Post-Game Talk: Caps stumble but then bully their way to a 5-4 OTW over the Cats.

[iam76]

How was matheson last night.

 

[ProjectPanthers]

So youd be happier if we were our normal 3-7-5 but only giving up 2 goals a game?

There is no strategy where you can play 100% for the entire game. Rip on the whole team as a defensive unit, not just the defensemen. The top line isnt really shining brightly in our own end.

We collapse to force perimeter shots but the downfall is deflections or these bad bounce goals against.
We spread out like Boughners system to limit point shots and we will leave the slot open more.

You cant have it both ways.
At the start of the year, we would all be fairly happy with a 103pt pace.
Have some faith the D will come together as we have Matheson back now after 2 weeks and still missing our 2C.

Q even said himself itll be 20 games in before the system is fully installed.
We are built like the Leafs, sounds like you'd be happier if we were more like Carolina who can defend but will have problems scoring.

I did criticize the forwards. Barkov has been down right awful defensively. Don't know how many goals against this year have been him just standing around or making a lackluster effort on his man.

Also, if we are built like the Leafs we are in big trouble. The Leafs are NOT a good hockey team and get bodied by any team that knows how to handle themselves in their own end.

Yes I'm happy with the point pace, but how sustainable is that? What if one of Barkov or Huby goes down? Can our offense keep us afloat? Look at last year's playoffs. Every team that advanced was strong defensively. This team is not that. We have an under-performing goaltender and system that clearly needs some tweaks.

Your takes on it being "one or the other" are just awful. Good teams are good teams, they play at both ends and play responsibly. It's like you haven't watched good hockey in a long time or something. For Carolina's "problems scoring", they've scored 3 goals less than the Panthers this season while giving up 10 less. Not sure what you're trying to get at but good teams find ways at all ends of the ice.

Listen, I am proud of this team and their start to the season. They look very much improved and seem poised to reach the post season. But I need to see some improvement to know if they are for real or not. We're good enough to win games 5-4 and pull off these crazy comebacks, but are we good enough to win a 2-1 game against strong opposition when we need to buckle down and hold a lead?

So far I haven't seen that yet this year. Our offense has saved our asses almost every game it feels.

 

[GrumpyKelly]

How was matheson last night.

Looked really good imo.

 

[RogerRoger]

Bottom line is it's been 15 games and we have seen little improvement in the Goals Against department. Bob 100% needs to be sharper, but the team needs to be better in front of him as well. I don't understand the space the forwards give the d-men in the offensive zone. Teams score a lot of their goals against us on point shots that are either deflected or saved for a juicy rebound....maybe it's time to implement a strategy that limits the quality of points shots?

That's a way to limit high danger shots, but the issue is that Bob isn't good at rebound control and our dmen can't swipe away rebounds consistently.

We give up scoring chances like crazy. It's just a fact.

That's not true and it's not backed by anything. It's just bias because you can't watch every other games and see what happen throughout the league.

 

[zeroG]

So youd be happier if we were our normal 3-7-5 but only giving up 2 goals a game?

There is no strategy where you can play 100% for the entire game. Rip on the whole team as a defensive unit, not just the defensemen. The top line isnt really shining brightly in our own end.

We collapse to force perimeter shots but the downfall is deflections or these bad bounce goals against.
We spread out like Boughners system to limit point shots and we will leave the slot open more.

You cant have it both ways.
At the start of the year, we would all be fairly happy with a 103pt pace.
Have some faith the D will come together as we have Matheson back now after 2 weeks and still missing our 2C.

Q even said himself itll be 20 games in before the system is fully installed.
We are built like the Leafs, sounds like you'd be happier if we were more like Carolina who can defend but will have problems scoring.

Yandle may be moved in offseason and Hoffman will likely be gone. Tallon has already hinted at getting a shutdown LD, but the one he wants likely (top 3/4) wont be available until later in the year when teams know if they're pushing for playoffs or pushing for a better draft pick

like others have said, one shutdown D isn't going to change things.

if you're playing good team defense, you can mitigate a weakness of any particular approach.

i mentioned something similar to the bolded part in another thread - it takes some time to set expectations, establish a culture of accountability and really get the players all on the same page. much of training camp is just winnowing the roster and getting guys ready for the speed of the regular season.

this will be an interesting period right now - home for a while with some days off. now Q has a feel for what his roster can do, he can hone in on the details with them.

on a positive note, it seems like barkov has located his confidence. and, as others have said, we are on pace for playoffs. just need to realize that we aren't yet playing good defensive hockey consistently.

 

[pantherbot]

It's pretty obvious that he's not a fit in Q's system. He doesn't go to the dirty areas at all while every other guy on the team does. Now, he can still get points off the PP and yeah he can make an impact if he's scoring. But for this team right now, he's nothing more than a Pirri who can skate a bit better.

He's not a lunch pail kind of guy. I think Q is a good enough coach to recognize that each guy has their strengths and weaknesses and he plays them to their strengths. Hoff doesn't fit the hard working gritty guy most hockey fans and coaches love, but it doesn't mean he's not useful.

I'm a huge acciari fan now, love the hustle vatrano brings every night, really impressed with malgin this year. But a team full of acciari's, vatrano's, and malgin's aren't going to score. You have your dirty area guys and you have that 'lazy' guy to get the puck in the net. No he's not working as hard as the other guys and he coasting on talent. So what? Doesn't mean crap if we outwork the team every night and don't score.

If your argument is to trade hoff for defense, then fine. But it better be equal value because trading away a 60 pt guy making $5M is hard to replace. Don't know why you're all in such a rush to lose him.

 

[Gentle Man]

He's not a lunch pail kind of guy. I think Q is a good enough coach to recognize that each guy has their strengths and weaknesses and he plays them to their strengths. Hoff doesn't fit the hard working gritty guy most hockey fans and coaches love, but it doesn't mean he's not useful.

I'm a huge acciari fan now, love the hustle vatrano brings every night, really impressed with malgin this year. But a team full of acciari's, vatrano's, and malgin's aren't going to score. You have your dirty area guys and you have that 'lazy' guy to get the puck in the net. No he's not working as hard as the other guys and he coasting on talent. So what? Doesn't mean crap if we outwork the team every night and don't score.

If your argument is to trade hoff for defense, then fine. But it better be equal value because trading away a 60 pt guy making $5M is hard to replace. Don't know why you're all in such a rush to lose him.

Because the majority of a game is played 5v5.

I'd rather trade him personally for another forward that can play 5v5.

You cannot have a 2nd line winger, which he is especially when Trocheck returns, that cant play 5v5.

Q preaches the possession game and Hoff downright kills that. He has scored goals in only 4 games this year. Maybe he is struggling, ok. Sure.

But if you are going to ask me whether I prefer a guy that can score 30 but needs the PP to get almost half of them or someone who can get 20 to 25 but doesnt need the PP, give me the 5v5 player all day everyday.

 

[RogerRoger]

If your argument is to trade hoff for defense, then fine. But it better be equal value because trading away a 60 pt guy making $5M is hard to replace. Don't know why you're all in such a rush to lose him.

Yeah, and we are playing Pysyk at RW, so clearly our forward depth isn't good.

 

[pantherbot]

Because the majority of a game is played 5v5.

I'd rather trade him personally for another forward that can play 5v5.

You cannot have a 2nd line winger, which he is especially when Trocheck returns, that cant play 5v5.

Q preaches the possession game and Hoff downright kills that. He has scored goals in only 4 games this year. Maybe he is struggling, ok. Sure.

But if you are going to ask me whether I prefer a guy that can score 30 but needs the PP to get almost half of them or someone who can get 20 to 25 but doesnt need the PP, give me the 5v5 player all day everyday.

Sure I'd go for the complete player who can score 20-25 goals too. Where are you going to find him right now? Hoff is what we have and as klabob pointed out, it's not like we have a plethora of options at forward.

And btw, hoff had the 4th most 5v5 points on our team last year behind only HBD, playing without a legit center for half the time. He's not playing great 5v5 right now and maybe that's his decline and maybe it's because he doesn't fit Q's system or maybe he's just in a slump.

Players like him don't just grow on trees. It would be so stupid for us to just throw him away. The hate on him is ridiculous.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

I did criticize the forwards. Barkov has been down right awful defensively. Don't know how many goals against this year have been him just standing around or making a lackluster effort on his man.

Also, if we are built like the Leafs we are in big trouble. The Leafs are NOT a good hockey team and get bodied by any team that knows how to handle themselves in their own end.

Yes I'm happy with the point pace, but how sustainable is that? What if one of Barkov or Huby goes down? Can our offense keep us afloat? Look at last year's playoffs. Every team that advanced was strong defensively. This team is not that. We have an under-performing goaltender and system that clearly needs some tweaks.

Your takes on it being "one or the other" are just awful. Good teams are good teams, they play at both ends and play responsibly. It's like you haven't watched good hockey in a long time or something. For Carolina's "problems scoring", they've scored 3 goals less than the Panthers this season while giving up 10 less. Not sure what you're trying to get at but good teams find ways at all ends of the ice.

Listen, I am proud of this team and their start to the season. They look very much improved and seem poised to reach the post season. But I need to see some improvement to know if they are for real or not. We're good enough to win games 5-4 and pull off these crazy comebacks, but are we good enough to win a 2-1 game against strong opposition when we need to buckle down and hold a lead?

So far I haven't seen that yet this year. Our offense has saved our asses almost every game it feels.

CAR also played an extra game and are still behind us in goals....

The only team I see doing it at both ends convincingly this year is BOS. That's it.
Who are these other teams winning 4-1 every night?

If you think we're going to win every game 2-1 or dominate every team then your expectations are way too high.

We beat NSH, PIT and EDM and held them to 2 goals each....That's 3 of our 7 wins right there.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

They were off their game with the time off. And so was Washington. That game is almost a write-off to me. In the end it was just Washington being battle tested that got them to pull it out. Hopefully they improve on Saturday. They will have to.

 

[Boothinator]

 

[PJ817]

Okay. I apologize for chastising whoever criticized these posts before.

well, is it true or not?

If you believe that teams are going to take on suspected "cancer" then Hoffy isn't trade bait. Drouin is a known drama-llama which is why, I believe, he's still on MTL (no one wants him)...

I don't really care what people think of me... or you. My points and thoughts are valid, as they were with the Bolts in 2017, when I said #FireCoop (now people are finally seeing what I was saying... funny how smart people work)

 

[GrumpyKelly]

Hoping that Trocheck can get Hoffman going. If not, I don't know what options are left.

 

[Gentle Man]

Never knew our staff can resurrect people.

Honestly, probably a zombie

 

[vendetta]

There answer is Bob is playing better then his numbers. We give up scoring chances like crazy. It's just a fact. Thank God bobs here

It’s not a fact. The only fact is the numbers and eye test say we don’t. It’s just fabrication by fans to make our 10 m dollar goalie not accountable.

 

[Gentle Man]

The Toninator looked good last night. With Trocheck back and Acciari getting embalmed, I'd expect

HBD
Hoffboy Zombie Conman
Vatrano Malgin Toninator
Hunt Boyle Sceviour

Weegs Eks
Math Strals
Yands Pisss

 

[Boothinator]

The Toninator looked good last night. With Trocheck back and Acciari getting embalmed, I'd expect

HBD
Hoffboy Zombie Conman
Vatrano Malgin Toninator
Hunt Boyle Sceviour

Weegs Eks
Math Strals
Yands Pisss

I would actually stick with Toninato at center. Not sure Boyle is a good fit on the 4th. Then you have two slow guys with Sceves

 

[Boothinator]

So maybe Boston then? But having Tro back is huge. Toninato played well enough last night to be in the lineup

 

[Gentle Man]

I would actually stick with Toninato at center. Not sure Boyle is a good fit on the 4th. Then you have two slow guys with Sceves

Boyle was paired with Hunt and Sceviour during practice rushes so...just be prepared to see it.

 

[pantherbot]

It’s not a fact. The only fact is the numbers and eye test say we don’t. It’s just fabrication by fans to make our 10 m dollar goalie not accountable.

What are you talking about? The High Danger stats are not favorable to Panthers. Not sure what site you're looking at.

Using naturalstattrick, we are actually ranked 8th worst at 5v5 and 5th worst on a per games played basis. So...actually we actually give up more high danger shots. Also interestingly, because we don't give up many shots, 32% of the shots we do give up at 5v5 are considered HDSA, which is 2nd worst in the league - for reference, league average is about 25%. So that means when the other team does get a shot, it's more likely to be a higher danger shot.

Now, scoring chances and shots are only calculated based on shot attempt location, modified by rushes and rebounds. That's it. It does NOT take into account deflections, screens, time/space for shooter, cross-ice passes, one-timers, etc. We see a lot of this happening, which does not get reflected in the stats.

This maybe gives some context to why a high % of the shots we give up are high danger. And when you watch the games it kind of makes sense. We do a good job of shot suppression, blocking, etc. But the shots and chances that do go through are, to my and many other's eye test, very high danger based on factors that don't get included in the HDSA stat as mentioned above. So we are basically limiting shots, but giving up more HDSA and the ones we do give up are very HDSA that doesn't get captured in the stat.

Another interesting thing to look at is rebound attempts against/60. Now I agree that bob seems to not control rebounds as good as some other elite goalies, but I don't think he's terrible. A lot of us here think our defense is also terrible at clearing rebounds and protecting the front of the net. Panthers give up 4.7 rebound attempts per 60, 3rd worst in the league. So that doesn't help.

Also, look at 5v5 vs. power play. Bob's stats only look bad for 5v5 play. He is actually fine when you look at his stats on the penalty kill. They aren't great on the PK, but they're fine. Sv%, HDSV%, GSAA, they are all about middle of the pack and comparable to guys like Gibson, Price, Vasi. And then when you consider that often times we give up very high danger chances, maybe Bob's numbers on the PK are worse than he actually is.

Bottom line, Bob has been fine. He's not been consistently elite, but he's been way better than his simple stats would imply. He can be better, but he's giving us a chance to win every night. Very rarely is there a goal where I think he should have had it, very rarely does he give up a soft goal. You can argue maybe he can play certain situations better and give up less rebounds, but those are also things he has to work on with the team to adapt to his goaltending style. The key is he doesn't give up deflating goals and sometimes will save the game.

Bob has been fine.

 

[pb1300]

Holy crap is this forum bi-polar. Can we just enjoy the ride? Obviously there are issues that need to be addressed, but we are a win away from being 2nd in the division. Now you know I think that is premature, but we are a good team, a playoff team, and if things work out right, we are going to be a tough out in the playoffs. Things are not all working out right for us at the moment, and look how good we are. This team has much better hockey in themselves, and we have the right coach to get that out of them. In years past, the game yesterday would have started off the same, losing 1-0 early on, and most likely, we would have never recovered. Last night though, we didnt just hit them right back, but we took it to them for a good portion of the game. Can Bob play better, absolutely, and I believe that he will. Can the defense (core/play overall) be better, absolutely, and I believe that Q will correct the issues. And I wouldnt doubt Tallon makes a move to bolster the team sooner or later. This is best time EVER to be a Panthers fan, and I believe its only going to get better from here.

 

[pb1300]

And regarding Hoffman, Im down for Tallon moving him for defensive help. He has taken over the blind-behind-the-back-pass helm from Matheson this season, which has resulted in us losing control in the offensive zone a few times already, especially on the PP. And I think he was a problem for us on the PP early on as well, in a different way. We looked for him way too much, and didnt take advantage of the rest of our talent on the top line. Now, they move the puck around more, and are getting more shots from the rest of the unit, resulting in a better producing PP. Without a doubt, Id take a re-signed Daddy over him.

 

[FrolikFan67]

1 regulation loss in our last 12 games. that's fantastic. they're in a playoff spot this far into the season, which is good for us, and they honestly couldve been higher if they won more of those OT/SO losses.

the first line and fourth lines are fantastic and need no changing. connolly has been a fantastic add, malgin has improved noticeably, boyle is a nice add, vatrano is contributing. hoffman started off strong, kinda been on the down turn lately, but he's bound to step it up again. trocheck is the only question mark honestly, he hasnt shown much between this season and last, and now he's injured again (with....something). i know for his contract he'd be hard to part with, but i do wonder what he could potential return, though his trade value is probably at its lowest right now.

weegar and ekblad have been fine, matheson has been noticeably better and stralman has been solid, pretty much just the 3rd pairing. yandle may not be in the longterm plans but i doubt they move him this season, right now it'd be nice to just get him a nice effective shutdown type to partner up with.

 

[pb1300]

Those warm up jerseys were sick!!!