Cap Crap

[settinguptheplay]

Team is bad. Check
Team was expected to be bad. Check
Bad teams tend to have bad contracts. Check
Rehashing the same song over and over. Check.

Are the bad contracts hurting our cap? No. Is it likely too? No. It is not my money so unless we are pressed against the cap I see no reason to concern myself with bad players on bad contracts. If it prevents us from signing Pettersson then ya I have a problem with it. But it is not going to.

Is it not mentally draining to be so negative all the time? Seem's rage is the "in" thing these days.

 

[I in the Eye]

Are the bad contracts hurting our cap? No. Is it likely too? No. It is not my money so unless we are pressed against the cap I see no reason to concern myself with bad players on bad contracts. If it prevents us from signing Pettersson then ya I have a problem with it. But it is not going to.

In 5 minutes, list all the ways cap space can be used as an asset. And go:

 

[Breakers]

who is the oldest high end UFA

I guess it is Pavelski?

5 years $30-40 million
Deal runs out when he is 40

 

[ATypicalCanadian]

Eriksson - Besides the boat anchor of a contract, he seems to have no real desire to improve anywhere. Paterson and Botchford mention this frequently, but he's always the first to leave practice while other guys work on their shots etc.

Beagle - I hated the contract then and I hate it now. We could have signed someone like Eric Fehr for 1M.

Schaller - Hold out some hope you can sell him retained for a year as a depth option I guess otherwise it should be the AHL. Simply hasn't been woethwhile signing.

Spooner - A Benning guy. I think he's here for next year either way.

Baertschi - I just hope he can become healthy again and gets past the concussion problems he's having.

 

[mathonwy]

Team is bad. Check
Team was expected to be bad. Check
Bad teams tend to have bad contracts. Check
Rehashing the same song over and over. Check.

Are the bad contracts hurting our cap? No. Is it likely too? No. It is not my money so unless we are pressed against the cap I see no reason to concern myself with bad players on bad contracts. If it prevents us from signing Pettersson then ya I have a problem with it. But it is not going to.

Is it not mentally draining to be so negative all the time? Seem's rage is the "in" thing these days.

Rage has been an “in” thing with this franchise since those inconceivably stupid extensions to Sbisa and Dorsett which created a cap domino effect of mediocrity and stealth tanking into NHL’s cellar.

You know what else is an “in” thing?

Ignorance.

If one cannot see by now what a crap show this front office is then the only reasonable explanation is willful ignorance.

Salary cap management reigns supreme in this NHL and we went from one of THE best salary cap managed team under Gillis to one of THE worst salary cap managed teams under Benning.

Sad!

 

[settinguptheplay]

In 5 minutes, list all the ways cap space can be used as an asset. And go:

I am not arguing that cap space is not an asset. My point is we have enough cap space to sign everyone we need to sign with plenty of money left over to weaponize it.

Only Boeser and Hutton are significant resigning's. The rest are low rent deals and with approx 30M free next year we could bring in a big ticket item and still have cap to play with. Not to mention the cap will continue to rise.

Rage for the sake of rage. All hail the twitter generation.

 

[4Twenty]

Team is bad. Check
Team was expected to be bad. Check
Bad teams tend to have bad contracts. Check
Rehashing the same song over and over. Check.

Are the bad contracts hurting our cap? No. Is it likely too? No. It is not my money so unless we are pressed against the cap I see no reason to concern myself with bad players on bad contracts. If it prevents us from signing Pettersson then ya I have a problem with it. But it is not going to.

Is it not mentally draining to be so negative all the time? Seem's rage is the "in" thing these days.

The priority of a team isn't signing Pettersson, the priority is having a team you can win with, when Pettersson is paid. The contracts are hurting the Canucks from being able to improve the current team so yes, it's hurting now and it's likely to in the future.

If you don't care how the money is spent, why are you even bothering to post in here about it?

Don't you want the team to be good someday? Wouldn't you want that dead cap space the OP talks about to go to actual good players, not anchors who do nothing but make the team worse?

Hilarious you call out the twitter generation....I'd say whining about whining is a bigger indictment of the twitter gen, and you're doing just that.

 

[settinguptheplay]

Rage has been an “in” thing with this franchise since those inconceivably stupid extensions to Sbisa and Dorsett which created a cap domino effect of mediocrity and stealth tanking into NHL’s cellar.

You know what else is an “in” thing?

Ignorance.

If one cannot see by now what a crap show this front office is then the only reasonable explanation is willful ignorance.

Salary cap management reigns supreme in this NHL and we went from one of THE best salary cap managed team under Gillis to one of THE worst salary cap managed teams under Benning.

Sad!

Another example of rage for the sake of rage. I expressed no opinion on the Canuck front office. Yet somehow your automatic responses was that I must be willfully ignorant if I don't see how bad Benning and co are. And again, I know the value of cap. But in our particular moment in time the bad signings have an exceptionally low probability of harming us long term. The next GM will have no problems cleaning up the mess.

Rage on brother.

 

[MarkMM]

Eriksson is dead weight, unmovable buy out caliber

You can’t twll me Sutter unmovable after Gudbranson got moved
Baertschi when healthy his contract is fine, if he’s on LTIR for the rest of his contract, whatever then

One concern is that to move Gudbranson we had to take back a contract that could potentially be nearly as bad in dead weight, so while Sutter could likely be moved given the right deal, that "right deal" may not leave us any further ahead. That's why those saying "we're rebuilding, the cap isn't an issue" are being proved fools.

 

[settinguptheplay]

The priority of a team isn't signing Pettersson, the priority is having a team you can win with, when Pettersson is paid. The contracts are hurting the Canucks from being able to improve the current team so yes, it's hurting now and it's likely to in the future.

If you don't care how the money is spent, why are you even bothering to post in here about it?

Don't you want the team to be good someday? Wouldn't you want that dead cap space the OP talks about to go to actual good players, not anchors who do nothing but make the team worse?

Hilarious you call out the twitter generation....I'd say whining about whining is a bigger indictment of the twitter gen, and you're doing just that.

Last one I'll respond to because it is evident you all just reading shit into what I am saying. Self reflection is a powerful tool. Frustration is beneficial for no one. The idea that a hockey team can make someone so frustrated that they vent the same thing almost everyday in every thread. I am not whining. I am asking how one can be so negative about the same thing everyday and not have it effect their real lives.

Twitter is a cesspool of anger and hostility. It reflects closely the political realities we are seeing today. The division among the people. The stress most are under.

Quickly to your point. I never said bad contracts are anything but what they are. Bad. My point is these bad contracts will not harm this teams ability to sign anyone moving forward. Unless we go out and offer Panarin and Karlsson to 12M each we are fine. And to be clear. I am not defending Benning as I suspect he will be on his way out anyway.

 

[4Twenty]

Last one I'll respond to because it is evident you all just reading **** into what I am saying. Self reflection is a powerful tool. Frustration is beneficial for no one. The idea that a hockey team can make someone so frustrated that they vent the same thing almost everyday in every thread. I am not whining. I am asking how one can be so negative about the same thing everyday and not have it effect their real lives.

Twitter is a cesspool of anger and hostility. It reflects closely the political realities we are seeing today. The division among the people. The stress most are under.

Quickly to your point. I never said bad contracts are anything but what they are. Bad. My point is these bad contracts will not harm this teams ability to sign anyone moving forward. Unless we go out and offer Panarin and Karlsson to 12M each we are fine. And to be clear. I am not defending Benning as I suspect he will be on his way out anyway.

Yeah, please don't respond again if all you're doing is reading shit into peoples opinions and telling him what they're allowed to care about. Twitter is what you make it.

Wouldn't you want to be able to sign both Panarin and Karlsson? That's the point. Dead cap space doesn't help you improve, being able to afford your homegrown stars salaries isn't the end goal.

 

[RobsonStreet]

The worst contracts on the team are likely whoever Jim Benning* spends the money on this summer.

The others might be manageable. Here’s how:

The cap crunch will be when Pettersson’s contract is up. It’s also hard to see the team being super competitive before then with the pieces they have. So salary needs to go away by Summer 2021.

Eriksson - the big one. Right now he might be untradeable. I’m pretty confident he will retire July 2020 or sooner. He will get his last big signing bonus (3 million) at that point. If not, you can probably trade him to a cap floor team that summer who will buy him out.

Beagle - what a dumb signing. Buyout proof contract. The best case scenario I can think of is to trade him to a team for an even worse AAV contract on a shorter term, then play out the string on that contract or buy it out. Sobotka and Marleau come to mind.

Roussel - if he fills a need on Horvats line, he’s fair value.

Pearson - we still don’t know what we have here but if he scores 40 points and drives play the way he has most of his career, he earns his contract. If he falls short, how badly he plays will inform what course of action to take, be it change of scenery trade, trade with salary retention, and so on.

*jynx

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Pettersson and Hughes won't need to be signed for another two years...Sutter,Spooner,Schaller,Tanev,Baertschi,Pearson will all be off the books...The cap is also going up....A lot of doomsaying around here for nothing.

Canucks also have $32.7M available cap space next season.

 

[tantalum]

Sure about that?

They have 10ish bodies to sign for that money. 3 of them are Boeser, Edler (or replacement) and Hutton. That will likely be ~$17 mil. So all of a sudden you have $15 mil left for the rest which ~2.5 M a piece or so. And we haven't discussed the major upgrades you need in the roster (two top 6 wingers for instance, substantial blueline improvements) and while they can shed salary to help that money can and will go very quickly.

 

[4Twenty]

Pettersson and Hughes won't need to be signed for another two years...Sutter,Spooner,Schaller,Tanev,Baertschi,Pearson will all be off the books...The cap is also going up....A lot of doomsaying around here for nothing.

Canucks also have $32.7M available cap space next season.

Where do you fit the players in the lineup after you spend the cap space?

How do you improve? Half that space is gone after you extend Boeser, Hutton and Edler.

The Canucks already have 12 forwards under contract next season, as well as 8 RFA's who are all likely to be qualified. What you don't ever seem to understand is that it isn't all about "space", it's about having the ability/flexibility to improve. Even if you waive players like Spooner, Schaller, Eriksson, they're still eating your cap space.

You're on record as stating this team will make the playoffs next year....I fail to see how that happens unless significant changes occur and by that, I mean they find a way to rid themselves of quite a number of the dead space orcatown mentioned in the OP.

Is this a playoff lineup next year as is, with no additions? Who are your proposed additions to the forward core? Who goes to fit them in? Riding the fence with a wait and see approach isn't going to work.

Tantalum beat me by a few minutes.

 

[VanJack]

Fair enough, but I'm sure the interest would be there if they could get rid of Gagner for example, and get an "upgrade" in Sutter for only $1M more.

If Kesler retires, I'd see what Bob Murray thinks of Sutter too.

You could be on to something....rumors were out there that Benning was talking to Ducks about Sutter before he went down with another season-ending injury. Those talks could heat up in the off-season if Kesler packs it in.

But of course Jimbo pulling the trigger on another trade with Bob Murray is enough to bring on a bad case of butterflies to the stomach and bad flashbacks.

 

[Hit the post]

But of course Jimbo pulling the trigger on another trade with Bob Murray is enough to bring on a bad case of butterflies to the stomach and bad flashbacks.

Moreso what he did AFTER the trade was blech. Dealing Bonino for Sutter (and giving them an upgraded pick).

I didn't have a problem with the trade at the time (I bought into the popular argument by pro-management posters who said, don't worry about Sbisa, he's just a cap dump; then Elmer turns around and gives him a raise after a fairly awful season).

 

[xtra]

Anyone contract is movable even gudbrandson is a great new line from benning defenders espically when they leave out the part of taking on just as bad a contract.

It’s like moving shit from one pile to another and then pointing at the original pile and being glad it’s smaller

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Where do you fit the players in the lineup after you spend the cap space?

How do you improve? Half that space is gone after you extend Boeser, Hutton and Edler.

The Canucks already have 12 forwards under contract next season, as well as 8 RFA's who are all likely to be qualified. What you don't ever seem to understand is that it isn't all about "space", it's about having the ability/flexibility to improve. Even if you waive players like Spooner, Schaller, Eriksson, they're still eating your cap space.

You're on record as stating this team will make the playoffs next year....I fail to see how that happens unless significant changes occur and by that, I mean they find a way to rid themselves of quite a number of the dead space orcatown mentioned in the OP.

Is this a playoff lineup next year as is, with no additions? Who are your proposed additions to the forward core? Who goes to fit them in? Riding the fence with a wait and see approach isn't going to work.

Tantalum beat me by a few minutes.

All those RFA's are going to get qualified?..Thats news....and the ones that are will probably only get moderate raises.

Will Boeser sign a bridge deal?..Will Baertschi retire?..Hughes comes in next season on an ELC..There's a lot of scenarios, and speculating that its going to be awesome/terrible.... Its a complete waste of energy at this point of the season.

Personally,I would package off Hutton (sell high),and Sutter (some salary retained) and get a top 6 winger..but that's just my .02 cents.

 

[Fire Benning]

I'm not even sure what you do with Eriksson and Sutter's contracts, no one is trading for them as positive assets and buying them out would be pointless based on how much you'd still be on the hook for.

The scary thing is I think when we talk about adding bargain value adds in free agency for cheap, Schaller is their idea of that, just shows how awful their pro scouting is.

And Beagle's contract is unsurprisingly looking like a strong buyout candidate as soon as this upcoming summer, and yet he's buyout proof as well..lol, such a dumb move right from the get go, 6 or 7 guys in the scrap heap are available every year who are on his level making peanuts on 1-year deals, just awful cap management.

It's a rough situation. And it sounds like Benning will once again be active on July 1 if he's still around, and then there's the prospect of an Edler extension, love Edler and would be fine with keeping him but anything with a sizable cap hit over 2 years scares me. This team can't afford a 3-4 year Edler contract with another big money deal for a middling UFA, Benning needs to be shot out of a cannon shortly after the season to prevent this from happening. Then we'll see how the new GM attempts to sort all of this out.

 

[4Twenty]

All those RFA's are going to get qualified?..Thats news....and the ones that are will probably only get moderate raises.

Will Boeser sign a bridge deal?..Will Baertschi retire?..Hughes comes in next season on an ELC..There's a lot of scenarios, and speculating that its going to be awesome/terrible.... Its a complete waste of energy at this point of the season.

Personally,I would package off Hutton (sell high),and Sutter (some salary retained) and get a top 6 winger..but that's just my .02 cents.

Classic POM, in a post full of questions you respond to a statement about RFA's, completely glossing over the point that there are already 12 forwards signed.

Is the team good enough as is to be in the playoffs? You talk about wasting energy speculating, you've already speculated they will be a playoff team...I'm trying to find out on what grounds?

You can't throw out claims that they've got enough cap space, and then not actually dig into where that will get spent. Even if Baertschi LTIR's, they can't go much over the cap in the summer. Boeser's bridge is still going to be near Horvat/Eriksson money.

I just have an issue how you come in here making claims about how they have enough cap and it won't hurt, but aren't willing to actually go deeper. No one is saying you need to speculate about it being awesome or terrible....that's not speculation anyways, that's just making claims.

 

[4Twenty]

I'm not even sure what you do with Eriksson and Sutter's contracts, they'd be pretty hard to move at this point and buying them out would be pointless based on how much you'd still be on the hook for.

The scary thing is I think when we talk about adding bargain value adds in free agency for cheap, Schaller is their idea of that, just shows how awful their pro scouting is.

And Beagle's contract is unsurprisingly looking like a strong buyout candidate as soon as this upcoming summer, and yet he's buyout proof as well..lol, such a dumb move right from the get go, 6 or 7 guys in the scrap heap are available every year who are on his level making peanuts on 1-year deals, just awful cap management.

It's a rough situation. And it sounds like Benning will once again be active on July 1 if he's still around, we can only hope he gets shot out of a cannon shortly after the season and the new GM will attempt to sort all of this out.

Force Loui to ride the bus in Utica for the money. Sure it only eliminates $1m from the cap space, but creates a roster place for a better/younger player.

Sutter you hope a team is interested in for a mid-late pick and count your losses and move on. They're not going to be able to improve the roster without creating space (not just cap space, lineup spots).

I don't think they'll have any interest in shopping Beagle until after the 2019/2020 season anyways.

 

[Hit the post]

I'm not even sure what you do with Eriksson and Sutter's contracts, they'd be pretty hard to move at this point and buying them out would be pointless based on how much you'd still be on the hook for.

The scary thing is I think when we talk about adding bargain value adds in free agency for cheap, Schaller is their idea of that, just shows how awful their pro scouting is.

And Beagle's contract is unsurprisingly looking like a strong buyout candidate as soon as this upcoming summer, and yet he's buyout proof as well..lol, such a dumb move right from the get go, 6 or 7 guys in the scrap heap are available every year who are on his level making peanuts on 1-year deals, just awful cap management.

It's a rough situation. And it sounds like Benning will once again be active on July 1 if he's still around, and then there's the prospect of an Edler extension, love Edler and would be fine with keeping him but anything with a sizable cap hit over 2 years scares me. This team can't afford an 3-4 year Edler contract with another big money deal for a middling UFA, Benning needs to be shot out of a cannon shortly after the season to prevent this from happening. Then we'll see how the new GM attempts to sort all of this out.

What’s odd is giving a player term (and NTC no less for Beagle), yet you’re not getting any kind of discount in return.

 

[Fire Benning]

What’s odd is giving a player term (and NTC no less for Beagle), yet you’re not getting any kind of discount in return.

Benning's supreme negotiating skills coming through once again.

 

[Fire Benning]

Pettersson and Hughes won't need to be signed for another two years...Sutter,Spooner,Schaller,Tanev,Baertschi,Pearson will all be off the books...The cap is also going up....A lot of doomsaying around here for nothing.

Canucks also have $32.7M available cap space next season.