Series Discussion: Capitals vs Islanders

Who Will Win?


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Calicaps

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View attachment 362314

There is also talk about the goatees, a team "chat" or other mysterious bonding coming from Ovechkin and others. Kuzy also shaved his head bald. So there's some kind of player-led thing going on.

(clip from WaPo article)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/08/18/washington-capitals-new-york-islanders-game-4/
So is this akin to the players-only meeting that salvaged Trotz's tenure in fall 2017? Or do we interpret this as turning their back on TR? (Not being snarky, seriously wondering what you and others think.)
 

francaisvolantsparis

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Really wish they had gotten CMM involved. Bottom six is skill-less.
Skill is not the problem. 2020 Vrana, 2020 Kovalchuk, 2020 Panik, 2020 Boyd, 2020 Sprong all have more skill than 2020 McMichael today. Any one of them will score 300 points per season in OHL. He is not ready yet.
 
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Ridley Simon

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That last game changed when Cizikas put his stick into the back of old man Ovy’s knee.....

and he awoke The Russian Bear. Who went and grounded Casey into the ice. Ovy was mad.

that was it. Team was far better than NYI the rest of the way.

see if it carries any further
 
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Calicaps

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Honestly, I rewatched Tuesday's game and they really started to turn the tide at about the 11-minute mark of the first. It wasn't fully realized until Kuzy scored, but shortly after the Isles second goal, they began to get extended O-zone time and Varly was tested with several quality shots.
 
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g00n

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So is this akin to the players-only meeting that salvaged Trotz's tenure in fall 2017? Or do we interpret this as turning their back on TR? (Not being snarky, seriously wondering what you and others think.)

Maybe. I don't think comments like Kuzy's indicate a player who has been following fancy stats on his own and suddenly abandoned them. It seems like some outside influence was getting in their heads about Corsi and he/they stopped worrying about that.

It could be they're playing TR's system now instead of worrying about the stats.
It could be the stats were part of the coaching and they stopped listening.
It could be something else like at personal trainer/agent or a reporter providing context.
It could only be recent.

Hard to say but whatever it is they need to keep it up.
 
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tenken00

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Maybe. I don't think comments like Kuzy's indicate a player who has been following fancy stats on his own and suddenly abandoned them. It seems like some outside influence was getting in their heads about Corsi and he/they stopped worrying about that.

It could be they're playing TR's system now instead of worrying about the stats.
It could be the stats were part of the coaching and they stopped listening.
It could be something else like at personal trainer/agent or a reporter providing context.
It could only be recent.

Hard to say but whatever it is they need to keep it up.

It could be possible that after last year's disaster against the Canes, and the whole (true) narrative that we were getting out-Corsi'd left and right by them, that the coaching staff implemented over the course of this year a shoot from anywhere all the time philosophy. Or tried to. I know in years past, we tried to go for the perfect shot - often times going for it too much (the guys would even admit to this in interviews), but it was our identity.

Maybe the team as a whole, when their backs were literally against the wall, just simplified things back to the old style, their comfortable winning style.

I don't know. During the regular season, it was hard to tell what their identity even was. Just know it was "different". Sometimes it looked like a bizarre hodgepodge of things that all together looked like a hot mess. So I don't know what their game plan was. But we're not a Corsi-type team. Never have been.
 
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txpd

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Honestly, I rewatched Tuesday's game and they really started to turn the tide at about the 11-minute mark of the first. It wasn't fully realized until Kuzy scored, but shortly after the Isles second goal, they began to get extended O-zone time and Varly was tested with several quality shots.

Right after the time out. If they keep playing like that, and they can, hold on to your butts
 
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g00n

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It could be possible that after last year's disaster against the Canes, and the whole (true) narrative that we were getting out-Corsi'd left and right by them, that the coaching staff implemented over the course of this year a shoot from anywhere all the time philosophy. Or tried to. I know in years past, we tried to go for the perfect shot - often times going for it too much (the guys would even admit to this in interviews), but it was our identity.

Maybe the team as a whole, when their backs were literally against the wall, just simplified things back to the old style, their comfortable winning style.

I don't know. During the regular season, it was hard to tell what their identity even was. Just know it was "different". Sometimes it looked like a bizarre hodgepodge of things that all together looked like a hot mess. So I don't know what their game plan was. But we're not a Corsi-type team. Never have been.

Well my gut tells me they probably spent a bit more time going into fancy stats that were largely a side note under Trotz. They spent 4 years working the way Trotz wanted them to and that gets burned into your brain. Then they interrupt their patterns of reaction with little "is this the right move to contribute to a shot" microthoughts, and things get herky-jerky rather than smooth.

So I've been leaning toward "they're blowing off the coaching" a bit, though the coaches may not realize it. TR talked a lot in the post-game presser about the team finally giving the right amount of effort. Is that what really happened? Or were their minds just less cluttered? Because I saw guys skating hard and hitting before but nothing was being strung together with any real results.
 
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tenken00

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Well my gut tells me they probably spent a bit more time going into fancy stats that were largely a side note under Trotz. They spent 4 years working the way Trotz wanted them to and that gets burned into your brain. Then they interrupt their patterns of reaction with little "is this the right move to contribute to a shot" microthoughts, and things get herky-jerky rather than smooth.

So I've been leaning toward "they're blowing off the coaching" a bit, though the coaches may not realize it. TR talked a lot in the post-game presser about the team finally giving the right amount of effort. Is that what really happened? Or were their minds just less cluttered? Because I saw guys skating hard and hitting before but nothing was being strung together with any real results.

Well it fits Reirden's pattern of not taking any responsibility for himself. It's only on the players.

And I don't think our current roster makeup is even the right match for a Carolina-type Corsi-darling style of play. Our Cup year, Corsi hated us with a passion. Something like at or near the bottom of all playoff teams? We're just not wired that way. When Corsi actually liked us in a particular game, that meant that we were really feeling it that night. But it was never an intentional thought.

I'm actually surprised by this, and would never have guessed that this was something that they were intentionally aiming for. Only found out when I read your post just this morning (was pretty sick last few days). This feels like one of those things where a coach tries to fit the players into the philosophy instead of fitting the philosophy around the players.
 
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g00n

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Well it fits Reirden's pattern of not taking any responsibility for himself. It's only on the players.

And I don't think our current roster makeup is even the right match for a Carolina-type Corsi-darling style of play. Our Cup year, Corsi hated us with a passion. Something like at or near the bottom of all playoff teams? We're just not wired that way. When Corsi actually liked us in a particular game, that meant that we were really feeling it that night. But it was never an intentional thought.

I'm actually surprised by this, and would never have guessed that this was something that they were intentionally aiming for. Only found out when I read your post just this morning (was pretty sick last few days). This feels like one of those things where a coach tries to fit the players into the philosophy instead of fitting the philosophy around the players.

Haven't read a single TR comment until this week so taking your word about the responsibility thing. That tracks with my previous feelings that this is Oates 2.0, where theories in a bubble are thrown at the wall and if they don't work then it's on the players.

I'm virtually certain the players would be well aware of the Corsi gap during the Cup run and that may have been nagging them all along.

I'm also pretty sure they'd realize their own shooting percentages for the regular season were damn good among the team's top scorers, which suggests quality of shot is more their thing than quantity.
 

Devil Dancer

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Tired of the Holtby disrespect guys. Go back and watch the 2018 SC run -- it was ALL Hotlby.

Yes, he has been shaky this series, but please be a little more respectful with your criticisms. The guy is a Caps legend.
No it wasn't, they scored 3.5 goals a game.

Holtby was very good, but don't revise history. They won that Cup by scoring a ton of goals.
 

tenken00

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Haven't read a single TR comment until this week so taking your word about the responsibility thing. That tracks with my previous feelings that this is Oates 2.0, where theories in a bubble are thrown at the wall and if they don't work then it's on the players.

I'm virtually certain the players would be well aware of the Corsi gap during the Cup run and that may have been nagging them all along.

I'm also pretty sure they'd realize their own shooting percentages for the regular season were damn good among the team's top scorers, which suggests quality of shot is more their thing than quantity.

Well, you can probably easily imagine that TR's post game every time during the losses in this series were always "the players need to put in more effort" and never "I need to take a look at myself or the system" or "its my responsibility to have the guys ready to play with effort." And it's been taken note of by every Caps based outlet.

Even if what he says is true, the guy at the top needs to at least bite the bullet and take some of the blame. Attitude does reflect leadership. Guys might play harder for a guy who does that.
 
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