Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) -- 2018-19 Still The Champs Edition - Pt. 9

[Calicaps]

Copley has zero resume to stand on, he has good statistics that largely benefit from him getting to be the back end of a Vezina G who take all of the #1 teams and a defense that won a SC last season.


Djoos played 63 games last season, and 22 in the playoffs. He suffered an injury earlier this year that claims most careers, and he has extensive game tape that demonstrates higher level skill. People are trying to sell the guy down the river when LITERALLY 4 months ago he was sitting in a hospital bed with his leg at risk for amputation.


Copley has never put together remotely the level of tape Djoos has.

I’m not one of those advocating trading Djoos. I agree with you about him, in fact. But you have to bring up Copley even though one has LITERALLY nothing to do with the other.

Your hate for Copley is baseless. Is he a great goalie? No. Is he a perfectly acceptable backup? Yes. Is his contract entirely tradeable? Yes. Does he give the Caps flexibility in the expansion draft? Yes. There’s nothing not to like. He is totally your whipping boy. You should just own it.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

I’m not one of those advocating trading Djoos. I agree with you about him, in fact. But you have to bring up Copley even though one has LITERALLY nothing to do with the other.

Your hate for Copley is baseless. Is he a great goalie? No. Is he a perfectly acceptable backup? Yes. Is his contract entirely tradeable? Yes. Does he give the Caps flexibility in the expansion draft? Yes. There’s nothing not to like. He is totally your whipping boy. You should just own it.

I don't hate Copley, I just am confident both Vanecek and Samsonov are better G's.


If we had plugs in Hershey I'd be okay with him, but we have a 2019 All-Star who has paid his dues ten times over in Vanny and maybe the next franchise G in Sam.


I don't look at Copley as being the issue, I see the issue in us having really good G's that probably should be higher in the depth chart.

 

[Calicaps]

I don't hate Copley, I just am confident both Vanecek and Samsonov are better G's.


If we had plugs in Hershey I'd be okay with him, but we have a 2019 All-Star who has paid his dues ten times over in Vanny and maybe the next franchise G in Sam.


I don't look at Copley as being the issue, I see the issue in us having really good G's that probably should be higher in the depth chart.

Samsonov is surely better on raw talent alone, but he’s got ~10 months of NA hockey experience. No reason to risk his future so he can warm the pine behind 70.

As for Vanacek, maybe the scouts and coaches who watch and work with him every day don’t see NHL talent. Or maybe they have other reasons to keep him in the A, like to help Samsonov’s development. We don’t know, but I’m certain they didn’t forget he was there.

So surely they’re making deliberate decisions. Same goes for signing Milner or whatever his name is... Copley is here because it’s what’s best for the organization now and moving forward in the minds of management. I trust them and their judgement. They’ve earned it.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

Samsonov is surely better on raw talent alone, but he’s got ~10 months of NA hockey experience. No reason to risk his future so he can warm the pine behind 70.

As for Vanacek, maybe the scouts and coaches who watch and work with him every day don’t see NHL talent. Or maybe they have other reasons to keep him in the A, like to help Samsonov’s development. We don’t know, but I’m certain they didn’t forget he was there.

So surely they’re making deliberate decisions. Same goes for signing Milner or whatever his name is... Copley is here because it’s what’s best for the organization now and moving forward in the minds of management. I trust them and their judgement. They’ve earned it.

I get the faith in scouting and such. But let's not act like there's zero cases of amateur fan scouting being correct while the franchise put their eggs in a different basket.


All I'm saying is both Vanny and Sam look like better G's to me in my viewing.

 

[Calicaps]

I get the faith in scouting and such. But let's not act like there's zero cases of amateur fan scouting being correct while the franchise put their eggs in a different basket.


All I'm saying is both Vanny and Sam look like better G's to me in my viewing.

You may be right. That may not be all the variables that need consideration.

 

[Holtbyisms]

I get the faith in scouting and such. But let's not act like there's zero cases of amateur fan scouting being correct while the franchise put their eggs in a different basket.


All I'm saying is both Vanny and Sam look like better G's to me in my viewing.

PC goalie was pretty freaking awesome in the AHL in his own right if you recall anything beyond the Bears abysmal season last year. I think Vitek has about the same amount of potential and Copley has more professional experience(along with being with the team through the entire cup run last playoffs) at this point so it's a no brainier for me. Both look like career backups. Sammy on the other hand looks like a career #1. That's not a knock on PC or Vitek, I like both of them, I'm just being realistic from watching them over the years. I think both have NHL potential but definitely not studs at the next level like Sammy.

 

[Raikkonen]

Djoos is not whipping boy. He's the guy who

1) isn't trusted to play in playoffs
2) blocks several LD prospects with potential to play as Carlson's partner (top-4 LD generally)

If you think about that all of AA/LuJo/Siege/Fehervary stylistically fit with all of Niskanen/Carlson/Jensen. I can imagine a duo out of any of those LD+RD. That's a foundation for some more years into Ovi's twilight.

Caps need slots for those prospects (and all of them need to be PK capable, btw).

So far the weakest link is Djoos who is established defender with warts (physicality). His injury does not change this situation AT ALL.

The worth of Djoos for Caps is lower than his worth for some other potential suitor. Therefore there are plenty of reasons to trade HIM.

What's hard to understand in my stance really?

PS: When he was young there was a hope he will become bulkier in his mid twenties. Didnt happen.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

Djoos is not whipping boy. He's the guy who

1) isn't trusted to play in playoffs
2) blocks several LD prospects with potential to play as Carlson's partner (top-4 LD generally)

If you think about that all of AA/LuJo/Siege/Fehervary stylistically fit with all of Niskanen/Carlson/Jensen. I can imagine a duo out of any of those LD+RD. That's a foundation for some more years into Ovi's twilight.

Caps need slots for those prospects (and all of them need to be PK capable, btw).

So far the weakest link is Djoos who is established defender with warts (physicality). His injury does not change this situation AT ALL.

The worth of Djoos for Caps is lower than his worth for some other potential suitor. Therefore there are plenty of reasons to trade HIM.

What's hard to understand in my stance really?

PS: When he was young there was a hope he will become bulkier in his mid twenties. Didnt happen.

He averaged almost 11 minutes TOI and played 22 games on a Stanley Cup winning team last playoffs, WTF do you mean he's "not trusted"? He was paired with the slowest defenseman on the team and in the regular season last year he was 3rd on the team in CF% . I'm not saying he has to play this season, and that Siegenthaler shouldn't get a look. I'm saying trading him when he's a pending RFA is dumb from a cap stand point and depth stand point. Why would you willingly shed us of an NHL caliber defenseman who likely will be making league minimum? What value do you put at that in terms of draft picks, many of which will never reach the league?

I could go on and on about how in the modern NHL size means less and less, but I'll spare you that rant. To me it's clear that the team recognizes he has chemistry with Orpik and that he has next level decision making. The staff has been very high on him for two seasons, and Reirden seems to see a lot in him. It's super clear that he's taken step backs due to his compartment syndrome, his game always relied upon smart pinch ups at opportune times and his skating ability, both of which you can imagine would be significantly impacted by a traumatic leg injury.




Also he's blocking no one. Of all the guys you've listed we've only ever seen what Siegenthaler looks like at an NHL level and he'll be our 7D next season. For all we know several of those guys are not ready for significant NHL time. The only one likely on the cusp of actually playing decent NHL time next season is Johansen, most of those guys are maybe even 2 years away from the NHL. On top of all the, there's literally no guarantee that they're NHL caliber players either. Fehevary has never even played North American hockey, but you're banking on him bringing more physicality than Djoos?

What you're opining about is called depth, something we've lacked for a long time. We don't have 4 guys who are on the edge of making an NHL roster that are log jammed, we have a guy who just finished his time in the WHL, a guy in the SHL, a guy who is maybe ready to start splitting time between the AHL-NHL, and a guy who is ready to rotate into an NHL roster. That's depth, not an issue.

 

[hb12xchamps]

With the Cap being tight and bearing any other moves I could see them dealing Djoos if his ask comes in a little higher. The amount of LD in the pipeline is insane right now. Siegs/LuJo/AA/Fehervary/Geisser/Bindulis/Nardella etc.

Now if Orpik retires we could see a spot open up for some of these guys to move up. I think there’s a relatively big chance Orpik retires, especially if they make another deep run this year. The amount of wear and tear on his body is probably insane for how long he has played his physical brand of hockey

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Everyone get your candles out for Djoos. /eyeroll

 

[Langway]

The worth of Djoos for Caps is lower than his worth for some other potential suitor. Therefore there are plenty of reasons to trade HIM.

It's hard to say if this is the case or not. It certainly could be among teams that heavily rely upon analytics to make personnel decisions but I'm not sure it would be significantly so.

The clock really begins to tick on him when the alternatives are more than ready and have shown to be superior. Until then he's got a window to prove he's a keeper. I like his instincts but much of his game can be replaced or surpassed with other strengths.

 

[Ridley Simon]

DSP is freed

 

[txpd]

Lets keep something in mind concerning Djoos. This is post surgery, very likely not properly recovered Djoos. Not pre injury, last playoffs Djoos. My read is that the lack of trust in Djoos stems from the team knowing he is limited by the injury. He needs a full off season and training camp.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

With the Cap being tight and bearing any other moves I could see them dealing Djoos if his ask comes in a little higher. The amount of LD in the pipeline is insane right now. Siegs/LuJo/AA/Fehervary/Geisser/Bindulis/Nardella etc.

Now if Orpik retires we could see a spot open up for some of these guys to move up. I think there’s a relatively big chance Orpik retires, especially if they make another deep run this year. The amount of wear and tear on his body is probably insane for how long he has played his physical brand of hockey

He’s an RFA with underwhelming stats and less than two seasons of experience, he has 0 leverage. The Caps would have little to no reason to offer him more than exactly what they want to pay because if it goes to arbitration he’s getting shafted.


The pipe dream of trading him can stop, it makes 0 sense. Only one guy you listed is ready for a full NHL schedule, some are 2-3 seasons away. I mean you guys are singing about depth but look at our current situation, if another d-man got hurt we’re starting to look at some borderline (Lewington, etc.) options.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

Djoos is not whipping boy. He's the guy who

1) isn't trusted to play in playoffs
2) blocks several LD prospects with potential to play as Carlson's partner (top-4 LD generally)

If you think about that all of AA/LuJo/Siege/Fehervary stylistically fit with all of Niskanen/Carlson/Jensen. I can imagine a duo out of any of those LD+RD. That's a foundation for some more years into Ovi's twilight.

Caps need slots for those prospects (and all of them need to be PK capable, btw).

So far the weakest link is Djoos who is established defender with warts (physicality). His injury does not change this situation AT ALL.

The worth of Djoos for Caps is lower than his worth for some other potential suitor. Therefore there are plenty of reasons to trade HIM.

What's hard to understand in my stance really?

PS: When he was young there was a hope he will become bulkier in his mid twenties. Didnt happen.

Deserves a love rating for post. Exactly how I feel and I didn't harp on the kid. He's got a ring now he can play in Sweden or somewhere else now. I'm grateful for his contribution in the past, however I moved on from him as a NHL player. All of us give our young players a time frame and I had hoped he would bulk up also. He does have skill, but not the brawn for the NHL.

 

[Hivemind]

I still believe trading Djoos would be a mistake.

I'm generally of the philosophy you don't "clear space" for prospects. Sometimes you're forced to run with your prospects because of salary cap considerations, but when you ship out players for that you're typically looking to move a costlier player. Djoos isn't costly. Prospects should have to earn their spots. Djoos supplanted multiple guys ahead of him on the roster for his spot (Jokkipakka, Ness, and Bowey in the pre-season/early season, Chorney in the regular season, Jerabek in the post-season) last year. The same approach should be taken with their glut of LD in the system currently (and boy it would be nice to have Priskie as a RD prospect to help balance things out).

Djoos was excellent in last year's playoffs. Not so much so far in this year's, but he's also playing his off-side against an aggressive and quick forechecking team. That's when being on your natural side of the ice really matters, when you need to make quick reads, quick passes, and receive passes on your forehand. His gaffe turnover that led to a Carolina goal was a direct result of him having to read a play and catch a pass on the wrong side of his body. Sure, Djoos has been a more capable off-side defender than any of the other LD over the course of the past two seasons, but he can play a quicker and more fluid game on his natural side.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

I still believe trading Djoos would be a mistake.

I'm generally of the philosophy you don't "clear space" for prospects. Sometimes you're forced to run with your prospects because of salary cap considerations, but when you ship out players for that you're typically looking to move a costlier player. Djoos isn't costly. Prospects should have to earn their spots. Djoos supplanted multiple guys ahead of him on the roster for his spot (Jokkipakka, Ness, and Bowey in the pre-season/early season, Chorney in the regular season, Jerabek in the post-season) last year. The same approach should be taken with their glut of LD in the system currently (and boy it would be nice to have Priskie as a RD prospect to help balance things out).

Djoos was excellent in last year's playoffs. Not so much so far in this year's, but he's also playing his off-side against an aggressive and quick forechecking team. That's when being on your natural side of the ice really matters, when you need to make quick reads, quick passes, and receive passes on your forehand. His gaffe turnover that led to a Carolina goal was a direct result of him having to read a play and catch a pass on the wrong side of his body. Sure, Djoos has been a more capable off-side defender than any of the other LD over the course of the past two seasons, but he can play a quicker and more fluid game on his natural side.

Thus why it is hard, however he looked totally scared the other night. His eyes told the story to me. It was like throwing one of us out there on the ice for an NHL game. Yes, on Priskie. Nothing like seeing prospects leave for nothing.

 

[peterthegreat12]

For all of the Caps vaunted defensive depth, they sure struggle finding another option on D that doesn’t struggle.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

For all of the Caps vaunted defensive depth, they sure struggle finding another option on D that doesn’t struggle.

We don't have Makar type fill this late. I guess we would if Priskie had signed.

 

[Sam Spade]

We don't have Makar type fill this late. I guess we would if Priskie had signed.

Makar - 4th overall selection

Priske - 177th overall selection

I'm sure Priske would have the exact same impact.

 

[hb12xchamps]

He’s an RFA with underwhelming stats and less than two seasons of experience, he has 0 leverage. The Caps would have little to no reason to offer him more than exactly what they want to pay because if it goes to arbitration he’s getting shafted.

The pipe dream of trading him can stop, it makes 0 sense. Only one guy you listed is ready for a full NHL schedule, some are 2-3 seasons away. I mean you guys are singing about depth but look at our current situation, if another d-man got hurt we’re starting to look at some borderline (Lewington, etc.) options.

Where in that post did I advocate for trading him? I simply said I could see a scenario where the Caps entertain the idea.

If anything, the fact that he was replaced by Siegs already isn’t going in his favor. He hasn’t been great since coming back from injury. And your point about none of the guys in the system being able to play a full NHL schedule is laughable considering Djoos has yet to play a full NHL schedule. Is Djoos ahead of those guys on the depth chart? Yes definitely but do you really think they keep Djoos over anyone else on our D core currently if AA or LuJo or Fehervary have a beast TC next year? There’s way to much that can go on between now and next year to say that trading Djoos makes 0 sense and I love Djoos but he’s definitely replaceable.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

Where in that post did I advocate for trading him? I simply said I could see a scenario where the Caps entertain the idea.

If anything, the fact that he was replaced by Siegs already isn’t going in his favor. He hasn’t been great since coming back from injury. And your point about none of the guys in the system being able to play a full NHL schedule is laughable considering Djoos has yet to play a full NHL schedule. Is Djoos ahead of those guys on the depth chart? Yes definitely but do you really think they keep Djoos over anyone else on our D core currently if AA or LuJo or Fehervary have a beast TC next year? There’s way to much that can go on between now and next year to say that trading Djoos makes 0 sense and I love Djoos but he’s definitely replaceable.

Siegs or Djoos was likely always going to be competing for 6D/7D if Orpik resigns, so I would say everything has progressed as expected. Djoos had an injury that ends careers, that he is even playing hockey right now is impressive. The staff clearly sees a lot of potential in him. His name is on the Stanley Cup and we’ve got posters insinuating that he’s not NHL or AHL level.

LuJo is playing bottom pairing minutes in Hershey right now, why anyone thinks he’ll get solid NHL playing time from the go next year is beyond me. AA just had a season ending knee injury and hasn’t played a game outside of the WHL. Feverary maybe has the best chance of the three in TC, but he’s also never played substantial North American hockey.


What people conflate is depth for logjam. LuJo, AA, etc. are all years off from making major contributions. We’re at a point where we have only 7 capable d-men and people are acting like we’re shelving blue chip prospects that are wasting time in Hershey. We’re talking about brokering the future over a bunch of guys who aren’t even playing significant AHL time yet...

 

[hb12xchamps]

Siegs or Djoos was likely always going to be competing for 6D/7D if Orpik resigns, so I would say everything has progressed as expected. Djoos had an injury that ends careers, that he is even playing hockey right now is impressive. The staff clearly sees a lot of potential in him. His name is on the Stanley Cup and we’ve got posters insinuating that he’s not NHL or AHL level.

LuJo is playing bottom pairing minutes in Hershey right now, why anyone thinks he’ll get solid NHL playing time from the go next year is beyond me. AA just had a season ending knee injury and hasn’t played a game outside of the WHL. Feverary maybe has the best chance of the three in TC, but he’s also never played substantial North American hockey.


What people conflate is depth for logjam. LuJo, AA, etc. are all years off from making major contributions. We’re at a point where we have only 7 capable d-men and people are acting like we’re shelving blue chip prospects that are wasting time in Hershey. We’re talking about brokering the future over a bunch of guys who aren’t even playing significant AHL time yet...

Trust me I love Djoos I’ve supported him and I’ve stated that many times. He deserves to be in the NHL unless his injury indeed was career altering. My stance is that Djoos could be moved if the organization likes what they see from the young guns. Key word there being could.

And by the way, LuJo is not playing bottom pairing minutes. The second and third pairing get equal playing time and the Ness/Lewington pairing was the top pairing until Ness went down. Guess who took the top pairing spot with Lewington?

 

[IafrateOvie34]

Makar - 4th overall selection

Priske - 177th overall selection

I'm sure Priske would have the exact same impact.

I was just pointing out immediate impacts. I think Makar is obviously the better player and going to be for a long time.

 

[peterthegreat12]

A morbid thought, but should the Caps lose this round, where would they draft?