and just like I won't accept Dorion's "A FOR EFFORT" bull****, I'm not going to accept "Mark Borowiecki works really hard". Sports is results based. Mark Borowiecki's results are terrible and yet we keep re-signing him and playing him.

And yes, there are 4 other players on the ice and a goalie but at a certain point if the goalie changes, the defensive partner changes, the forward lines change... the only common denominator in Borowiecki's awful stat lines is.... Mark Borowiecki. If everything changes and you (Borowiecki) stay the same... and we still lose the game or get outscored... YOU are the problem, not the 4 other guys and the goalie.

There are so many other problems with this team than the 6th D, to blame him for all that ails this team is wrong & people love to pile on the guy as the object of their hatred. It's a team game & everyone on the ice takes blame for goals against as they do for goals for.

 

[Knave]

There are so many other problems with this team than the 6th D, to blame him for all that ails this team is wrong & people love to pile on the guy as the object of their hatred. It's a team game & everyone on the ice takes blame for goals against as they do for goals for.

He is really bad. He's not the reason we are in last place but like I've said a bunch of times now: he's the easiest fix. You can replace him with almost anyone and improve.

Ride him out until the end of the season if you really want but then it's time to sign an UFA, ideally a reasonably good one so we can shove everyone down one on the depth charge and scratch Borowiecki.

 

[aragorn]

He is really bad. He's not the reason we are in last place but like I've said a bunch of times now: he's the easiest fix. You can replace him with almost anyone and improve.

Ride him out until the end of the season if you really want but then it's time to sign an UFA, ideally a reasonably good one so we can shove everyone down one on the depth charge and scratch Borowiecki.

They've had guys replace him numerous times this yr because of injuries he sustained blocking shots, fighting for his teammates & from his monstrous hits. And every time the COACH, not EM puts him right back in there when he comes back from injury. On a side note, you should read what Crawford had to say about losing Smith & him not playing last night & his importance to the team. Not at all what I read about him on here either.

 

[BonkTastic]

Also, no hes not most likely to be scored on. You have to prove that and you haven't. Anyone can make things up.

I ran the numbers in excel.

Based strictly on goals per minute on the ice, with NO OTHER CONTEXT (ie: usage, matchups, anything at all), he's the 2nd worst defenceman after Ceci, despite playing the fewest minutes out of anyone in our top-6 (top-6 being defined strictly by # of minutes played).

DEFENCE	GA	MINS	GA/min
Ceci	103	1529	0.067
Borowiecki	51	776	0.066
Harpur	53	840	0.063
Wideman	16	257	0.0625
DeMelo	83	1342	0.0621
Chabot	92	1519	0.0605
Lajoie	64	1058	0.0604
Jaros	46	774	0.059
Wolanin	21	408	0.051
FORWARDS	GA	MINS	GA/min
Pyatt (lol)	31	433	0.071
Tierney	86	1264	0.068
Boedker	63	949	0.0664
Dzingel	67	1011	0.0662
Duchene	63	962	0.065
Paajarvi	60	981	0.061
White	62	1024	0.060
Ryan	64	1142	0.056
Stone	66	1213	0.054
Pageau	30	564	0.053
Tkachuk	53	1002	0.0528
Z. Smith (!!!)	53	1065	0.049

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

... I'll be honest, that Zack Smith number is hella-surprising.

 

[Alex1234]

I ran the numbers in excel.

Based strictly on goals per minute on the ice, with NO OTHER CONTEXT (ie: usage, matchups, anything at all), he's the 2nd worst defenceman after Ceci, despite playing the fewest minutes out of anyone in our top-6 (top-6 being defined strictly by # of minutes played).

DEFENCE	GA	MINS	GA/min
Ceci	103	1529	0.067
Borowiecki	51	776	0.066
Harpur	53	840	0.063
Wideman	16	257	0.0625
DeMelo	83	1342	0.0621
Chabot	92	1519	0.0605
Lajoie	64	1058	0.0604
Jaros	46	774	0.059
Wolanin	21	408	0.051
FORWARDS	GA	MINS	GA/min
Pyatt (lol)	31	433	0.071
Tierney	86	1264	0.068
Boedker	63	949	0.0664
Dzingel	67	1011	0.0662
Duchene	63	962	0.065
Paajarvi	60	981	0.061
White	62	1024	0.060
Ryan	64	1142	0.056
Stone	66	1213	0.054
Pageau	30	564	0.053
Tkachuk	53	1002	0.0528
Z. Smith (!!!)	53	1065	0.049

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

... I'll be honest, that Zack Smith number is hella-surprising.

Who would have thought that about Ceci and Boro...

 

[leftwinglocker]

LOL @ 3 decimal places of significance. Priceless stuff.

 

[solidprospect]

I wonder if your goals against per minute is higher if you kill penalties every game and the others don't. It's so nice that you include him with the other players that get to play 5 on 5 or power play all the time and not have as many goals against. Nothing predicatable there.

 

[BonkTastic]

LOL @ 3 decimal places of significance. Priceless stuff.

The fact that you looked at that table and came to this terrible conclusion, rather than immediately considering it within the context of standard deviation, tells me you have no business interpreting statistics at this level.

 

[BonkTastic]

I wonder if your goals against per minute is higher if you kill penalties every game and the others don't. It's so nice that you include him with the other players that get to play 5 on 5 or power play all the time and not have as many goals against. Nothing predicatable there.

I LITERALLY provided statistics for EXACTLY what was asked, and went out of my way to SPECIFICALLY mention that. There was absolutely no misdirection or malice intended on my part. The demand was for a VERY basic statistic, and I provided information on that VERY basic statistic, and even mentioned that there was no context present other than the very raw, simple numbers.

[mod]

 

[coladin]

Rebuilds take several years.

Why are you against making one small immediate improvement right now? It's like scraping your knee and breaking your arm and deciding to not clean or bandage your knee because your arm is broken. Why not treat both? Go to emergency and get your arm set and cast. Clean your knee and bandage it up.

But instead you want to do nothing about the knee, have an infection and let it fester and maybe we lose the entire leg.

That is a good analogy

 

[Knave]

Let me try to help.

If you assume a reasonable +-10% error in TOI tracking (eg a 50 sec shift could be 45-55), that means any values between .054 and .066 are equivalent

That's not how it works. You don't assume -10% for one and only one to get a desired result. How are you even getting 10%? Do you know how TOI is tracked? Have you done a study to show 10% is a reasonable assumption?

As someone skeptical of analytics I find it pretty hilarious you'll post graphics with breakdowns using TOI and support conclusions with analytics and yet here you are "THIS STUFF IS UNRELIABLE".

So now we are back to Borowiecki and the eye test. And it says that whenever a good player gets on the ice for the opposing team, the priority of our team is to get Mark Borowiecki off the ice so we don't get scored on.

 

[Micklebot]

That is a good analogy

Idk, losing a leg seems like a serious , life changing, situation, while letting Boro play on the third pair seems like an easy to rectify nuance...

Just kidding, I agree, solid analogy. At the end of the day, why put off fixing what can be easily be done today?

 

[BonkTastic]

Since someone wanted some PK info, I went ahead and ran the same BASIC (I can't stress this enough, this is very, very basic data, with no context) formula for PK goals per minute, and Boro is basically our worst "regular" PK defenceman (I use quotes around the word "regular" because he's basically bad enough on the PK that coaches have stopped using him there regularly, though with Lajoie being sent down he's getting more minutes now than he did earlier in the season, and has picked up 2nd PK unit mins in the home stretch)

I suppose it depends how you see Jaros, but he's been used VERY sparringly on the PK this year - he's 6th in defensive PK TOI, so it's not exactly like he's a first choice this season. He's not getting the job done on the PK, but at the same time coaches are seeing that and not using him there, either. Boro isn't exactly the first guy coaches are using on the PK here either - he's 5th in Defensive PK TOI, and not exactly making a case for getting any more than the small handfull of PK time he's already getting.

DEFENCEMAN	SH GA	SH TOI	SH GA/min
Jaros	7	31	0.226
Borowiecki	14	74	0.190
Ceci	24	173	0.139
Lajoie	14	103	0.136
Harpur	13	116	0.112
DeMelo	12	120	0.100

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Again: these are VERY BASIC STATS. There's little context here. Please consider this caveat.


Fun Fact: this basic (BASIC!!!) data set suggests that Pageau and Zack Smith are our best PK forwards by A FRIGGING COUNTRY MILE. Pageau seems obvious, but Smith, like the last time, is quite surprising.

 

[stempniaksen]

That is a good analogy

Not sure the seriousness of a possible infection can be applied to something as insignificant as sports.

 

[solidprospect]

We made the playoffs with Boro before, but can that be done again, absolutely not.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

We made the playoffs with Boro before, but can that be done again, absolutely not.

We just need more players like him on the team and we'll be on our way to a cup.

 

[BonkTastic]

We made the playoffs with Boro before, but can that be done again, absolutely not.

Jared Boll has 11 career playoff games. Bad players can be on playoff teams. It happens. What's your point?

I mean... Honestly, if that's how far back you've moved the goalposts in this debate, there's really nothing else to say, is there?

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

We just need more players like him on the team and we'll be on our way to a cup.

Touché

 

[Agent Zub]

We made the playoffs with Boro before, but can that be done again, absolutely not.

the biggest add of the 2017 playoffs run was boro getting injured.

 

[God Says No]

We made the playoffs with Boro before, but can that be done again, absolutely not.

...but had the longest run without him.

Fun Fact: this basic (BASIC!!!) data set suggests that Pageau and Zack Smith are our best PK forwards by A FRIGGING COUNTRY MILE. Pageau seems obvious, but Smith, like the last time, is quite surprising.

Cool stuff, but actually I'm not surprised. He's very good at PK. That's pretty much his only redeemable quality.

 

[solidprospect]

The narrative that Smith is good at defending and Boro isn't.

Worry about the guy on for 50ish goals against instead of 103.

Boro and Smith are on for about %19 of our teams goals against this year. Not their fault at all.

We actually have a checking line when young talent filters in.

Patience and stuff.

 

[philb613]

I enjoy how passionate people are about our third pairing defenceman. Now can we start one about Ben Harpur

 

[Knave]

I enjoy how passionate people are about our third pairing defenceman. Now can we start one about Ben Harpur

He is the easiest fix to make, you can replace him with nearly anyone and enjoy a small improvement. I don't understand why some people are so adamant that we can't bench him and we also have to dress him in our top 6 next year. And some of them think he should be our captain.

Go start a "Ben Harpur should be captain and guaranteed a roster spot regardless of his play thread".

 

[branch]

The narrative that Smith is good at defending and Boro isn't.

Worry about the guy on for 50ish goals against instead of 103.

Boro and Smith are on for about %19 of our teams goals against this year. Not their fault at all.

We actually have a checking line when young talent filters in.

Patience and stuff.

Have you ever played hockey at a competitive level?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I enjoy how passionate people are about our third pairing defenceman. Now can we start one about Ben Harpur

Too low profile. Boro is a marginal NHL Dman. He has tremendous passion and he plays with grit and effort. A #6 on a few teams in the league. A #7 on some. Not in the picture on several. His interview with Melnyk was absolutely priceless.