Post-Game Talk: Capitals 3, Penguins 1 - Rage Rage Against The Dying Of the Light

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Gurglesons

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Our success also coincided with Sid and Geno not being mid 30s. You keep mentioning who played with whom when we won the Cup, ignoring my point about Sid and Geno aging. Geno also carried Fedotenko and Talbot to a Conn Smythe run. Doesn't mean we should expect him to do something similar now.

As for Boston's wingers, again, look at the *type* of wingers they had. Johansson was a deadline acquisition who added another playmaking type to their lineup. And DeBrusk had 27 goals that season. Not sure either Kapanen or Zucker are going to hit those totals (pace) this year.

You can keep saying the wingers are fine, but you keep ignoring my point about the type of player they are. It's not that, individually, guys like Zucker and Kapanen suck or are useless. They're good for what they are. But they're not the *type* of winger our centers need at this point in their careers.

Debrusk also accumulated a lot of that production on the PP. He is a 15-20 g guy at 5v5 which is what Zucker has been every year of his career until this one.

MoJo was their third line W.
 

chethejet

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GMJR simply didn't keep the team robust and imho went into a panic mode to meet expectations. Brassard trade just killed the chemistry and quite simply never recovered from that fiasco. Removing needed grit and sully just being inflexible as to not having balance to protect Sid and Geno from the kind of abuse they were taking is where the massive failure is. Adding complementary wingers as if that was the magic formula was a misguided attempt to keep some narrative going. Sully maybe the worst contract in the organization. Hextall and Burke will attempt to find some around the edge deals to get some grit but in the end, they know the big decisions will be made after another season where expectations are not close to reality.
 
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Sidney the Kidney

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Debrusk also accumulated a lot of that production on the PP. He is a 15-20 g guy at 5v5 which is what Zucker has been every year of his career until this one.

MoJo was their third line W.

And they still had more "playmakers" than the Pens currently have on the wings.

You ignore the fact they'd bump Pastrnak down to play with Krejci to give him help sometimes, too. Having multiple playmakers allows that. Compare that to the Pens where the only line that seems to produce is whatever line currently has Guentzel on it.
 

Gurglesons

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And they still had more "playmakers" than the Pens currently have on the wings.

You ignore the fact they'd bump Pastrnak down to play with Krejci to give him help sometimes, too. Having multiple playmakers allows that. Compare that to the Pens where the only line that seems to produce is whatever line currently has Guentzel on it.

If you transport Boston’s wings to our system and PITs wings to theirs I don’t see any difference tbh.

Their coach has been willing to move around their wings as you pointed out.
 

LOGiK

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And they still had more "playmakers" than the Pens currently have on the wings.

You ignore the fact they'd bump Pastrnak down to play with Krejci to give him help sometimes, too. Having multiple playmakers allows that. Compare that to the Pens where the only line that seems to produce is whatever line currently has Guentzel on it.

Yeah... I remember the whole, 'can jake play/produce now that he doesnt have sid' questions when sid went out.

Jake is really good. He goes well with Malkin too, as we have seen before he ultimately also went out....
 

Gurglesons

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Yeah... I remember the whole, 'can jake play/produce now that he doesnt have sid' questions when sid went out.

Jake is really good. He goes well with Malkin too, as we have seen before he ultimately also went out....

Rust and Zucker have proven to be solid play makers. I see nothing about Kapanen’s game that leads me to believe he can’t fit in our top six. The fact we are acting like MOJO and Jake Debrusk are a unicorn compared to our wings is just proving how f***ed our coaching has made our offensive situation.
 
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LOGiK

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Rust and Zucker have proven to be solid play makers. I see nothing about Kapanen’s game that leads me to believe he can’t fit in our top six. The fact we are acting like Jake Debrusk is a unicorn compared to our wings is just proving how f***ed our coaching has made our offensive situation.

Rust shoots everything and I mean everything. 14 gp 55 shots
I believe Zook's likes to shoot as well, but not with the penguins. 14gp 21 shots.

Play making... I donno how to look into that outside of assists...
 

Gurglesons

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Rust shoots everything and I mean everything. 14 gp 55 shots
I believe Zook's likes to shoot as well, but not with the penguins. 14gp 21 shots.

Play making... I donno how to look into that outside of assists...

Tbh. I’d argue our wingers and center are TOO dependent on playmaking.

They pass up shots all the time to do stupid shit like circle behind the net..
 
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Dipsy Doodle

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It really does need to be said that we weren't getting the old Kessel if we kept him around...as much as I despised that trade when it happened, I hated it because I wasn't convinced that Kessel's inevitable steep decline had already begun. It had. POJ could easily make that trade a win for us. I find myself putting Coyotes games on quite a bit and Kessel is what you'd expect him to be once his inevitable decline started...a PP specialist who isn't even good at the PP anymore.

Not replacing that elite production certainly hasn't helped, but keeping Kessel wouldn't have fixed that.


Hörnqvist, though...I won't even dignify the concept of defending that one. My hate for that trade has only grown and my initial reaction to it was even worse than my reaction to what felt like giving Kessel to Arizona at the time.

Kessel leads the Coyotes in PP points since going over, so he's still quite good on the PP:

NHL Stats

His 21 points would be tied with Crosby for 2nd in PP points on the Pens. This despite Keller, Schmaltz, and Chychrun not exactly being a "Crosby, Malkin, and Letang" calibre trio:

NHL Stats

Kessel and the Penguins made each other better because Kessel was a skilled RH shot, and the Pens were top-heavy with skilled LH shots.
 

HandshakeLine

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I feel like being on the Pens PP should actually be a bigger handicap than being on the 'Yotes. :laugh:

I still do not get how Reirden has a job in this league.
 

LOGiK

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Tbh. I’d argue our wingers and center are TOO dependent on playmaking.

They pass up shots all the time to do stupid shit like circle behind the net..

I don't really feel like getting into a semantics of passing = playmaking.

Just because you pass doesn't mean you are creating a play.... because then by definition everyone who passes is a playmaker and that isnt true.

Sid creates by separation and drawing players to him opening up passing lanes... etc which not everyone can do.

I'm not arguing your wrong pixie cause you are not wrong. I'm just... this is a discussion I don't have the time for =P
 

Gurglesons

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Kessel leads the Coyotes in PP points since going over, so he's still quite good on the PP:

NHL Stats

His 21 points would be tied with Crosby for 2nd in PP points on the Pens. This despite Keller, Schmaltz, and Chychrun not exactly being a "Crosby, Malkin, and Letang" calibre trio:

NHL Stats

Kessel and the Penguins made each other better because Kessel was a skilled RH shot, and the Pens were top-heavy with skilled LH shots.

Yes. What this team need is a 6.8 mil version of what we see in Zucker who has scored 23 goals (10 of which are at ES) in his last 100 games.

A 26 pt pace ES player over his last 100 games is certainly the X factor our top six needs.

Oh on top of that he has a 41% GF% during that time.
 
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Trade

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Rust shoots everything and I mean everything. 14 gp 55 shots
I believe Zook's likes to shoot as well, but not with the penguins. 14gp 21 shots.

Play making... I donno how to look into that outside of assists...
Problem is Zucker’s idea of playmaking recently is trying to force the play to Malkin instead of taking what the opposition gives him. Doubt that has much to do with the system, but Sully seemingly isn’t adamant to make any changes between Zucker and G.
 

LOGiK

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Problem is Zucker’s idea of playmaking recently is trying to force the play to Malkin instead of taking what the opposition gives him. Doubt that has much to do with the system, but Sully seemingly isn’t adamant to make any changes between Zucker and G.

I'm going to take the sully approach to this particular issue and ignore it and hope it goes away =P
 

Gurglesons

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I don't really feel like getting into a semantics of passing = playmaking.

Just because you pass doesn't mean you are creating a play.... because then by definition everyone who passes is a playmaker and that isnt true.

Sid creates by separation and drawing players to him opening up passing lanes... etc which not everyone can do.

I'm not arguing your wrong pixie cause you are not wrong. I'm just... this is a discussion I don't have the time for =P

I’m not sure this board needs more hyperbole of what this team has to get on wing. Who were these stud playmakers in 15-16 and 16-17?

Our centers are playmakers.

If Sullivan can’t make Kapanen, Zucker, Guentzel, Rust, Tanev, and McCann work as a top nine wing solution nothing is going to work as a top nine wing solution.
 
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Pittsburgh1776

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GMJR simply didn't keep the team robust and imho went into a panic mode to meet expectations. Brassard trade just killed the chemistry and quite simply never recovered from that fiasco. Removing needed grit and sully just being inflexible as to not having balance to protect Sid and Geno from the kind of abuse they were taking is where the massive failure is. Adding complementary wingers as if that was the magic formula was a misguided attempt to keep some narrative going. Sully maybe the worst contract in the organization. Hextall and Burke will attempt to find some around the edge deals to get some grit but in the end, they know the big decisions will be made after another season where expectations are not close to reality.

Malkin and Crosby have taken abuse since they entered the league. Malkin's always fought his own battles and no tough guy would have stopped Crosby's concussions. Rutherford destroyed the team when he went away from what worked and it was an emotional reaction. Speed never goes out of style and you take hits along the way but that's the nature of the game and this team particularly. We've been treading water since 2018.
 

LOGiK

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I’m not sure this board needs more hyperbole of what this team has to get on wing. Who were these stud playmakers in 15-16 and 16-17?

Our centers are playmakers.

If Sullivan can’t make Kapanen, Zucker, Guentzel, Rust, Tanev, and McCann work as a top nine wing solution nothing is going to work as a top nine wing solution.

I agree.

I look at the pens roster and it looks amazing.

Then they hit the ice and its...... not so amazing.
 
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Pens x

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I agree.

I look at the pens roster and it looks amazing.

Then they hit the ice and its...... not so amazing.
You think this roster is amazing?

tenor.gif
 
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Turin

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It’s crazy to me more people in the media aren’t burying Sullivan. 6 regulation wins in their last 30 RS games. That ain’t Sid and Malkin. Sorry.

Probably because there’s the vague memory of him leading the extremely injured Pens to the division lead. Which prompted the team to not be good at all ever since which is, to be fair, inexplicable.
 
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