Post-Game Talk: Canucks vs. Flames - Shredder def. Turtles 3 - 2 (SO)

[Pseudonymous*]

His defensive game is/can be good enough for it. Pair him with an offensive guy to compensate. I would wager his offensive game will improve, but it won't reach the lofty heights of guys like Edler or Bieksa.

Well our top 4 is bieksa/garrison/hamhuis/edler

So if you say lofty heights of bieksa who i consider 4th best if garrison turns out as i expect, then how is he top 4? top 4's on good teams generally are real good no?

or do you just mean he could be a top 4 d on a lousy team where hes playing above his means

Remember i said a top team.

 

[orcatown]

Still very helter-skelter, disorganized effort. Some flow at times but way too spread out. Big gaps b/w forwards and the defense and often little puck support. Luckily it was Calgary but against better teams this kind of effort is not going to do no matter how well the goalie plays. Refs could probably be blamed for taking away the momentum and flow the Canucks did have in the early part of the game.

The Good

Kassian - In some ways he is the perfect player for the Sedins. Can set picks and create space. Will need to work on banging pucks in from around the crease and being prepared for the unexpected from the Sedins. I've watched Kassian all year in the AHL and have seen him go into beast mode. But I've also seen him go AWOL. I think it is real important who Kassian plays with the support he gets. He often goes for the big or unorthodox move and this can result in bad turnovers. I think there will be times when the fans and team will have to show some patience with Kassian but there is obviously huge upside here. One thing that I didn't expect was that he would be able to control the puck in the offensive zone like he did in the AHL.

Schnieder - I still think he should challenge a bit more on shots coming off the wing but the goals that beat him were great shots. He can be better and got a little lucky at times but he was very good sat times - especially in the shoot out.

Tanev - you wish he had some offense but in terms of getting the puck out of danger and getting puck movement through the middle of the ice he is probably our best defenseman. Let's the puck do the work and doesn't end up lugging the puck all over the ice like some of the other defenseman. Doing his best to cover Ballard's butt.

Burrows - far from perfect but given that he was playing out of position did an admiral job. There were times when he starting showing the old fire which has been such a critical aspect for is team over the last years. Thought he was showing the way in much of his play tonight.

Raymond - not burdened down with Ebbett and had very good game. Canucks need to find match ups and line mates that can exploit the talent this player has. With Kassian our best forward.

The Bad

Edler - I don't know if it is playing on the right side or the new contracts but Edler was incredibly sloppy. Wasn't just that his stick work was erratic but that his passes, when finally made, were often aimless. You wonder if they could get with Tanev to settle him down and get him back on the left side. I know this involves less than ideal situations elsewhere in the defensive combos but right now Edler's play is making it hard on Garrison and the rest of the team.

Hamhuis - clearly not skating as well as usual and making bad turnovers and coverage decisions. Does not appear game ready and much of the time now you are just hoping he doesn't screw things up.

Bieksa - looks somewhat like the brain dead Bieksa that so frustrated fans in the past. Just not in sync and over carrying the puck. Saw Bieksa make a lot of mental errors in this game. Some of the problems might be related to playing with the struggling Hamhuis. These guys should get it together and at least some of the problems they are having come from poor forward play and not being provided better outlets for their passes (and that's where Kesler is so important)

LaPierre - Is not showing the speed he has in the past. Hopefully just rust but looks off balance and awkward at times and keeps falling out of the lay. His line got tied up in their end too much. Masybe he has to get back to yapping

Malhotra - It's all been said. Puck movement remains absolutely tentative and he gets so easily moved off the puck. What happened to this player??? You'd think he could move beyond the eye injury but I guess not.

Other thoughts

Weise is plumber and any thoughts that he could be moved up onto an offensive line are too ambitious. The Dutch league is the Dutch league and Weise is Weise.

Higgins had couple of good shifts but remains overall very mediocre

Thought Schroeder showed very well. Was useful in the defensive end and showed good speed and good puck movement. Most importantly he showed the ability to hold his own in the physical going and to pack the puck out of his zone.

AV needs to go with Schroeder and not pull him after one mistake (while he goes on with someone like Malhotra who never stops making mistakes). Moreover, the play of Schroeder tonite has to call into question the teams's judgement in using Ebbett over Schroeder. It was obvious to anyone of us who had invested any time watching these players that Ebbett was absolutely and without reservation unable to lay at the NHL level. You had to go with Schroeder. The experiment with Ebbett was as ill-considered as any decision made by the team over the past while.

Also, AV needs to be imaginative and flexible enough to adjust the system to use the talent he has. That may mean varying at times from the locked own, fixed systems AV likes to use. His inability to adjust has been apparent in the playoffs and you wonder now if he will be able to adjust to the players he must now go with. Schroeder has talent and if used in the right way he could be helpful to this team.

 

[craigcaulks*]

Who cares, honestly. It's just sad when people hate Booth the hockey player because of the way he hunts.

If I find someone's life morally reprehensible I will be less likely toaccept/forgive their failures. i do not think I am in the minority. (not that I hate Booth or anything)

It's pretty simple, if one Canuck spent his weekends getting 19 yo girls drunk and another spent the weekend with sick kids we all know which one would be more liked by fans.

 

[craigcaulks*]

Stay on topic (i.e.--stop talking about hunting laws and ethics)

The Canucks should be hunting for more offence.

 

[Pseudonymous*]

The Canucks should be hunting for more offence.

luongo trade is going to happen. i expect something that helps in that regard

 

[craigcaulks*]

luongo trade is going to happen. i expect something that helps in that regard

We should be hunting for a trading partner!

 

[Pseudonymous*]

We should be hunting for a trading partner!

can't. gotta wait for teams to crash everybody 'thinks' theyre set with their team. and they want to see what they got

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Well our top 4 is bieksa/garrison/hamhuis/edler

So if you say lofty heights of bieksa who i consider 4th best if garrison turns out as i expect, then how is he top 4? top 4's on good teams generally are real good no?

or do you just mean he could be a top 4 d on a lousy team where hes playing above his means

Remember i said a top team.

I said offensive heights. Bieksa and Edler chip in around the 40+ point range. While I see Tanev eventually putting up some points, I don't see him getting into that range.

Could I eventually see him being a Top 4 D on this team (a good team)? Yes. But he won't be supplanting any of our current bunch any time soon. And no, that is not a knock on him, but a praise of our current top four.

 

[CookieCrumbs*]

Kassian - Beast on this 1st line. He pretty much carried it.

Schroeder - I thought he played really well for his first NHL game. The guy is definitely fast, and has some dirty hands. Excellent passer and I personally think a 2nd line of Raymond - Schroeder - Burrows would be AV's best option there. He needs to keep his head up though or he's going to get crunched.

The Higgins - Burrows - Hansen line were like chickens with their heads cut off for most the game. Burrows looked lost for the first bit, but did have some nice shifts out there. Hansen was the best of the 3 tonight. But even still, I wasn't impressed with that line at all. Higgins was useless. Is he back on the sauce?

Weise I thought played well. He's a little over anxious, as you would expect he would be being promoted by two lines. But I definitely like the direction he's going. He's always putting in 110%, that much is clear. Volpatti played fairly decent. We didn't see too much of him near the end for obvious reasons. But he did lay some nice heavy hits that got the crowd off their seats. His role on that 4th line isn't too complicated, so hopefully he can keep that consistent. He doesn't seem to be a liability with the puck either. I think he's due for a good fight soon though, yes?

Lapierre and Malhotra were brutal today. Anybody else think Lappy looks a lot slower with all of this apparent weight gain? He just doesn't have that same energy he brought in previous seasons. I think eventually Malhotra will end up a healthy scratch. What he brings on the ice is more important than what he brings off the ice, at least if we want a Cup here that needs to be realized.

All of the D were pretty sketchy other than the Ballard and Tanev pairing. That was a nice surprise. Bieksa looked lazy most the game. Garrison was VERY underwhelming tonight. Hopefully that changes soon.

I'm REALLY pumped (and relieved) that we squeaked out that win, but it should have been over in regulation. Not a great game overall.

 

[Outside99*]

I agree ideally if kassian can stay with the sedins, higgins burrows hansen would be a great 3rd line.

My concern is with the 2nd raymond kesler booth will just never have enough chemistry.

I still dont know what happens with the 2nd line.

Ditto. I've never been a Booth fan. no defensive awareness to speak of and a very individual player. The rest is up to Kes to make his line work. I could see Schroeder working out because he's defensively aware and a playmaker which that line needs. Also a little concerned with Higgins, played poorly against LAK in the po.

 

[Wizeman*]

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Booth Kesler Higgins
Raymond Schroeder Kassian

3 Solid lines

This.

AV always ends up going with two lines in the playoffs to squeeze offense. It would be nice if we could have another line that could generate offense.

I believe Kesler can form a fantastic checking line that gets 2nd line minutes. I believe this is the best lineup we can ice.

 

[craigcaulks*]

can't. gotta wait for teams to crash everybody 'thinks' theyre set with their team. and they want to see what they got

If we use bait it will be so easy!

 

[ProstheticConscience]

AV needs to go with Schroeder and not pull him after one mistake (while he goes on with someone like Malhotra who never stops making mistakes). Moreover, the play of Schroeder tonite has to call into question the teams's judgement in using Ebbett over Schroeder. It was obvious to anyone of us who had invested any time watching these players that Ebbett was absolutely and without reservation unable to lay at the NHL level. You had to go with Schroeder. The experiment with Ebbett was as ill-considered as any decision made by the team over the past while.

Also, AV needs to be imaginative and flexible enough to adjust the system to use the talent he has. That may mean varying at times from the locked own, fixed systems AV likes to use. His inability to adjust has been apparent in the playoffs and you wonder now if he will be able to adjust to the players he must now go with. Schroeder has talent and if used in the right way he could be helpful to this team.

This. This this this. Definitely agree.

I guess I was a little higher on the Edler/Garrison pairing than most, and oh yeah, Lapierre sucked.

But yeah, give Schroeder a shot. I was worried he'd be stapled to the bench after his bad penalty on Baertschi (sp?) in the 1st, but he hung in and Raymond really came live with him. Yeah, AV needs to go with the flow on this one.

 

[Pseudonymous*]

I said offensive heights. Bieksa and Edler chip in around the 40+ point range. While I see Tanev eventually putting up some points, I don't see him getting into that range.

Could I eventually see him being a Top 4 D on this team (a good team)? Yes. But he won't be supplanting any of our current bunch any time soon. And no, that is not a knock on him, but a praise of our current top four.

*shrug*

Ill come back to this post in a few years, ill truly be shocked if he makes it into a top 4 of a real strong team. I can see him being a suitable stopgap until your team finds one. like how raymond fills in for the time being. lots of 3rd liners fill in on the 2nd line when they lack 3 capable 2nd liners

 

[Orca Smash]

Does anyone else think mannys days as a canuck maybe numbered?

Gillis said in that extended version of the cam cole interview there will be some turnover this season to prepare for the cap change, and some of our younger guys will get a chance.

 

[keslerburrows]

This year when healthy our forwards will be pretty fricken sick.

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian/Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Burrows/Kassian
Raymond-Schroeder-Higgins/Hansen
Lapierre-Malhotra-Higgins/Hansen

Then next year:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Jensen-Kesler-Kassian
Booth-Schroeder-Raymond
Higgins-Lapierre-Hansen

Deadly.

 

[Pseudonymous*]

Does anyone else think mannys days as a canuck maybe numbered?

Gillis said in that extended version of the cam cole interview there will be some turnover this season to prepare for the cap change, and some of our younger guys will get a chance.

has to be gone. i can't see them giving him another contract. be a huge mistake. even if he plays okay this season. too much push from younger guys to keep guys like him (even on a cheaper contract)

 

[Pseudonymous*]

This year when healthy our forwards will be pretty fricken sick.

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian/Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Burrows/Kassian
Raymond-Schroeder-Higgins/Hansen
Lapierre-Malhotra-Higgins/Hansen

Then next year:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Jensen-Kesler-Kassian
Booth-Schroeder-Raymond
Higgins-Lapierre-Hansen

Deadly.

obviously not sure of the lines because they could go a few ways but the roster itself. so sexy

that fit under the cap? with the new contract for edler and all?

 

[Outside99*]

^good points Orca. I have a disagreement on Wiese. LY, he was a marginal 4th liner. When I compared him to say the Devils' 4th line in the playoffs, it was no contest, Wiese was basically treading water LY.

This year, he simply looks one step quicker (somebody posted he lost weight?) and just a more effective 4th liner overall. As the pace of play increases, will he be able to keep up? Let's hope so. But I agree, 3rd liner he is not (I never bought that one).

Edit; on Lapierre, the guy is just not that smart tbh. He does dumb stuff, like his training regime during the off season to get stronger thinking it won't affect the rest of his game (I could have told you that - its called the Gilbert Delorme syndrome). That's why he can cameo on the 3rd line with some monitoring/maintenance by AV but eventually, he regresses to the 4th line and has always been a marginal center because of it. He has the tools but the tools >> toolbox and now the toolbox is messing up the tools.

 

[CookieCrumbs*]

Lets not turn this into a "post your line up" thread please!

 

[Orca Smash]

has to be gone. i can't see them giving him another contract. be a huge mistake. even if he plays okay this season. too much push from younger guys to keep guys like him (even on a cheaper contract)

This was the gillis quote in the extended interview.

“It’s difficult when you have a good team to turn over a lot of players. Ideally, next year, I think we’ll have more turnover, because the cap changes and we have some younger players we feel will be ready to make the step.

“So we won’t have to sign the older, kind of journeyman player.

“Our hope now, as some of these younger guys step into our lineup, is that we start to get younger over the next couple of years, and we’ll retain our core guys that they’ll learn from, and it seems to be the kind of process that allows you to stay pretty good over a long period of time.â€



Read more:

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/...ng+prospects/7851486/story.html#ixzz2IsQWHFTn

 

[Pseudonymous*]

This was the gillis quote in the extended interview.

“It’s difficult when you have a good team to turn over a lot of players. Ideally, next year, I think we’ll have more turnover, because the cap changes and we have some younger players we feel will be ready to make the step.

“So we won’t have to sign the older, kind of journeyman player.

“Our hope now, as some of these younger guys step into our lineup, is that we start to get younger over the next couple of years, and we’ll retain our core guys that they’ll learn from, and it seems to be the kind of process that allows you to stay pretty good over a long period of time.”



Read more:

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/...ng+prospects/7851486/story.html#ixzz2IsQWHFTn

Yeah that doesn't tell you a whole lot about what they may do with manny though, considering they sort of considered him part of the core. and definitely used him to mentor young players

I love him as a player (pre injury), so its tough to swallow but has to be done

 

[orcatown]

Does anyone else think mannys days as a canuck maybe numbered?

Gillis said in that extended version of the cam cole interview there will be some turnover this season to prepare for the cap change, and some of our younger guys will get a chance.

I'm hoping he doesn't wait for the off season. We dump Malhotra's salary and we got far more flexibility in the Luongo trade or in bringing up people from the minors.

I'm saying that Andrew Gordon is a much better player. Gordon would totally outplay Malhotra in every category and brings grit and heavy body checking. Indeed Gordon is probably better than Volpatti.

The fact that the horrible Malhotra clings to a job over someone like Gordon is as much of a joke as Ebbett playing ahead of Schroeder.

If they don't do something with the Malhothra situation then this organization is short changing the fans. Malhotra should be on the waiver list by tomorrow morning.

I know the team has stressed the loyalty factor but in this case it is being carried to ridiculous extremes. Make Malhotra a playing coach with the Wolves with the clear indication that a nice job awaits him in the future with the team. But also call a spade a spade do do what is right for the team.

 

[CanadianPirate]

Does anyone else think mannys days as a canuck maybe numbered?

Gillis said in that extended version of the cam cole interview there will be some turnover this season to prepare for the cap change, and some of our younger guys will get a chance.

I'm more interested in what's going to happen to Higgins, Lapierre and Raymond. They are probably only going to be able to keep two of them.

Higgins is due for a raise from his 1.9 million. He is obviously rusty but when he gets his game going he is a valuable player that can be part of a dominant third line and a complimentary player on the second. I really hope Gillis finds a way to retain him.

On the other hand we have Lapierre. I wonder if Lapierre will want a raise from his 1 million? He has not done very much from when he signed that contract and is still a fourth line center/third line center in the playoffs or a desperate situation. He is another player that when he gets going compliments the team very well. He also raises his game in the playoffs which is very valuable.

The most interesting of these three is Raymond. At 2.275 million the canucks should get rid of him if he plays like last year but at the same time if he gets his game together he will probably want a raise.

 

[JuniorNelson]

I expected .250 hockey through the first four games, but didn't expect the Canucks to be fully extended by Calgary.

I think the lockout probably interfered with Gillis making moves in the offseason. I hope he has something lined up for centers!

If you just go by number of games, the Canucks are still in pre-season mode. This is always an adventure. They go on a tough three game road trip now. They could very easily go winless in California, facing Anahiem, SJ, then LA. It's a tough schedule!