There have been some rumors about the cap lately which may suggest compliance buyouts are not in order. The losses for this year will be covered by the players and owners as they have the 50/50 share on revenues. I think it was Friedman who reported that if (somehow) this season will be finished, escrow will be around 20%. If its cancelled it will hit roughly 35% as about a billion in revenues would be lost with the cancelation. For the future salary cap hit, it has been suggested to create an artificial cap for next year which could be the same as this year and then keep it for a few more years until the losses of the owners (from their 50% share) next season are covered. This might be the worst case for the Canucks, having no compliance buyout and a stagnant cap for several years with Pettersson and Hughes coming up for renewal next year could create quite a mess in 21-22.
TSN: Cap will go up next season. 84-88.2mil (cap increase now in jeopardy)
- Thread starter FreeMcdavid
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Canucks have decisions to make on Tanev, Markstrom and Tofoli, in addition to a bunch of other RFA's.
But if the cap stays flat, or even goes down, then Benning is screwed....he might not be able to bring back any of them.
But that's the risk and the price you pay for going out every July 1st and overpaying for bottom-of-the roster forwards.
But if the cap stays flat, or even goes down, then Benning is screwed....he might not be able to bring back any of them.
But that's the risk and the price you pay for going out every July 1st and overpaying for bottom-of-the roster forwards.
clunk
Registered User
Losing both Tanev and Markstrom would absolutely devastate this team. Like, there are no words to describe how ****ed the Canucks would be without them.. and even with them I still think the Canucks are ****ed long term.
Canucks aren't in as bad a shape as some are suggesting. Before the Pettersson and Hughes contracts kick in, Sutter, Pearson and Edler will all be coming off the books.
Next, before Boeser needs to be re upped, Eriksson's albatross of a contract will have ended, along with Roussel's and Beagle's.
The only real question mark for me is resigning Virtanen. If he is actually seeking $3-4 million a year on a large multi year contract, I think he's as good as gone.
In my opinion, if we want to bring back Tanev, Toffoli and Markstrom next year, one or both of Sutter and Baertschi will have to be traded or bought out.
If we could trade Baertschi and buyout Sutter, that would save us roughly $5.7 million next year ... more than enough to bring back the 3 ufas.
Next, before Boeser needs to be re upped, Eriksson's albatross of a contract will have ended, along with Roussel's and Beagle's.
The only real question mark for me is resigning Virtanen. If he is actually seeking $3-4 million a year on a large multi year contract, I think he's as good as gone.
In my opinion, if we want to bring back Tanev, Toffoli and Markstrom next year, one or both of Sutter and Baertschi will have to be traded or bought out.
If we could trade Baertschi and buyout Sutter, that would save us roughly $5.7 million next year ... more than enough to bring back the 3 ufas.
- Jan 23, 2010
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Getting Pearson who has been a very good 2nd line winger "off the books" when he is only making 3.75 million is not a good thing. That is a very capable player on a good contract who the team will either lose or will sign to a contract bigger than 3.75 million.
With Edler, they don't have a replacement and he's getting paid pretty close to what he's worth. So again, the contract will be gone but you will either need to replace him or re-sign him.
Even without knowing what the cap will be, the team will have major work to do if they want to field a similar roster for the upcoming years.
A whole lot of ignorance in this.
Trading Baertschi and a Sutter buyout would save ~4.6m not 5.7m and you also have to replace Sutter somehow, so even with a minimum salary guy thats almost another million gone. Similar for your other scenario, you have to replace Edler and Pearson. One is a top 4 defenseman right now, the other playing in the top 6, so you either try to replace them adequately or you worsen your team. If you anticipate 18m in salary for Hughes and Pettersson combined, the Canucks would have commited about 60m to 9 players. If the cap remains stagnant it would leave about 21.5m to for another 4 forwards, 5 defenseman and 2 goalies. And before anyone forgets, most likely another 1.7m of those 21.5m would be gone for deferred 20-21 bonuses (Pettersson and Hughes)
Lol ... here we go,
Baertsch's cap hit = $3.366
Sutter's buyout cap hit for 20/21=$2.041
$3.366+$2.041=$5.407
Replace Sutter?!? What his 8 goals and 48.9 faceoff percentage?!? You're kidding right?
Edler has definitely lost a step, and even if they resign him, it won't be for the $6 million he's making now.
Pearson I admit, would hurt to lose off of the roster. But HOPEFULLY, one of the youngsters can step in. Podkolzin would probably be a perfect match for Bo's winger, could he step in?
Baertschi is buried in the AHL, his cap hit is $2,291,666 as a result of if. And your calculation is completely upside down. His buyout cap hit is $2,041,667 but as it says, its his cap hit and not what you are saving. The savings would be $2,333,333 20-21 while also adding $1,166,667 on top in 21-22. So $2,291,666 + $2,333,333 = $4,624,999
And yes, you need to replace Sutter. Not because he is so damn good but because you have to ice 18 skaters. Any player you take out, you have to replace.
Again, how to you fill 5 F, 4D, 2G (I had it wrong in the last post) for $20m in 21-22 and have a halfway competitive team? The only defenseman signed right now is Tyler freakin Myers and you have no goalie. If you want to be convincing that there wont be cap troubles in 21-22, go show your work.
Rough and dirty roster numbers ... (with performance bonuses)
Miller Pettersson Boeser = $14.9
Pearson Horvat Toffoli = $14.75
Roussel Gaudette Virtanen =$8
Motte Beagle MacEwen = $5
Hughes Tanev =$7.6
Edler Myers =$12
Tryamkin Raferty =$3
Markstrom =$6
Demko =$1
Spooner + Luongo + Burried Eriksson = $9
Total = $80.25
Miller Pettersson Boeser = $14.9
Pearson Horvat Toffoli = $14.75
Roussel Gaudette Virtanen =$8
Motte Beagle MacEwen = $5
Hughes Tanev =$7.6
Edler Myers =$12
Tryamkin Raferty =$3
Markstrom =$6
Demko =$1
Spooner + Luongo + Burried Eriksson = $9
Total = $80.25
Oops. Forgot Sutter's buyout ... add $2.041 to the total.
Also Baertschi and Sutter's cap hit is $8.035 total.
If you trade Baertschi his total comes off the books.
If you buy out Sutter, his $2.33 comes off the books.
You are left with Sutter's buy out cap of $2.041.
$8.035-$2.041 is actually $5.994 you are saving.
Also Baertschi and Sutter's cap hit is $8.035 total.
If you trade Baertschi his total comes off the books.
If you buy out Sutter, his $2.33 comes off the books.
You are left with Sutter's buy out cap of $2.041.
$8.035-$2.041 is actually $5.994 you are saving.
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The whole point was about 21-22 when Hughes and Pettersson have new contracts, so why do a 20-21 roster?
Hypothetical numbers:
Toffoli - 5.5
Gaudette - 2
Virtanen - 3
Motte - 1.1
MacEewen - .900
Tanev - 6
Tryamkin - 2.3
Markstrom - 6
Toffoli - 5.5
Gaudette - 2
Virtanen - 3
Motte - 1.1
MacEewen - .900
Tanev - 6
Tryamkin - 2.3
Markstrom - 6
Whats up with those weird numbers? You dont seem to understand how the cap works. Since Baertschi is in the AHL only 2.3m count against the cap. Trading him wont magically add 3.3 to your cap space.
Also, as you forgot the Sutter buyout in your example before, you are already over the cap, with a 20 man roster. I am sure you are aware that you need more than 20 players to go through a season.
Because next year is the crunch year before contracts start disappearing from the roster.
What happened to Ferland? The latest report is that he's healthy and working out with no symptoms. Benn is missing as well.
Also you're three players short of a full 23 man roster.
Again it was all about the 21-22 roster. Now taking your contract from this and adding Pettersson and Hughes at 9m each (which is probably rather low) you get to this:
Miller-Pettersson-Boeser 20.125m
Eriksson-Horvat-Toffoli 17m
Roussel-Beagle-Virtanen 9m
Motte-Gaudette-MacEwen 4m
Hughes-Tanev 15m
Pylon A - Myers 7m
Pylon B - Tryamkin 3.3
Markstrom / Demko 8m
Sutter buyout, Luongo recapture, deferred Bonuses (EP,QH) 5.9m
= $89.325m.
The roster is worse, the defense is terrible and you are likely 8m above the cap while still needing two more players on the team. Well done!
But in 21-22 you are also adding at least 18m with the new contracts and you somehow need to fill out the roster you know?
That's why I said the one main question mark IF they want to keep Toffoli, Markstrom and Tanev is Virtanen. Filling his spot with a ELC would get you close to the cap.
And holy balls man, I didn't ever say bury Baerstchi. I said trade Baertschi and buyout Sutter.
xtra
Registered User
You really don't get it do you? Baertschi is already buried, his cap hit is only at this stage 2.3m. Trading him gives you 2.3m more than you got now.
Anyhow, I leave it here. You said there is no cap problem in 21-22 and you apparently still have that opinion even after it was shown that barely keeping that roster (actually worse) is likely millions over the cap. There is no point on discussing that even further with you.
My apologies. I do see what you mean with the Baertchi contract. I was wiping the whole contract, but really only needed to add the non buried salary. And I also didn't say they didn't have cap problems, I just said they weren't as damning as some people are suggesting. Don't get be wrong, I pray that the Canucks get a compliance buyout just as much as anyone else. I mean I think that they could trade, bury, or buyout Sutter, Baertschi or Benn. It's that damn Eriksson deal that is really tough to get off the books.
In a perfect world they could compliance buyout Eriksson, buyout Sutter, trade ?!? Baertschi, and bury Benn to save them ..... well, save a bunch of money anyways.
I would imagine they are going to have to bridge Pettersson and Hughes ala Boeser, Werenski, Point.
Question, has there ever been a 1 year bridge? Can't think of one off the top of my head.
Question, has there ever been a 1 year bridge? Can't think of one off the top of my head.
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