GDT: Capitals @ Maple Leafs | 1/29/23 | 5:00p ET

[Corby78]

It's a thing. Several posters have it in their heads that the team is "old and slow" and they have a few whipping boys they blame every loss for.

Imagine blaming Backstrom for last night given how well he's been playing, the fact that he won the SO vs PIT, and had the only goal vs TOR, because "old and slow veterans" is what's REALLY behind it all.

Your right that the “everyone needs to be under 30” argument doesn’t hold water. But it can’t be argued that this team as constructed/coaches doesn’t work. Now part of that has been injuries that has taken a toll. But there does seem to be a lack of drive right now, as well as a swell of mistakes.

The season isn’t over but looking at the trend of decline in play over the last four years I think we need to be honest that “reset” of the roster probably needs to take place. Coaches too

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Your right that the “everyone needs to be under 30” argument doesn’t hold water. But it can’t be argued that this team as constructed/coaches doesn’t work. Now part of that has been injuries that has taken a toll. But there does seem to be a lack of drive right now, as well as a swell of mistakes.

The season isn’t over but looking at the trend of decline in play over the last four years I think we need to be honest that “reset” of the roster probably needs to take place. Coaches too

Haven’t we all been kinda expecting a major shakeup this summer?

 

[Corby78]

Haven’t we all been kinda expecting a major shakeup this summer?

Well many are from looking at contracts and reading the tea leaves. But I don’t remember anyone in the front office dropping those hints. But it’s another reason I wouldn’t be a buyer at the TDL unless they all of a sudden turn it on. I want to have more flexibility for a restructure this off-season. And I purposely didn’t say rebuild so I wouldnt anger anyone.

 

[g00n]

View attachment 643865

What's your diagnosis, Dr Hockey? "old and slow"?

Well many are from looking at contracts and reading the tea leaves. But I don’t remember anyone in the front office dropping those hints. But it’s another reason I wouldn’t be a buyer at the TDL unless they all of a sudden turn it on. I want to have more flexibility for a restructure this off-season. And I purposely didn’t say rebuild so I wouldnt anger anyone.

Right before they got hot in Dec

'We dug ourselves a hole': Caps GM Brian MacLellan on team's state

Takeaways from a media availability with the Capitals general manager, his first since the preseason.

theathletic.com

This was the same interview where he called out Mantha and Kuzy by name and said the team had dug a hole they needed to climb out of.

They climbed out of it. Now they feel safe.

GMBM needs to remind them they're not.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

Haven’t we all been kinda expecting a major shakeup this summer?

They certainly will have the flexibility.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Well many are from looking at contracts and reading the tea leaves. But I don’t remember anyone in the front office dropping those hints. But it’s another reason I wouldn’t be a buyer at the TDL unless they all of a sudden turn it on. I want to have more flexibility for a restructure this off-season. And I purposely didn’t say rebuild so I wouldnt anger anyone.

GMBM did. It’s easy to see a significant shift is looming on the horizon….but the front office would never come flat out and say that 1/3 of this roster might get tossed, and do it in-season to torpedo player confidence.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Backstrom scoring was fun to see. That’s about all I got from yesterday.

 

[Langway]

GMBM did. It’s easy to see a significant shift is looming on the horizon….but the front office would never come flat out and say that 1/3 of this roster might get tossed, and do it in-season to torpedo player confidence.

Problem is, though, you can toss the expirings and still be left with a large chunk of overpaid, declining vets whose market may be limited. How far do we expect $24M to go? Not nearly far enough I don't think. Unless the cap goes up significantly more I don't doubt this current very mid team ends up being better on paper than what they put out there next season (and not by design). It's going to take a lot more than shuffling UFAs to fix what ails them and certainly the potential is there for vast short-term regression defensively minus Orlov & Jensen potentially. (To say nothing of what they've gotten out of TVR & Gustafsson.) The only expiring contract that could prove addition by subtraction is Eller and even that dismisses his PK value. By and large the expiring UFAs aren't the issue.

They should at least explore the possibility of getting an early start on restructuring at the deadline. That doesn't mean selling but they should be open to shake up trades. It won't be easy to execute but increasingly it seems like Kuz & Mantha have to go. Even then 19/77 remain obstacles re: pace improvement should they manage to move off of those other two hefty contracts. Barring a stunning sell off of Orlov & Jensen and an admission that they're not all that close it's hard to see how they manage to acquire the assets needed to restructure in a way that could promise to put them back into Cup contention. (And even selling off holds no certain promises.) They're at the stage where there aren't easy answers. Few teams are likely to act fast to take their anchors off their hands. Even if they do there's the separate issue of talent acquisition. The UFA market isn't an ideal source. Time is only going to make their issues more diffuse. Without more foresight it's only likely to get worse. A lot of what they're about is just holding on and that's an inherently regressive dynamic. Hard to expect much when that concern more or less dominates with little (if anything) seriously developing and stabilizing internally offering glimmers of hope.

Maybe they grab the wheel, qualify for the playoffs and put up their token decent effort against BOS/CAR. I don't know where they'd go from there. Barring a stunning first round upset it's hard to see how the general status quo, plug-and-play sort of off-season should remain tenable.

 

[YippieKaey]

Some key players aren't pulling their weight, they missed Carlson on the PP, the goaltending hasn't been as good as it could be, they've had to shuffle lines a lot for various reasons including injuries, they pulled into a playoff spot which removed some of the pressure they felt in December after GMBM called them out publicly, and maybe most importantly Ovie is no longer close to a record (passing Howe at the end of Dec) so they don't have that extra bit of motivation.

"A couple of old and slow guys coming back" is just an extension of confirmation bias.

I agree with many of your points. But do you really not think that the bolded has something to do with the age if those key players?

 

[RedRocking]

I agree with many of your points. But do you really not think that the bolded has something to do with the age if those key players?

I wasn’t aware that Kuzy (age 30), and Mantha (28) were considered too old for modern hockey.

 

[YippieKaey]

I wasn’t aware that Kuzy (age 30), and Mantha (28) were considered too old for modern hockey.

You know who im talking about.

 

[g00n]

You know who im talking about.

Backstrom has been good and Oshie's a playoffs guy. Mojo has been good and was excellent in the playoffs last year.

Who else are you talking about?

 

[YippieKaey]

Backstrom has been good and Oshie's a playoffs guy. Mojo has been good and was excellent in the playoffs last year.

Who else are you talking about?

Ovi is still scoring goals, but does not drive play. He needs quick and tenacious legs around him.

Oshie has heart, but plays few games and still has a sizeable cap hit. Also slow, needs quick and tenacious legs around him. And being a playoffs guy is not enough. Especially if you don't even make the playoffs.

Bäckström has looked alright, but also needs people to skate for him.

Carlson has been a good offensive player, but not good on defence. Might not be age related but all players except Lidström start to decline around 30+. Especially in terms of speed and quick twitch stuff. Not a hard concept to grasp.

We're also going to see Orlov and Wilson decline rapidly for the next few years. If that hasn't already started given the injury situation.

We've seen it two years in a row now. Old guard out injured= Caps play great. Old guard returns= We are barely .500. That is called a trend.

I dont know why this is such a controversial opinion to you. Age increase after 30= lowered production from elite athletes.

The correlation is well known and if i had the energy i'd actually give you a proper statistical representation here but it's fine to disagree.

 

[g00n]

Ovi is still scoring goals, but does not drive play. He needs quick and tenacious legs around him.

Oshie has heart, but plays few games and still has a sizeable cap hit. Also slow, needs quick and tenacious legs around him. And being a playoffs guy is not enough. Especially if you don't even make the playoffs.

Bäckström has looked alright, but also needs people to skate for him.

Carlson has been a good offensive player, but not good on defence. Might not be age related but all players except Lidström start to decline around 30+. Especially in terms of speed and quick twitch stuff. Not a hard concept to grasp.

We're also going to see Orlov and Wilson decline rapidly for the next few years. If that hasn't already started given the injury situation.

We've seen it two years in a row now. Old guard out injured= Caps play great. Old guard returns= We are barely .500. That is called a trend.

I dont know why this is such a controversial opinion to you. Age increase after 30= lowered production from elite athletes.

The correlation is well known and if i had the energy i'd actually give you a proper statistical representation here but it's fine to disagree.

Your take on Oshie is 180* from reality. The Caps have been making the playoffs. Their issue has been guys disappearing when it matters.

Carlson is not playing so you can't cite him for a reason the team is slumping, other than maybe his ABSENCE. I wanted to trade him for his bad playofff record the last several years but he's not to at fault for January's record. So not sure why you've bringing him up to justify your complaint about key players not pulling their weight right now.

Then you launch into some defense of your theory that has exactly f*** all to do with the last month.

There was also no "trend" last year, the team got covid and got cold. They came off their hot level of play before "old guard" players came back. That's called weak correlation and confirmation bias, not a trend. They were also hot early last season because Kuzy didn't suck at the time.

And this year when the injured players returned the team didn't suffer because of them, unless you think it was all Wilson, who is not old and slow and was playing well after a few games. He had zero to do with the loss to TML. And Nicky has been very good. I gave several reasons for their run of play and none of them need the "old and slow" excuse.

So thanks for proving my point about there being a narrative or agenda that's based on age bias and nothing else. This is why 90% of the posts here are now trash.

 

[YippieKaey]

Your take on Oshie is 180* from reality. The Caps have been making the playoffs. Their issue has been guys disappearing when it matters.

Carlson is not playing so you can't cite him for a reason the team is slumping, other than maybe his ABSENCE. I wanted to trade him for his bad playofff record the last several years but he's not to at fault for January's record. So not sure why you've bringing him up to justify your complaint about key players not pulling their weight right now.

Then you launch into some defense of your theory that has exactly f*** all to do with the last month.

There was also no "trend" last year, the team got covid and got cold. They came off their hot level of play before "old guard" players came back. That's called weak correlation and confirmation bias, not a trend. They were also hot early last season because Kuzy didn't suck at the time.

And this year when the injured players returned the team didn't suffer because of them, unless you think it was all Wilson, who is not old and slow and was playing well after a few games. He had zero to do with the loss to TML. And Nicky has been very good. I gave several reasons for their run of play and none of them need the "old and slow" excuse.

So thanks for proving my point about there being a narrative or agenda that's based on age bias and nothing else. This is why 90% of the posts here are now trash.

First time online?

 

[g00n]

First time online?

Ok you're not to be taken seriously then. Next.

 

[ClevelandCapsfan]

Ok you're not to be taken seriously then. Next.

Posters who disagree with your POV are not to be taken seriously. Gotcha.

 

[g00n]

Posters who disagree with your POV are not to be taken seriously. Gotcha.

No, people who make arguments and can't support them and then justify that with "welcome to the internet" aren't to be taken seriously.

 

[twabby]

Oshie does have the worst 5v5 xGF on the team in the postseason since the Cup run (32%), and is at -1.2 GD/60 at 5v5.

I think the “playoff performer” label for Oshie is a little overblown. I think production matters and in that regard he’s certainly performed well (2nd only behind Ovechkin in terms of point scoring in the postseason), but the overall impact matters too. His defensive deficiencies which help cause the team to lose the goal differential badly should count against him just as the points should count for him.

Does he provide enough value at his cap hit overall? I think it’s about time to move on personally. I think the “playoff performer” label better fits Backstrom to be honest.

 

[g00n]

Oshie does have the worst 5v5 xGF on the team in the postseason since the Cup run (32%), and is at -1.2 GD/60 at 5v5.

I think the “playoff performer” label for Oshie is a little overblown. I think production matters and in that regard he’s certainly performed well (2nd only behind Ovechkin in terms of point scoring in the postseason), but the overall impact matters too. His defensive deficiencies which help cause the team to lose the goal differential badly should count against him just as the points should count for him.

Does he provide enough value at his cap hit overall? I think it’s about time to move on personally. I think the “playoff performer” label better fits Backstrom to be honest.

Oh, xGF. Right. Imaginary numbers.

Go look at his actual points production and game film from the last 2 years.

He was clearly a net positive for the team as a playoff force, and iirc there was at least one series where the team fell apart after he was hurt (Carolina?).

He and Nicky both are here for the payoffs in the playoffs. Not whinging about theoretical stats in the regular season.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

Posters who disagree with your POV are not to be taken seriously. Gotcha.

I can’t even see the whole conversation but is it funny I think I know who this is to?

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

None of this has anything to do with the Leafs game so we’re done here.