OT: Canucks Sports & Entertainment Buy Vancouver Stealth NLL will be at Rogers Arena This Winter!!!

[famicommander]

The official reveal for the new team name, logos, and colors will be Friday but it seems people have done some sleuthing and figured out the name:
VancouverWarriors.com WHOIS, DNS, & Domain Info - DomainTools

The Canucks just registered a website for vancouverwarriors.com.

And if anyone is curious about the rest of the league:
-San Diego and Philadelphia begin play this season, bringing the league's total up to 11 teams
-Halifax is getting a team next season, with the old Rochester owner moving his team. Name will change.
-The Rochester market is being taken immediately over by the Bills/Sabres/Bandits owners with an expansion team, but the Knighthawks name and logos are still being used.
-The Golden State Warriors are buying a team, to begin play when their new arena opens
-TD Gardens in Boston is getting a team, probably next season
-New York is getting a team, probably next season as well
-Edmonton, Dallas, Nashville, Cleveland, Portland, and Chicago all have smoke that indicates they want a team

 

[JianYang]

Weird spot though. Who is their market @ Rogers arena?

Yeah, I think this going to be a tough sell. Remember the Vancouver Ravens? Pretty sure they played at GM Place, and that failed. I wonder what makes them think differently this time, as I suspect the demographic that would be interested in this product probably have less disposable income now than they did the first time NLL was in Vancouver.

I guess one good thing is that they don't overlap too much with the Whitecaps season, but that's not really a competitor that they had to deal with in their first go round either, at least not under the MLS brand.

 

[lawrence]

as I recall Ravens had to pay rent to Orca bay sports and entertainment for using GM place, now the "stealth" won't have too since its the same owner.

 

[JianYang]

as I recall Ravens had to pay rent to Orca bay sports and entertainment for using GM place, now the "stealth" won't have too since its the same owner.

That's an excellent point. So they cut expenses. But I'm still wondering during how they fill seats.

Which demo would be interested in vancouver, and if they are, do they have the disposable income to come to the games?

Colour me skeptical.

 

[lawrence]

That's an excellent point. So they cut expenses. But I'm still wondering during how they fill seats.

Which demo would be interested in vancouver, and if they are, do they have the disposable income to come to the games?

Colour me skeptical.

Vancouver Ravens - Wikipedia

looks like it had to do with lack of attendance, I hope things change this time around I honestly do. Pr and Marketing have to do a better job promoting this product.

 

[StreetHawk]

I hope it’s not warriors. No reason to use the same name as another North America pro sports team.

 

[JianYang]

Vancouver Ravens - Wikipedia

looks like it had to do with lack of attendance, I hope things change this time around I honestly do. Pr and Marketing have to do a better job promoting this product.

The Ravens had much more exposure than this current franchise had. Their games were on TV, they had advertising in the papers, when the newspapers were still attractive, and you would actually get some media coverage.

As for this current version out of Langley, the marketing was virtually non existent. Heck, you can even drive by the LEC, and you wouldn't know the Stealth actually play there. Its all covered with Vancouver Giants posters. As for media coverage, I can only think of one segment I heard on the radio that spotlighted the Stealth. They are also not on TV at all, as far as I know.

Its a far cry to even to get back to the exposure levels from the Raven days, but at least there's only way to go in terms of increasing it.

 

[RTN]

The Ravens had much more exposure than this current franchise had. Their games were on TV, they had advertising in the papers, when the newspapers were still attractive, and you would actually get some media coverage.

As for this current version out of Langley, the marketing was virtually non existent. Heck, you can even drive by the LEC, and you wouldn't know the Stealth actually play there. Its all covered with Vancouver Giants posters. As for media coverage, I can only think of one segment I heard on the radio that spotlighted the Stealth. They are also not on TV at all, as far as I know.

Its a far cry to even to get back to the exposure levels from the Raven days, but at least there's only way to go in terms of increasing it.

I'd also add that the Ravens came to be during a time when there was an rise in lacrosse popularity in BC. Maybe not quite the same effect as roller hockey in the 90s, but something similar. Tying the team to the Canucks will no doubt help marketing, but hard to compare to the Ravens years.

 

[canuckfan75]

Vancouver Warriors it is

 

[canuckfan75]

Steve Ewen (@SteveEwen) | Twitter

 

[StreetHawk]

Vancouver Warriors it is

Piggybacking off GS?

 

[famicommander]

Yeah, I think this going to be a tough sell. Remember the Vancouver Ravens? Pretty sure they played at GM Place, and that failed. I wonder what makes them think differently this time, as I suspect the demographic that would be interested in this product probably have less disposable income now than they did the first time NLL was in Vancouver.

I guess one good thing is that they don't overlap too much with the Whitecaps season, but that's not really a competitor that they had to deal with in their first go round either, at least not under the MLS brand.

The Ravens were owned by small time jokers that couldn't afford the lease at GM Place. Their ticket sales actually weren't too bad but they had almost no sponsors or media distribution, and most importantly they didn't get any revenue from parking or concessions sales.

The Ravens drew (per game):
10,211 in 2002
8,333 in 2003
7,124 in 2004

This time the Canucks own the team. They have all the media distribution they could want, they already have relationships with sponsors, they don't have to pay to lease the arena because they already control it, the team keeps parking and concessions revenue.

The Calgary Roughnecks franchise was struggling financially before the Flames bought them, but they were drawing 7-9K per game. The Flames took over and their crowds instantly jumped to 10-13K per game and the team is on sound financial footing.

The Ravens owners were just local businessmen that wanted to be able to say they owned a professional sports franchise. They didn't know what they were doing.

The Canucks are mostly buying the team for the same reasons that the Avs, Flames, Sabres, Flyers, Brooklyn Nets, and WNBA Connecticut Sun ownership groups all bought teams: to fill out arena dates. An NLL team gets you at least 9 home games, possibly more depending on optional preseason games and postseason. That's 9 fewer nights that the arena you're already paying to operate is sitting empty.

If they draw what the Ravens drew in their worst season -- about 7,000 per game -- the team will likely break even. If their attendance is close to 10,000 like every other team owned by an NHL or NBA owner, they'll be quite successful and they'll have gotten in pretty cheap in a league that is expanding in popularity quickly. Seven years ago they couldn't give away an NLL franchise, now they have the Canucks, Joe Tsai of Ali Baba, and Comcast among others lining up to pay 5 million dollars each for a team.

 

[Cancuks]

First they rip off the name. Then they ripoff the colors from Vegas.

 

[famicommander]

First they rip off the name. Then they ripoff the colors from Vegas.

Vegas ripped off the old New York Titans NLL team in the first place

 

[Blade Paradigm]

The Ravens name would have been a nice touch. However, the original team's history is complicated, and I can understand the new group's desire for a fresh start.

Arthur Griffiths' vision of the various GM Place sports franchises revolved around the theme of animals in Haida culture: the orca, grizzly bear, and raven. Numerous names were considered for the NBA team. Of course, they never came around to using the Ravens name themselves. Tom Mayenknecht, who worked for the Grizzlies, used the Ravens name for his eventual NLL team.

Orcas, Ravens or Grizzlies: new hoop team is going native: [FINAL Edition]
Beamish, Mike. The Vancouver Sun; Vancouver, B.C. [Vancouver, B.C]04 Aug 1994: C10.

Naming a professional sports team is a perilous business, far trickier than you might think. It's also a frustrating business for those of us trying to find out the moniker for Vancouver's NBA expansion team. Talk about airtight security. Vancouver Orcas . . . Grizzlies . . . Ravens . . . Dragons? Which is it going to be? And why is it so important?

...

The Vancouver basketball group at least is pointed in the right direction. Make it relevant, make it local, like the Pittsburgh Steelers. What a name! What an image!

...

``I don't think a team and a name based on trends and fashion -- as they've done in Toronto -- is the way to go,'' says Larry Donen, director of retail operations for the Canucks and Arthur Griffiths' basketball No-Names. ``I think you want something that's relative to the geography and the heritage of our region. You want to appeal not only to your fan base, but you want something which will have worldwide appeal. In our situation, Asia is a very important marketplace.''

...

Hmmm. Red, black and white. Images of the Chicago Blackhawks and the work of indigenous B.C. artists such as Bill Reid, Lyle Wilson and Doug Cranmer come to mind. That's it! The No-names are going native. Appropriately, the scaled-down Haida long house, behind the Museum of Anthropology on the UBC campus, is the site for next Thursday's press conference, where the logo and team name are to be unveiled.

In the Haida culture, the Orca represents the highest life form and the spirit of the sky, ocean and forest. The Grizzly is a symbol of strength and, as legend has it, of procreation (??) The Raven is the creator being, respected for its influence but also known as a mischievous thief with a lustful, gluttonous edge.

One is already the chosen one, but all three work for me. A clue, perhaps? A featured exhibit at the museum this summer is Haisla artist Lyle Wilson's Transforming Grizzly Bear-Human.

"In the Haida culture, the Orca represents the highest life form and the spirit of the sky, ocean and forest. The Grizzly is a symbol of strength and, as legend has it, of procreation (??) The Raven is the creator being, respected for its influence but also known as a mischievous thief with a lustful, gluttonous edge." - Mike Beamish, Vancouver Sun, August 4, 1994

 

[Blade Paradigm]

The Ravens were owned by small time jokers that couldn't afford the lease at GM Place. Their ticket sales actually weren't too bad but they had almost no sponsors or media distribution, and most importantly they didn't get any revenue from parking or concessions sales.

The Ravens drew (per game):
10,211 in 2002
8,333 in 2003
7,124 in 2004

This time the Canucks own the team. They have all the media distribution they could want, they already have relationships with sponsors, they don't have to pay to lease the arena because they already control it, the team keeps parking and concessions revenue.

The Calgary Roughnecks franchise was struggling financially before the Flames bought them, but they were drawing 7-9K per game. The Flames took over and their crowds instantly jumped to 10-13K per game and the team is on sound financial footing.

The Ravens owners were just local businessmen that wanted to be able to say they owned a professional sports franchise. They didn't know what they were doing.

The Canucks are mostly buying the team for the same reasons that the Avs, Flames, Sabres, Flyers, Brooklyn Nets, and WNBA Connecticut Sun ownership groups all bought teams: to fill out arena dates. An NLL team gets you at least 9 home games, possibly more depending on optional preseason games and postseason. That's 9 fewer nights that the arena you're already paying to operate is sitting empty.

If they draw what the Ravens drew in their worst season -- about 7,000 per game -- the team will likely break even. If their attendance is close to 10,000 like every other team owned by an NHL or NBA owner, they'll be quite successful and they'll have gotten in pretty cheap in a league that is expanding in popularity quickly. Seven years ago they couldn't give away an NLL franchise, now they have the Canucks, Joe Tsai of Ali Baba, and Comcast among others lining up to pay 5 million dollars each for a team.

Here's a bit of additional information about the ownership of the Ravens.

The Ravens were originally co-owned by Tom Mayenknecht, Bob Smart, and David Stadnyk. They paid $500,000 for the team to enter the NLL.

Vancouver adds NLL Ravens | CBC Sports

Vancouver adds NLL Ravens
CBC Sports · April 9, 2001

Acknowledging both an aboriginal heritage and a wealth of local talent to choose from, the Vancouver Ravens were unveiled Monday as the newest franchise in the National Lacrosse League.

David Stadnyk, one of the team's three principle owners, said because of the number of B.C. players already in the league, there was some resistance to granting Vancouver a franchise.

...

Tom Mayenknecht, one of the team's co-owners, said the raven was chosen because in aboriginal mythology, the bird was a trickster.

...

Stadnyk, along with Mayenknecht and Bob Smart, also owns the Vancouver Whitecaps of the North American A-League soccer and the Vancouver Breakers of the North American W-League.

The three paid $500,000 US for the NLL franchise.

Stadnyk said the team will need to draw crowds of between 6,000 and 7,000 to break even.

...

Not too long after, Paul Reinhart purchased majority ownership of the team but then defaulted it back to the Mayenknecht group.

Former NHL player buys Vancouver Ravens

Former NHL player buys Vancouver Ravens
Toronto
Published September 19, 2002 Updated April 17, 2018

The sale of the Vancouver Ravens for $1.4-million (U.S.) to ex-National Hockey League defenceman Paul Reinhart is expected to be completed next week, says National Lacrosse League commissioner Jim Jennings. Majority owner Tom Mayenknecht's transaction must be approved by the board of governors, but all indications are that it will pass with flying colours. "This is the highest price ever paid for an NLL team," Jennings said from his New York office. In their inaugural season, the Ravens averaged 10,211 at the gate -- third in the league and highest ever for a first-year team.

Original owner bails out team

Original owner bails out team
GRANT KERR
VANCOUVER
Published February 27, 2003 Updated April 16, 2018

The Vancouver Ravens continue to search for a willing sugar daddy who has the care and passion to keep the second-year semi-pro lacrosse team on the West Coast.

The Ravens have been on financial life support for two weeks after interim owner Paul Reinhart defaulted the franchise to the original ownership group, headed by Tom Mayenknecht.

Mayenknecht intends to meet the scheduled player payroll before tomorrow's National Lacrosse League game at GM Place against the New York Saints.

The Vancouver players were not paid on Feb. 14 after Reinhart stepped aside, citing mounting debts. Reinhart, a former National Hockey League player now in stocks promotions, did not complete a sales agreement with the group that founded the franchise for the 2001-02 NLL season.

"There are specific individuals that believe in the Vancouver Ravens and are interested in a positive solution," Mayenknecht said yesterday.

"There also are some other interesting hybrids that have come into the mix over the last seven or eight days that we're not dismissing.

"Not a single avenue will be left unexplored. That is the for-sure commitment of the current franchise ownership."

...

"We've obviously looking for a Vancouver-based solution," Mayenknecht said, adding that surviving the season is the only focus. "We have the resources to meet our short-term obligations."

...

In 2004, Mayenknecht tried to sell the team to an Atlanta-based group, but they bailed before an ownership transfer could be completed. The Ravens folded in 2005.

Franchise clings to life support

Franchise clings to life support
GRANT KERR
VANCOUVER
Published December 10, 2004 Updated April 21, 2018

The Vancouver Ravens franchise in the National Lacrosse League remains on life support, just a month before the regular season is scheduled to begin.

The cash-poor Ravens have until early next week to complete a revised business plan that meets NLL requirements, including a needed relocation to the Pacific Coliseum from General Motors Place.
Managing partner Tom Mayenknecht has tried to keep the Ravens operable since resuming

responsibilities from former owner Paul Reinhart 10 months ago. A retired National Hockey League player, Reinhart walked out on the club, leaving minority owner Mayenknecht to pick up the pieces.

"I've been treading water for so long, but at least things are back in our court," Mayenknecht said this week.

...

It's believed Mayenknecht, once a communications executive with the Vancouver Grizzlies of the National Basketball Association, requires at least $500,000 in operating capital for the Ravens to get the NLL go-ahead.

Mayenknecht would cut costs by changing venues. The 37-year-old Pacific Coliseum is home to the Vancouver Giants of the major-junior Western Hockey League. General Motors Place, opened 10 years ago, is owned and operated by Orca Bay Sports & Entertainment, the owner of the Vancouver Canucks of the National Hockey League.

Ravens players did not receive final payment from last season until late this past summer, despite the sale of 80 per cent of the franchise to Raj Kalra, an Atlanta-based Canadian with business connections in the dot-com field. Kalra's arrangement apparently collapsed.

...

Mayenknecht tried to revive the Ravens in 2007, but his partner in that arrangement bailed as well.

New ownership could revive NLL's Ravens

New ownership could revive NLL's Ravens
Vancouver Sun
Published: Monday, June 18, 2007

The Vancouver Ravens are preparing to fly again in the National Lacrosse League.

The NLL's board of governors will review an application today to revive the franchise that was suspended just two weeks before the start of the 2005 season following three years of financial instability.

Founder Tom Mayenknecht is helping facilitate a new Vancouver-Seattle ownership group that is headed up by Bob Whitsitt, a former president and general manager of the NBA Seattle Sonics and Portland Trail Blazers and a former president of the NFL Seattle Seahawks.

"What is being proposed under the Whitsitt plan will give the franchise the one major ingredient it was missing last time around and that's capital to succeed," Mayenknecht said Sunday.

A league source says the NLL's board is likely to grant conditional approval this week contingent on the Ravens securing an arena lease and 2,500 season-ticket commitments for the 2008 season.

The Ravens played from 2002-04 at GM Place but were set to move to the Pacific Coliseum for the 2005 season before things collapsed when Mayenknecht, the managing partner and de-facto owner, couldn't secure the necessary financing. With GM Place owners, Orca Bay, tied up with a messy court matter these days, it's likely the Ravens will need to look at the Coliseum.

The franchise's first three years were marked by continuous fretting over making payroll and road trips. After initial owner David Stadnyk pulled out before a game was ever played, Mayenknecht convinced ex-NHLer Paul Reinhart to come aboard. Reinhart, after ousting Mayenknecht following the inaugural season, then abandoned the franchise midway through Year 2.

In the summer of 2004, the NLL directed an Atlanta-based group to Mayenknecht, but the principals bailed that fall after never completing the ownership transfer.

The NLL took Mayenknecht and partners to court over unaddressed financial obligations.

During his period at the forefront of NLL team management in Vancouver, Mayenknecht remortgaged and then sold his home in an effort to keep the team alive. It was an ugly ordeal.

Court ruling gives future Vancouver owners fresh start | IL Indoor

Court ruling gives future Vancouver owners fresh start
December 6th, 2008 by Paul Tutka

A Federal Court decision made earlier this week in favor of the National Lacrosse League will ultimately now allow new ownership a clean start if and when a team in Vancouver, British Columbia were to reestablish itself in the city.

On April 28, 2008, the NLL filed suit in US Federal Court for the Southern District of New York against the former owners of the Vancouver Ravens franchise as well as other parties who may have had an interest in the club. On December 2, the Judge awarded to the NLL a monetary judgment against the club’s former owner, Tom Mayenknecht and various corporate ownership entities in the amount of $1,296,093 US and a declaration that the club’s former owners have no ownership rights in the franchise.

Mayenknecht, whose intentions always seemed pure when trying to establish an NLL team in the city of Vancouver, was himself actually a huge hurdle for any new potential owners looking to put a team in the city.

The former Ravens co-owner owned the rights to a Vancouver based NLL team, but reportedly also still owned various unaddressed financial obligations that would have been left on the lap of any potential future ownership groups. The Ravens status, previous to this week, ultimately left them collecting dust while no future potential owners were prepared to buy into what was very much a messy situation.

In previous years, Mayenknecht, who remortgaged and then later sold his West Vancouver home to keep the team alive, had attempted to bring in co-owners like former NHLer Paul Reinhart during the early days of the franchise, and Ottawa-born Atlanta-based businessman Raj Kalra during the franchise’s most desperate times. Neither partnership came close to bailing out the team, with a reported debt in late 2004 in excess of $1 million.

This recent ruling however will now allow a future owner in Vancouver to start building a franchise from a fresh slate versus the one that Mayenknecht and his ownership group had been working off of since 2001 when the franchise was first officially announced.

...

PressReader.com - Connecting People Through News

N.Y. court issues award to lacrosse league
Court awards NLL $1.29 million US
Vancouver Sun
6 Dec 2008
BY GARY KINGSTON VANCOUVER SUN

Tom Mayenknecht, who sold his house years ago in a failed bid to keep professional lacrosse going in Vancouver, says the National Lacrosse League "has no scruples whatsoever."

Now a marketing executive and radio host in Vancouver, Mayenknecht was responding to the release of a U.S. Federal Court judgment in New York that awarded $1.29 million US to the NLL against Mayenknecht "and various corporate ownership entities" of the defunct Vancouver Ravens, of which he was managing partner.

"I'm incredibly disappointed that they show how little principle they have," Mayenknecht said in an interview.

"It sickens me I even have to talk about it."

The NLL said in a statement that the judgment cleared the way for a return of pro lacrosse to Vancouver.

The court action was initiated in April 2008, nine months after the league asked Mayenknecht to work with one-time NBA executive Bob Whitsitt to put a franchise in Seattle.

The pair eventually tried to resurrect the Vancouver franchise that folded on the eve of the 2005 season, after three tumultuous campaigns.

During that time, losses mounted as Mayenknecht watched ex-NHL defenceman Paul Reinhart abandon his ownership and bridge financing from Raj Kalra and Partners Group 1 of Atlanta never fully materialize.

...

When trouble securing an arena lease deal at Pacific Coliseum delayed things, Whitsitt, worried about additional liabilities he might have to cover, pulled out.

...

Tom spoke to the new Vancouver Warriors' COO, GM, and head coach a few days ago on-air: