Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) -- 2018-19 We Are The Champions Edition - Pt. 1

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searle

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Not that I doubt you, but point counter point. Did anyone predict we would be worse with Kevin Shattenkirk? We are collectively damn smart when it comes to hockey and we all applauded the move. It turns out he was best served as injury depth. The D work best in pairs. Breaking one up to make a new one isn't guaranteed.

If we snagged EK, Carlson would get bumped to PK2 and PP2 duty. Suddenly, wouldn't he maybe be a bit overpaid? The grass ain't always greener, not to mention the green money cap room thing. We could go for the full right shot monty if we bring back Green too.

Green Nisky | Karlsson Carlson | Shattenkirk errr Bowey

Very true, I would argue that Karlsson and Shattenkirk are in two different leagues in terms of quality, but the point it keeps coming back to is that there basically isn't enough room for Carlson and Karlsson (lol), and as we just signed the former we can't exactly trade him away to make room for the latter.
 
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Ovechkins Wodka

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Very true, I would argue that Karlsson and Shattenkirk are in two different leagues in terms of quality, but the point it keeps coming back to is that there basically isn't enough room for Carlson and Karlsson (lol), and as we just signed the former we can't exactly trade him away to make room for the latter.
Actually if he's just a rental we can afford him with Orpik off the books
 

kicksavedave

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I honestly don’t think it always works that way. The GM says to coach “I can get this guy, will cost that guy”, and coach says “I’m in”. If it’s a player you don’t know well (meaning, has played for you), you can’t predict what will happen. GMBM didn’t tell Trotz who to play. Neither did George w Oates. Or George w Gallant.

Happens a lot. GM acquires a player, coach doesn’t play them in a manner that works. I dont fault the GM. That’s like saying no GM does a good job unless they win it all.

So we will need to disagree here.

Well I think the GMs that win championships work with their coaches like a hand in a glove, in sync, so that moves where a player doesn't fit what the coaching staff plans to do are kept to a minimum. Other GMs, who are not really championship caliber, make those sort of moves more often. That "it happens a lot" doesn't mean its a Cup winning approach. I feel strongly that this year, bringing in a lesser talent who fits what we really needed, showed us the proper approach.

I also think, maybe more so I hope, that coach/GM conversations about player moves are much more in depth, and take all these fit and usage factors into play, vs just discussion cost on paper. But then, "If I knew the game, I'd be in the game" (LOL) so maybe those conversations are that minimal?
 

Ovechkins Wodka

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What if that's the price to go back to back.

EK on 3rd pair would make us Presidents trophy favorites
 
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artilector

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Jan 11, 2006
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Regarding Karlsson: I think the problem that people have with him is that they downplay his huge offensive contributions because maybe he's slightly below average defensively. If he individually drives a positive goal differential due to his offensive contributions who cares how many goals he gives up from his defensive play? No one cares that Ovechkin or Crosby aren't very strong defensive players because they are excellent at putting pucks in the net. Why should we treat Karlsson differently? *waits for "he's a DEFENSEman" argument*

I agree with this point in general. You can be suspect defensively, but still be a huge net positive if you score lots of goals or tilt the ice.

To me, when I think about defensemen, the points don't really matter, I think they're often not that indicative of the contribution, because the PP points are often more or less replaceable, and the ES points tend to be lots of secondary assists and/or effect of playing with particular forwards. See Shattenkirk -- crappy player regardless of points.

For playoffs, really only one thing interests me in terms of "offense" from the back end -- how much the D-man tilts the ice. How well can they break up opposition passes in the neutral zone, how well they retrieve pucks, how well they skate them out, how good their breakout passes are, how well they seal the offensive zone. Basically, it comes down to possession stats (verified by the eye-test).

Fwiw, Karlsson does seem to be a tremendous possession player.
 

txpd

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Actually if he's just a rental we can afford him with Orpik off the books

Why would you want to? You would put Karlsson on the sparingly used PP2? You would take prime ice time away from a player that just signed an 8 year extension after a Norris level season and then expect him to not be massively pissed off?

The Caps don't need Karlsson. He would be the 3rd RD. Niskanen plays ahead of him in defensive situations.
 

txpd

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What if that's the price to go back to back.

EK on 3rd pair would make us Presidents trophy favorites

one more comment on this. you expect that EK is going to be happy getting 3rd pair minutes and not playing PP1? That is the kind of distraction that could kill any back to back. Remember that this team is supposed be an unusually close team. You throw into that a all star player in a contract year and make him a secondary player. You are asking for trouble.

The Caps don't need a Vezina trophy back up goalie, a Norris trophy 3rd pair d or any other big star players. They would be counter productive
 

searle

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Biggest thing for that for me is that we'd have to pay the same as another team who would be looking to trade and immediately sign for max term.

Not a bidding war I'd like to compete in when we'd probably get one year and everyone else would get 7
 

Ridley Simon

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Well I think the GMs that win championships work with their coaches like a hand in a glove, in sync, so that moves where a player doesn't fit what the coaching staff plans to do are kept to a minimum. Other GMs, who are not really championship caliber, make those sort of moves more often. That "it happens a lot" doesn't mean its a Cup winning approach. I feel strongly that this year, bringing in a lesser talent who fits what we really needed, showed us the proper approach.

I also think, maybe more so I hope, that coach/GM conversations about player moves are much more in depth, and take all these fit and usage factors into play, vs just discussion cost on paper. But then, "If I knew the game, I'd be in the game" (LOL) so maybe those conversations are that minimal?

I honestly don’t know, obv.

My read on GMBM and Trotz were that they weren’t always on the same page. Brian had a vision of what he wanted done, and Barry wasn’t doing it. You read their exit interviews w various publications after both Pens losses, and it seemed Brian wanted things one way, and it didn’t happen. Specifically around speed in transition.

Frankly? I don’t think Brian and Barry saw eye to eye on today’s game, and that Dick protected Barry....and Brian protected Todd. A divide was in place that was ending this season. Then they won it all, so it had to be “revisited” since a new order couldn’t easily be forced.

It came to a head, Barry drew an impossible line in the sand, and he left for *far* greener pastures (meaning colour of money green). Everyone got what they wanted, in the end.

Point being....we had a fractured relationship (yet very professional, IMO) with a coach and GM....very not “hand in a glove”.....but it won anyway.

Fascinating stuff, from where I sit.
 

Silky mitts

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If Bura or Wilson, Orlov, and a 2nd tier prospect like Barber were enough to get Karlsson, and he’d take like 8x9.8M which is less likely still, that would be hard for me to turn down
 

KenAF

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I hope the Caps get Karlsson. Realistically, the Caps don’t get past Toronto (or Tampa Bay if that team gets Karlsson) the next 2 seasons without making a major upgrade.
 

Holtbyisms

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Whats this sudden fear of Toronto? Shouldn't they get past the 1st round first? I know now that the Caps won all bets are off but damn! I think Winnipeg wins before them. :nod:
Toronto isn't much better than they were last season. Their defense is horrendous and their goaltending is suspect at best. John Tavares is not the mega star the Toronto media makes him out to be. He's very talented and a first line player but he's not in the same class as Ovechkin/Crosby/McDavid who can pick a city up and carry them on their back like all of Toronto would have us believe. This stinks just like like Zach Parise being over hyped to oblivion and returning to his hometown team on a mega contract.
 

discobob

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The Caps don't need Karlsson. He would be the 3rd RD. Niskanen plays ahead of him in defensive situations.

While I understand why it doesn't make sense, IF it happened, they're not playing him 3rd line minutes. Whatever line he was on would get the most offensive starts, and he's getting PP time over Carlson (if we base it on skill alone and don't worry about Carlson's feelings)

Again, I get this not making sense, we don't need another RD. It forces the team to under utilize one of Nisky, Carlson, or Karlsson (bad asset / cap management).
 
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