Canucks situation

[Yammer]

Gillis was the instrument of this situation. His hubris may of cost the Canucks a very good goaltender at the very least.

You might be right, but IMO there are not enough facts out there that would indicate that this is Gillis' fault, pure and simple, let alone that it was Gillis' hubris specifically.

Gillis comes off as impatient and condescending at times, but that is neither here nor there.

The situation is that there were two Number One goalies. The younger one emerged with better stats and obviously an easier contract so they tried to move the older one.

The older one made the first error in publically stating that he wouldn't object to being moved, thereby causing a Luongo Trade Watch to be commenced out in full scrutiny of NHL fandom and more importantly creating a situation whereby every GM "knew" that Luongo "had" to be moved - lowering the offers.

The older one clearly wanted to return to Florida for family reasons, lowering the offers.

Luongo may (it is only a rumour AFAIK) even have blocked a trade to Toronto one year ago.

Gillis' mistake was more or less publically agreeing that Schneider was the man moving forward, which I think lowered the value of Luongo even more.

But the largest factor, I believe, is that the new CBA not only closed the front-loading cap average loophole, it imposed a punitive, retroactive "cap recapture" scheme, making Luongo's contract extremely undesireable and outright unaffordable to lower-income teams.

At that point, the Schneider trade became inevitable...which means that, logically, other teams lowered their bids on Schneider.

As for the return, I think that a 1RP is about as good as it gets. The Canucks cannot afford to get a salary in return.

I'm not saying that Gillis is flawless - I despise the way that he rationalized the trading of Cody Hodgson, which to me is classless - he should have kept all of that stuff quiet and if he was really really needing to take the public heat off himself, he could have leaked it. Instead he was open about it.

But with this two-goalie business, no. Gillis handled it fine, to me.

 

[cotillion]

The next season is going to be an absolute circus. Torts + Luongo + aging team with new blood coming in... Who knows what will happen. I expect it to be entertaining though. My expectations for the progression of this team is tempered however, I say second round exit in 6.

 

[MrShift4]

Where is the 'just trying to get the best return given the current situation' option?

 

[Smokey McCanucks]

A good contending team that ran afoul of the CBA and now has to scramble to find cap space.

 

[biturbo19]

We traded the younger of our two goalies...

That doesn't look like 'rebuilding' to me. That looks like Gillis is calling this an 'upgrade' if i have to use the poll terminology.


Realistically, it's re-stocking the cupboards with a slight 'retool' while not really getting younger.

 

[BoHorvatFan]

I don't know how anyone can say we're upgrading, we haven't upgraded our NHL roster and probably won't at all. We've seriously downgraded our overall goaltending and losing Ballard hurts our D depth and that's just to get enough cap space to sign a bunch of cheap guys.

We'll be a slightly worse team with an extra good forward prospect. But for an alleged cup contender(but who are people kidding with that nonsense) it's not very impressive at all.

 

[Kryten]

I don't know how anyone can say we're upgrading, we haven't upgraded our NHL roster and probably won't at all. We've seriously downgraded our overall goaltending and losing Ballard hurts our D depth and that's just to get enough cap space to sign a bunch of cheap guys.

We'll be a slightly worse team with an extra good forward prospect. But for an alleged cup contender(but who are people kidding with that nonsense) it's not very impressive at all.

Losing ballard will be like it was last year without him, Corrado and barker outplayed him/was trusted more. So no loss will be felt there.

If our RFAs sign their qualifying offers, bring Gaunce up, sign a depth D for minimum, then theres 3.5-4m to spend on a top 6 RW.

I believe next years team will be a lot better than this years was. Especially with a healthy Booth, Kesler, and xxx a whole second line that Van was without for most of last year

 

[King of the ES*]

I don't know how anyone can say we're upgrading, we haven't upgraded our NHL roster and probably won't at all. We've seriously downgraded our overall goaltending and losing Ballard hurts our D depth and that's just to get enough cap space to sign a bunch of cheap guys.

We'll be a slightly worse team with an extra good forward prospect. But for an alleged cup contender(but who are people kidding with that nonsense) it's not very impressive at all.

Completely agree. It's going to be tough to watch Ballard contribute somewhere else, which I'm confident that he will. Putting him on waivers is a very short-sighted move - he's only got 2 years left on his deal. Why not see if Torts likes him? Another example of this GM's propensity to buy high and sell low.

The one positive piece of momentum that the Canucks have heading into the season is Torts. That will definitely provide a spark - an excellent hire, and the Canucks were extremely lucky that he happened to be available and interested in the job.

Besides that, our best goaltender is gone, Ballard's gone, Raymond's gone, Lapierre's not really a loss, but he's gone, too. Anybody who says this team has upgraded is kidding themselves. That said, with the way that so many people are talking about Schneider since he's been moved, many Canuck fans are proficient at self-delusion.

 

[King of the ES*]

I believe next years team will be a lot better than this years was. Especially with a healthy Booth, Kesler, and xxx a whole second line that Van was without for most of last year

What makes you think they'll be healthy? Kesler will be out for 6 - 8 weeks if he stubs his toe, Booth has played an 82-game season once in his life. There's that other roadblock of him not being a very good hockey player.

 

[GranvilleIsland]

We traded the younger of our two goalies...

That doesn't look like 'rebuilding' to me. That looks like Gillis is calling this an 'upgrade' if i have to use the poll terminology.


Realistically, it's re-stocking the cupboards with a slight 'retool' while not really getting younger.

Eriksson, Lack, Cannata make Schneider expendable going forward...

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Changed coaches, removed one goalie, made some draft picks. More than usual for this time of the year.

What I meant was they haven't done anything to the core of the team.

My feeling is that unless 2 of their prospects light-it-up the Canucks lose the NW next season, at least right now.

Management (and maybe ownership?) have been incredibly slow this year on decision making. It is great to have patience... but eventually you have to act.

 

[opendoor]

Eriksson, Lack, Cannata make Schneider expendable going forward...

Definitely. 3 guys without an NHL game between them definitely make one of the best younger goalies in the league redundant.

 

[slappipappi]

How can you think we're rebuilding?

Sedin Sedin Kassian
Booth Kesler Burrows
Higgins open Hansen
Completely open

Edler Garrison
Hamhuis Bieksa
Open Tanev

Luongo
Lack

Torts

Prospects who have a shot Jensen, Schroeder, Gaunce, Horvat, Shinkaruk, Lain, Corrado

This isn't a rebuilding team its a playoff team that has the talent that could win it all if it can be lucky and stay healthy. We now have some solid prospects pushing for spots and some who are legit top line potential. Canucks are in a great position in avoiding a full out rebuild and sucking for years. Torts should be able to give this core a kick in the ass.

The Canucks really have zero current core players who are still improving; in fact most are likely regressing.

A full out rebuild is likely around the corner. The Canucks two first round picks is a great kick start to that movement.

ONe last kick at the cat this year, and then see. But a rebuild will happen sooner than later.

 

[Hardyvan123]

The Canucks really have zero current core players who are still improving; in fact most are likely regressing.

A full out rebuild is likely around the corner. The Canucks two first round picks is a great kick start to that movement.

ONe last kick at the cat this year, and then see. But a rebuild will happen sooner than later.

Pretty much this.

Only one guy can play goalie so having Lou the Bo instead of cory is an upgrade going forward period.

 

[GranvilleIsland]

Definitely. 3 guys without an NHL game between them definitely make one of the best younger goalies in the league redundant.

Yea no. My context is the fact we have Luongo and 3 goalies who have good upside makes Schneider expendable going forward. If people think that Schneider would have done better then Luongo in the playoffs then they seriously need a reality check, because both those goalies are elite. Our playoff success is gonna come down to how the players play in front of them perform. Sedins + Schneider or Sedins + Luongo. There isn't much of a difference if the Sedins are still our forwards.

 

[Fat Tony]

How many were praising getting lu for 5.3m a year when we signed him...? Almost everyone on this board, of course everyone will come out saying no...but they did.

At the time, I was hoping the deal would get rejected by the league. I thought it was cap circumvention. I also thought that it was bad for the Canucks.

 

[CascadiaPuck]

You might be right, but IMO there are not enough facts out there that would indicate that this is Gillis' fault, pure and simple, let alone that it was Gillis' hubris specifically.

Gillis comes off as impatient and condescending at times, but that is neither here nor there.

The situation is that there were two Number One goalies. The younger one emerged with better stats and obviously an easier contract so they tried to move the older one.

The older one made the first error in publically stating that he wouldn't object to being moved, thereby causing a Luongo Trade Watch to be commenced out in full scrutiny of NHL fandom and more importantly creating a situation whereby every GM "knew" that Luongo "had" to be moved - lowering the offers.

The older one clearly wanted to return to Florida for family reasons, lowering the offers.

Luongo may (it is only a rumour AFAIK) even have blocked a trade to Toronto one year ago.

Gillis' mistake was more or less publically agreeing that Schneider was the man moving forward, which I think lowered the value of Luongo even more.

But the largest factor, I believe, is that the new CBA not only closed the front-loading cap average loophole, it imposed a punitive, retroactive "cap recapture" scheme, making Luongo's contract extremely undesireable and outright unaffordable to lower-income teams.

At that point, the Schneider trade became inevitable...which means that, logically, other teams lowered their bids on Schneider.

As for the return, I think that a 1RP is about as good as it gets. The Canucks cannot afford to get a salary in return.

I'm not saying that Gillis is flawless - I despise the way that he rationalized the trading of Cody Hodgson, which to me is classless - he should have kept all of that stuff quiet and if he was really really needing to take the public heat off himself, he could have leaked it. Instead he was open about it.

But with this two-goalie business, no. Gillis handled it fine, to me.

Very well said.

 

[CherryToke]

totally a silent rebuild. Gillis says he believes in the core but it's pretty obvious he doesn't. he should just get on with the full rebuild and stop his nonsense.

 

[CascadiaPuck]

I voted "retool", though I think it's an upgrade on where things were at by the end of the season.

Yes, the team takes a hit in goal. But on a financial basis, given needs at other positions, keeping two #1 goalies was not an option. Something had to give. I freely acknowledge that this could sound crazy but I currently feel more optimistic heading into this season than I did in the previous two. Realigned divisions and new voices behind the bench may shake off some complacency. There is no more goalie drama to distract players. There seems to be a lot of potential for young talent to rise up. I know the off-season still has a way to go but I feel more upbeat and I think a (relatively) clean slate is going to help this team.

 

[Dural]

It's a retool, but at the same time, unless a youngster like Kassian or Schroeder step up in a big way offensively (this year, maybe next at the latest), it's also an admission that the aging pieces of this core (Sedins, Burrows, Bieksa...Luongo, if he even reports) won't see another Cup run. The realignment means the Canucks won't be able to feast on the NW, which has been very weak over the past few years; I'm expecting a 5-8 playoff seed this year, which probably means another first round exit.

If a number of prospects develop nicely over the next few years, then the next younger group of core players (Kesler, Hansen, Edler, Garrison, Hamhuis) will be in a position to make a run. Even this probably hinges on unloading Luongo without taking a cap hit, having Lack or Erikson become above-average on cheap contracts, and spending that cap savings in a very productive way.

I'm really not too concerned about replacing the Sedins after this year, because post-getting speed bagged by Marchand, they've combined for 2 goals in the last 2 playoff years (18 combined games). Maybe they could do great things as a second line (not possible with their current salaries), but it's just very difficult for me to envision them offensively leading us to the Cup.

 

[BoHorvatFan]

totally a silent rebuild. Gillis says he believes in the core but it's pretty obvious he doesn't. he should just get on with the full rebuild and stop his nonsense.

Gillis shouldn't believe in this core though, the core has had its chances. Sure the regular season points are great but in 5 years of division titles this in its prime core has managed 1 trip past the second round after almost blowing 3-0 lead to a weak Hawks team, two first round losses with a total of one win, and two second round losses.

The playoff resume of this core is pathetic. We can't just sit back and give this group another 5 years hoping the best in the west gets really weak so we can make a 2011 like run again.

All the core players have no trades and no movements and we're stuck with them. Kesler, Edler, Bieksa, Hamhuis, Garrison, Burrows, Luongo, even freaking higgins has 4 years and a NMC and he's a horrible playoff player.

more of the same to come, year after year unless our prospects really come in and have huge impacts or Torts has the biggest impact of any coach in history.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

I voted "retool", though I think it's an upgrade on where things were at by the end of the season.

Yes, the team takes a hit in goal. But on a financial basis, given needs at other positions, keeping two #1 goalies was not an option. Something had to give. I freely acknowledge that this could sound crazy but I currently feel more optimistic heading into this season than I did in the previous two. Realigned divisions and new voices behind the bench may shake off some complacency. There is no more goalie drama to distract players. There seems to be a lot of potential for young talent to rise up. I know the off-season still has a way to go but I feel more upbeat and I think a (relatively) clean slate is going to help this team.

Lower expectations I suspect.

 

[BoHorvatFan]

Has there ever been a less respected GM than Mike Gillis though? TSN hates the guy, CBC absolutely hates the guy, our organization gets zero respect under his management, he's the butt of jokes from fans all around the league, I remember back in 2008 the reports that other GM's were giving him insulting offers and didn't take him seriously.

I know it's hard to respect him after the whole Luongo thing and just his attitude in general and the way he trashed the prior regime then leached off/ is still leaching off their core.

I just can't remember a guy getting such little respect from every area of the media, and IMO it's pretty much deserved but it still shouldn't be so obvious. Good thing Tallon likes him.

 

[ARSix]

I know it's all meaningless semantics but I just don't see how you can call this process a "retool" when, so far, the Canucks are using all the same tools they have for the past 3 years.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Has there ever been a less respected GM than Mike Gillis though? TSN hates the guy, CBC absolutely hates the guy, our organization gets zero respect under his management, he's the butt of jokes from fans all around the league, I remember back in 2008 the reports that other GM's were giving him insulting offers and didn't take him seriously.

I know it's hard to respect him after the whole Luongo thing and just his attitude in general and the way he trashed the prior regime then leached off/ is still leaching off their core.

I just can't remember a guy getting such little respect from every area of the media, and IMO it's pretty much deserved but it still shouldn't be so obvious. Good thing Tallon likes him.

A lot of this has to do with Gillis' smugness and arrogance. Which, as we can all see, has absolutely no basis in reality.