Post-Game Talk: Capitals vs Avalanche 9pm

[MrGone]

Could have done things differently I agree..disaster? Can u elaborate?

Its not that hard. I have been saying for a few season the window is more less closed. We had salary s going up and skill level of them players going down or staying flat. So the supporting players level are going down. And then way to many FA in one season.

"Could have done things differently" I think any one could have if they had the balls to make decision that may piss some people off. Or an owner that really wanted a cup and not worried about just making money.

 

[twabby]

It's almost impressive how unwilling/unable the Capitals are at getting quality chances. Here are the past three Cup winners Shots For charts:

 

[Gopack76]

Leonsis needs to be willing to touch the third rail of this organization and move some of the more recognized players. A coaching change will not be enough, a cultural change is what is needed. Caps need to do another Ryan Walters/Rick Green transaction and Montreal would seem to be a possible partner especially after losing at home to the Yotes last night.

Leonsis is not a good owner at all. A lot of the problems now go back to him claiming he wanted fresh eyes on the team then promoting from within.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

We're currently in the last wildcard spot. A bunch of teams have games in hand over us, and 5 different teams can catch up to us. The Rangers, the Flyers and the Hurricanes from our division, the Red Wings and the Bruins from the Atlantic. It's simple, if by new year we are outside of the playoffs, Trotz should be fired. His contract expires at the end of the year anyway, maybe a coaching change could give us a quick boost like it does for so many other teams.

 

[Gopack76]

Leonsis makes a good point. The problem is that it's not a reactionary thing with Trotz, it's a recognition that his style, his points of emphasis are sorely lacking in today's NHL. OK, tell Trotz to increase his emphasis on puck possession, quicker puck movement, etc. Similar to what McPhee did with Boudreau with regard to changing styles.

My fear is that we may never know what we have with our young players as long as Barry is coach. I mean, we traded away a first rounder for an unnecessary rental when we really had what we needed right in front of us (Schmidt). There's no doubt the coach influences roster moves, and we've made some poor ones of late.

I don't think Trotz has a ton of say about roster moves. I think the GM wanted to keep the defensemen he signed over other players as an example.

 

[Gopack76]

I think @maacoshark bashes Niskanen more than I ever bashed Orpik though I'd appreciate an unbiased opinion on the matter. Either way, it's an impressive effort.

Niskanen is a much better player at this point than Orpik....which might not be saying all that much.

 

[AtNightWeFly]

We're currently in the last wildcard spot. A bunch of teams have games in hand over us, and 5 different teams can catch up to us. The Rangers, the Flyers and the Hurricanes from our division, the Red Wings and the Bruins from the Atlantic. It's simple, if by new year we are outside of the playoffs, Trotz should be fired. His contract expires at the end of the year anyway, maybe a coaching change could give us a quick boost like it does for so many other teams.

Waiting for new year is too late IMO. It needs to happen in the next 2 weeks.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Waiting for new year is too late IMO. It needs to happen in the next 2 weeks.

A month is a reasonable timeframe for a coach to turn the season around and make changes to the system.

 

[AtNightWeFly]

A month is a reasonable timeframe for a coach to turn the season around and make changes to the system.

Now that I can agree with! But it will have to be a new coach.

 

[maacoshark]

Niskanen is a much better player at this point than Orpik....which might not be saying all that much.

Orpik is a physical stay at home dman. Niskanen is supposed to be our number 1 yet Orpik is probably playing better than Niskanen.

 

[maacoshark]

Come on. Carlson signed long time ago at different circumstances (namely - being younger and less established guy). Niskanen signed for market value. Nothing wrong here.

He signed for market value of an elite defence man which he isn't and never will be. Even in today's market he isn't worth 5.75 a season.

 

[twabby]

@maacoshark : where do you think Niskanen slots in ideally? #2D, #4D, riding the bench? What do you think he should be paid? $1M, $2M?

I'm trying to understand your point of view, I really am. But it really just seems like you have a personal grudge against the dude.

 

[maacoshark]

We're currently in the last wildcard spot. A bunch of teams have games in hand over us, and 5 different teams can catch up to us. The Rangers, the Flyers and the Hurricanes from our division, the Red Wings and the Bruins from the Atlantic. It's simple, if by new year we are outside of the playoffs, Trotz should be fired. His contract expires at the end of the year anyway, maybe a coaching change could give us a quick boost like it does for so many other teams.

We aren't done yet but we have to turn this mess around very soon. We are lucky we have as many wins as we do. Holtby stole a couple games for us.

 

[Dr John Carlson]

He signed for market value of an elite defence man which he isn't and never will be. Even in today's market he isn't worth 5.75 a season.

5.75 is not the market value for an "elite" defenseman. If we're talking truly elite defenseman, 8-8.5+ is probably more in the wheelhouse. 5.75 isn't as much as it used to be.

 

[hb12xchamps]

I didn't get to watch the game but I can't see why someone would criticize Niskanen. Do you really expect someone coming back from a long layoff to jump right in and be as great as he was before? It doesn't matter what sport you play, that's just not feasible from a fitness and mental aspect.

I've had my share of injuries of the course of my soccer playing career at the HS and college level and you really have to take a a few days or weeks to get back into that groove of playing at peak performance.

 

[maacoshark]

@maacoshark : where do you think Niskanen slots in ideally? #2D, #4D, riding the bench? What do you think he should be paid? $1M, $2M?

I'm trying to understand your point of view, I really am. But it really just seems like you have a personal grudge against the dude.

Well to be honest I don't like him never did. Hated him in Pittsburgh and hated that we signed him for that much money. His salary is top 20 amongst NHL defence men which means he should be a number one defenseman. Right now I think he is our 3rd best all round defence man on a team that is struggling defensively. Behind Carlson and Orlov. People say he is a shut down dman but I just haven't seen that. I'll be honest I am harder on him than our other dmen because he is a veteran, he is our highest paid dman. He is supposed to be our top guy but he hasnt done it. I find it odd that Caps fans will jump allover Carlson,Orpik or Orlovor even the rookies if they make a mistake but when Niskanen makes a bad mistake nothing said. Is Niskanen loved that much.

 

[Gopack76]

Orpik is a physical stay at home dman. Niskanen is supposed to be our number 1 yet Orpik is probably playing better than Niskanen.

Have you been watching games? Yesterday Orpik can't control a puck at center ice, turns into an early goal. In the last few games Orpik has been burnt off of face-offs that lead to oddman breaks. One that resulted in him taking a penalty and another that resulted in a goal. To say nothing of Orpik being picked clean yesterday and a couple games ago below the Caps goal that led directly to goals. He just isn't that good any more and if anything should be on the bottom pair since they won't buy him out.
Niskanen, while not great after the injury, deserves a few games to get in gear.

 

[twabby]

I don't think Niskanen is unfairly beloved by the fanbase or people here (how many Niskanen jerseys do you see in the stands?)

He doesn't have the high-end offensive potential of Carlson but he's certainly their most stout defensive player when you take a look at it statistically. He's always been a positive relative possession player from his time in Dallas to now and his penalty killing is usually good, on top of limiting quality chances against.

The one aspect about Niskanen that I will say disappoints me is that he's never really elevated his play in the playoffs. Not that he's been terrible either, but I'm not sure he has another gear. Still, for $5.75M he's been mostly worth it.

 

[BiPolar Caps]

A month is a reasonable timeframe for a coach to turn the season around and make changes to the system.

This team is like an aircraft carrier at sea, it's going to take sometime to turn it around and it's not going to happen all at once with a coaching change or during this season. It's going to require some time, several seasons with an infusion of youth and energy via the draft and the casting off of some who provided us with hope over the past 7 or 8 years but who were never capable of taking the team to the SC.

 

[maacoshark]

5.75 is not the market value for an "elite" defenseman. If we're talking truly elite defenseman, 8-8.5+ is probably more in the wheelhouse. 5.75 isn't as much as it used to be.

At the time he signed he was just outside the top 10 highest paid dmen. Now he is just in the top 20. But there is No way Niskanen is a top 20 dman in this league. At the time he signed that contract do you think he was a top 10 defence man. I don't think so. Not even close.

 

[maacoshark]

I don't think Niskanen is unfairly beloved by the fanbase or people here (how many Niskanen jerseys do you see in the stands?)

He doesn't have the high-end offensive potential of Carlson but he's certainly their most stout defensive player when you take a look at it statistically. He's always been a positive relative possession player from his time in Dallas to now and his penalty killing is usually good, on top of limiting quality chances against.

The one aspect about Niskanen that I will say disappoints me is that he's never really elevated his play in the playoffs. Not that he's been terrible either, but I'm not sure he has another gear. Still, for $5.75M he's been mostly worth it.

What has Niskanen ever done in playoffs or regular season that warrants his salary. He isn't a shut down guy like you think he is. He is average or slightly above average defensively. He is also average offensively. He gets caught on a couple bad pinches every game it seems.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

This team is like an aircraft carrier at sea, it's going to take sometime to turn it around and it's not going to happen all at once with a coaching change or during this season. It's going to require some time, several seasons with an infusion of youth and energy via the draft and the casting off of some who provided us with hope over the past 7 or 8 years but who were never capable of taking the team to the SC.

I'm not talking about turning the entire franchise around, I'm talking about turning the season around so that we make the playoffs. We'll have plenty of time to turn the franchise around next summer.

 

[Calicaps]

I'm not talking about turning the entire franchise around, I'm talking about turning the season around so that we make the playoffs. We'll have plenty of time to turn the franchise around next summer.

If they make the playoffs, they won't do shit next summer. Only missing the playoffs and losing that revenue will motivate management to action. And even then, no matter what they say, the thing they are "fixing" for is making the playoffs, not winning a Cup. That is why we lose.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

If they make the playoffs, they won't do **** next summer. Only missing the playoffs and losing that revenue will motivate management to action. And even then, no matter what they say, the thing they are "fixing" for is making the playoffs, not winning a Cup. That is why we lose.

I'm not sure of what I want for the Caps at this point. I want a real change of mentality, a real change in management, coaching and players. But at the same time, I can't suffer the embarrassment of missing the playoffs this year with all the top end talent we have. We locked up Oshie and Kuznetsov to long contracts last summer. The management wants to continue to be a playoff team and perhaps regain the contender status within that timeframe. I want to make the playoffs again this year, because missing the playoffs will kill what's left of our fanbase.

It's very conflicting.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Well to be honest I don't like him never did. Hated him in Pittsburgh and hated that we signed him for that much money. His salary is top 20 amongst NHL defence men which means he should be a number one defenseman. Right now I think he is our 3rd best all round defence man on a team that is struggling defensively. Behind Carlson and Orlov. People say he is a shut down dman but I just haven't seen that. I'll be honest I am harder on him than our other dmen because he is a veteran, he is our highest paid dman. He is supposed to be our top guy but he hasnt done it. I find it odd that Caps fans will jump allover Carlson,Orpik or Orlovor even the rookies if they make a mistake but when Niskanen makes a bad mistake nothing said. Is Niskanen loved that much.

Say no more....your position is clear.