Canucks situation

[Sedinery2011]

Calgary Flames style "rebuild"

 

[RandV]

Not sure what 'upgrade' is supposed to mean but I see the team in more of a 'restructuring' phase. Mostly the same team but with a new coach and new system (and you can get great results from this), and an attempt to start slowly phasing in a few young players.

 

[KeninsFan]

It's a definite retool. Management is stocking up on prospects to take transition into our new core while still staying competitive today.

This is the right answer.

 

[GranvilleIsland]

Forwards: Kassian, Horvat, Shinkaruk, Schroeder, Jensen, Gaunce, Labate, Cassels, Mallet, Blomstrand, Grenier.

Defense: Tanev, Corrado, Subban, Polasek, Andersson, McEneny, Hutton, McNally, Tommernes, Sauve.

Goalies: Eriksson, Lack, Cannata

We could definitely use a top 4 d prospect and some more d depth. Maybe another top 6 forward prospect as well. The cup boards definitely aren't bare anymore.

No need for a rebuild.

 

[rune74]

It's a definite retool. Management is stocking up on prospects to take transition into our new core while still staying competitive today.

This. You have to do this to not crap the bed for 6 to 7 years.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

It's a definite retool. Management is stocking up on prospects to take transition into our new core while still staying competitive today.

yip, and IMO they are doing a good job of it, time will be the only test, to bad so many cannot see the forest for the trees and get all emo.

 

[maxell91]

I really hope the canucks don't spend the next few years following the flames philosophy of being mediocre and clinging to a playoff spot. I rather this team be terrible for a season or two and draft some truly elite talent like the penguins and blackhawks did. The idea of if a team can just make it into the playoffs anything is possible is statistically proven to be wrong. I know the kings won as the eighth seed, but they were the best possession team going into the playoffs and so were the blackhawks this season. Anyway I say we give it a final attempt this season and then start a full rebuild.

 

[Yammer]

Anyway I say we give it a final attempt this season and then start a full rebuild.

This season or two, perhaps. But I see the value of what you say. That tanking for an elite prospect is a known and sometimes validated strategy to creating a truly dominant team.

I think that the Canucks may be alright in that regard if they can sell off pieces for high picks while still keeping a more than competitive lineup.

I almost hesitate to say it, but have we ever seen David Booth perform as well as he can? He's injury prone - still injured - but in theory has a lot of the skills you'd want in an attacking, offense-first team, which I hope and believe is Gillis's preferred mode of play.

A healthy Kesler and Booth is 2/3 of a potentially high scoring second or even first line, if they get a consistent playmaker on the right wing (Schroeder? Jensen? Shinkaruk? Free agent?) - a big IF.

 

[alternate]

I went upgrade, and it's really the only option that fits. Obviously we're not rebuilding when we just traded the younger, cheaper goalie. Obviously we're not re-tooling because we've got more or less the same core as the past 3-4 years. So by default, we're upgrading.

Where are those upgrades you ask? Have patience, they're coming...we're only 5 years into the 3 year plan.

 

[iFan]

Yeah we could use a D man who can develop into a top pairing guy, with our current D core we have a lot of time to develop such a player. But damn I love our center depth with Sedin and Kesler here and Gaunce and Horvat that's just insane considering we've made the playoffs and won the division how many times in how many years? When was the last rebuild or dark age for this team?.... 96 - 99? And this team should have since the WCE days we had a smooth transition to the Sedin era now after them it should be a smooth transition to the Horvat Shinkaruk era, if this pans out this is pretty nice.

 

[LiveeviL]

As long as the top 6 (really top 4 for this team) and the top pairings are untouched and that the new blood can have a shot at playing with The team I see it as an upgrade. Sure it can be seen as a prearation for retool if the Sedins quit in the near future or even sign for second line money. But that is then and not now.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Well with the removal of Ballard & Schneider from our roster we have cleared up cap space to sign someone significant so I imagine Gillis & co will pursue those UFA opportunities & we will see where we go from there.

 

[iFan]

I don't think we have the room to sign a big ticket ufa? Isn't that cap room to fill out the team? Maybe if Booth is gone we can afford it.

 

[iFan]

Also who would we sign? Is Clarkson really an upgrade on Booth? Iggy? I think he'd want too much for what he's worth but at the right price I'm game

 

[turkulad]

I'm thinking the management is doing everything to guarantee the franchise there is no need to do a rebuild once the Sedins and Luongo are calling it quits a few years from now. So a re-tool.

We got rid of pieces we couldn't afford and can now sign a Michael Ryder or someone else like that to give us more Top 6 depth and more tools to compete. We have a great goaltender, we have a great top 4 (with Tanev coming up and possibly a signing), we have the Sedins, Kesler, Booth, Burrows, Hansen, Higgins, all the young guns (Gaunce, Horvat, Jensen, Schroeder, Shinkaruk) ready and eager to deliver and fight their way in to the roster.

It's a change that has to be made and is a work-in-progress currently.

 

[Yossarian54]

This isn't a rebuilding team its a playoff team that has the talent that could win it all if it can be lucky and stay healthy. We now have some solid prospects pushing for spots and some who are legit top line potential. Canucks are in a great position in avoiding a full out rebuild and sucking for years. Torts should be able to give this core a kick in the ass.

Exactly. A new coach should be able to give the current core a kick in the arse, and hopefully get the players playing like they are capable of (D especially). We will still be in the top 4 teams in the west come the playoffs IMO.

We now have genuine 1st round talent in guys like Jensen, Corrado, Horvat and Shinkaruk, as well as the slightly older Schroeder and Kassian. That is the making of a new core, that can come through in 2-3 years IF the current group can't get it done.

 

[Yossarian54]

I don't think we have the room to sign a big ticket ufa? Isn't that cap room to fill out the team? Maybe if Booth is gone we can afford it.

You are correct, even with Ballard and Schneids gone, we have maybe 2M to use on UFAs, less if we want to give some guys on ELCs a try-out. We're not signing any big-ticket UFAs this year.

We will have to wait an see what happens with the cap and the Sedin's new contracts before we can go for any UFAs of any reasonable contract size.

 

[GrogZilla]

We have:
Sedin Sedin Kesler Burrows Booth Hansen Higgins
7 legitimate dependable top 9 forwards who can play in any situation.

With:
Kassian Schroeder Jensen Gaunce Horvat Shinkaruk
6 promising young players who project to be top 9 forwards

If we reach the point where prospects have developed enough that we have legit top 9 forwards on our 4th line, we're serious contenders.

If they don't develop fast enough, we still stay competitive for the foreseeable future.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Well with the removal of Ballard & Schneider from our roster we have cleared up cap space to sign someone significant so I imagine Gillis & co will pursue those UFA opportunities & we will see where we go from there.

Playing with capgeek. We are left with 2.7M once everyone who has to be re-signed, is signed. Hard to get anyone significant with that number.

 

[beamer67]

(And that is not to overlook the fact that Gillis is being destroyed in the court of public opinion for not trading Luongo two years ago, and I understand why.)

They are better because they are paying less for starter-quality goaltending and have or will shortly have room to sign the rest of a team, which they sure as heck did not have with two number one goalies.



.

Gillis was the instrument of this situation. His hubris may of cost the Canucks a very good goaltender at the very least. Prospects are just that and Horvat has the potential to bust like any prospect does. I hope the Canucks come out on top on this, but redardless of the outcome Gillis should be fired.

 

[ChilliBilly]

Gillis was the instrument of this situation. His hubris may of cost the Canucks a very good goaltender at the very least. Prospects are just that and Horvat has the potential to bust like any prospect does. I hope the Canucks come out on top on this, but redardless of the outcome Gillis should be fired.

Bullcrap. He got a lousy return for Schneider (would have expected a 2nd as well), but he was painted into a corner by the new CBA. The league has not treated the Canucks well, ******** officiating in the finals, and a CBA that screwed the Canucks and Luongo.

And I see us as doing an internal rebuild, (if any of the choices were really accurate) where we see the potential for a great team in 5 years when we see Luongo leave and the Sedins call it quits.

And I don't think there will be a bidding war for the UFA, those teams who throw money around are mostly pretty much near the cap now.

 

[beamer67]

Bullcrap. He got a lousy return for Schneider (would have expected a 2nd as well), but he was painted into a corner by the new CBA. The league has not treated the Canucks well, ******** officiating in the finals, and a CBA that screwed the Canucks and Luongo.

And I see us as doing an internal rebuild, (if any of the choices were really accurate) where we see the potential for a great team in 5 years when we see Luongo leave and the Sedins call it quits.

And I don't think there will be a bidding war for the UFA, those teams who throw money around are mostly pretty much near the cap now.

You need to take your tin hat off, every team in the league can say the same thing. Fact is there are teams that were smart enough to know where the wind was blowing and others who behaved like a 5yr old in a candy shop. You are right he did get a lousy return for Schnieder and thats because he painted himself into a corner.
There are way to many ifs in your assesmant, the canucks are just as likely to come out needing a full rebuild after the core is done.

You are also forgetting the cap will most likely rise in the next few years. The GMs know this and are probably going to conservatively factor this in when they bid for a player.
The fact remains Gillis should be fired.

 

[rune74]

You need to take your tin hat off, every team in the league can say the same thing. Fact is there are teams that were smart enough to know where the wind was blowing and others who behaved like a 5yr old in a candy shop. You are right he did get a lousy return for Schnieder and thats because he painted himself into a corner.
There are way to many ifs in your assesmant, the canucks are just as likely to come out needing a full rebuild after the core is done.

You are also forgetting the cap will most likely rise in the next few years. The GMs know this and are probably going to conservatively factor this in when they bid for a player.
The fact remains Gillis should be fired.

Really? How many were praising getting lu for 5.3m a year when we signed him...? Almost everyone on this board, of course everyone will come out saying no...but they did. I love the so called "experts" that say Gillis should be fired for not getting someone to take the contract the league turned into impossible situation. I think with the situation we found ourselves in we came out pretty good.

 

[ARSix]

Expectations have changed and the club has now begun laying the foundation for a rebuild. Basically, if you want to make the Calgary comparison, we are doing now what Calgary should've done 4 years ago. The Canucks were a contender. They are now simply a "good team", one that will make the playoffs and wouldn't be a shock if they went all the way, but are no longer a favourite by any means. Meanwhile, the core is aging. Now is the time to start making sure you have a pool in place to replace that core.

We've gone from a bare cupboard to the following good prospects:

Jensen
Kassian
Gaunce
Schroeder
Corrado
Horvat
Shinkaruk
Lack
Eriksson

We have another 2-3 years to improve upon that average-level talent pool, at which point the current core won't be able to carry us to playoff contention anymore. We're going to need some combination of those players, plus 3 year older versions of Edler / Tanev / Hansen / Kesler / Booth / Weise / Garrison, to carry us to the playoffs - to the extent those guys haven't left. A couple will. Still, if you end up with 5 (current or future) prospects on the team, that's 16 players. Obviously you'll then have a couple of acquisitions and a few guys still playing in their late 30's to fill out the roster. That's your "next generation" Vancouver Canucks.

To the extent we can pick up one high end and one "NHL level" prospect in each of the next three years, things should be looking up for a "silent rebuild" or a "rebuild on the fly" or whatever you want to call it. The main issue, as always, is the blue liners panning out, as they're quite difficult to draft. But there's always free agency, so long as it's in a supplementary role and not the centrepiece of your strategy (i.e. Hamhuis and Garrison). I say keep drafting forwards to play in the top 9.

 

[AmazingNuck]

You can argue that the team hasn't had a healthy season since our best season. Daniel or Kesler have been injured. Even if they return, the Canucks lack serious footspeed on the back-end. Sometimes, the players are good but the roster is just to self-conflicting.

Hamhuis, Edler, Bieksa (on a good year) and Garrison are excellent individual defensemen.... they may have some chemistry, but they don't really compliment each other in that they don't cover all the bases. Like the rest of our team, the top 4 rides on talent alone, rather than complimenting skills. There's no speed. There's no physicality. The top 4 is skilled, great with positioning, but there's nothing dynamic. The top 4 is basically there to tread water, not to win games.

In 2010, the top 4 was awesome. Really the best top 4 we've had possibly ever. The difference is Ehrhoff vs Garrison. Even if you want to argue that Garrison is a better defenseman than Ehrhoff, Ehrhoff compliments the rest of the top 4 much better. He added speed, puck handling, dynamic offense, zone-breaking, etc.. none of which our current defensemen have.

I think Gillis was trying to trade Edler to solve this speed issue. Maybe he wasn't directly trading Edler for a speedy defenseman, but he was trying to make room to add one.


Gillis is trying to re-tool.. he's trying to fix the flaws of this roster. Unfortunately, he's tied himself down with NTCs. Only now is he starting to realize that value and talent aren't as important as players who compliment one-another. I think he realized you can't just plug talent into holes.. you have to fill holes with players that make sense.