Askel
By the way Benning should be fired.
And in his last 3 seasons as Sabre he was a -49 scoring at a 30 pt pace. Saying that Myers wasn't caved in as a Sabre is cherrypicking stats
Player Discussion Canucks sign D Tyler Myers to 5-Year, $30m Deal ($6m AAV) | Part 2
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Johnny Canucker
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Sports is a funny thing. Don Taylor was raving today about how good of a skater he is for a big man.
All about each persons perceprion.
sting101
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sting101
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No its not
Do you think a defenseman that missed half of 2 and a 1/4 of the other season when the teams forwards were the worst in the entire NHL by a fair margin is being fairly judged by his corsi and plus minus stats during that duration? You do realize that the statement was about how Myers was getting destroyed in tough minutes in Buffalo
Like seriously this is what people are resorting to to prove that Myers was struggling as a defenseman in the NHL in Buffalo ? Jesus might as well say Edler sucks and is a 5 then because he's a negative corsi and horrendous -92 in our 5 of last 6 seasons out of the playoffs with injuries. We know thats not a fair evaluation for Edler but its ok to create a bullshit narrative for Myers?
Why not just use Winnipeg and save yourselves the embarrassment
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Why does quality of linemates matter for Myers but not for a guy like Hutton?
I think it does matter. Hutton did play better with better Dmen but those Dmen also happen to play better without Hutton for the most part. That's a problem for Hutton in terms of establishing his value. He's like a complimentary Dman on every pairing he's on. I sayu this believing that Hutton can be a solid 2nd pairing Dman in the NHL.
Askel
By the way Benning should be fired.
Eh WTF are you gong on about, ignoring the seasons that Myers was supposed to carry his team is the definition of cherrypicking stats FFS. When Buffalo want from a good team to a bad team, Myers collapsed. Myers has had one very good NHL season his first his never looked real good since then. He didn't play tough minutes in his first years in Buffalo.
As I said before I watch a lot of Buffalo games Myers couldn't handle being a top pairing d-man, Corsi stats from a d-man used in offensive role behind a good team doesn't change that.
And Edler in the last 5 year does not have close the offensive deployment that Myers has had. If Myers had been any sort of defensive d-man anytime in his career
Addison Rae
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Ignoring context when evaluating players is absurd. Edler plays in extremely tough deployment on the second worst team in the NHL over the past 4 years. Despite that his underlying numbers are absolutely fantastic.
Myers has had below league average underlying numbers playing behind two excellent RHD’s on a good team. Myers is not Gudbranson, he’s a player than can move the puck in a relatively sheltered role. But Edler is leaps and bounds better.
Myers has had below league average underlying numbers playing behind two excellent RHD’s on a good team. Myers is not Gudbranson, he’s a player than can move the puck in a relatively sheltered role. But Edler is leaps and bounds better.
So using his last 3 seasons in buffalo to judge him is creating a bullshit narrative yet selectively excluding the seasons when buffalo was bad and judging myers based on how he played 9+ seasons ago is a fair evaluation according to you.
It's interesting that Green is choosing to pair Edler with Myers considering their deployment and usage were complete mirror opposites last season.
Myers:
DZS%: 26.61 lowest on his team
Played against 1st line forwards ~24% of the time, 5th highest on the Jets and in the ~25th percentile among all NHL dmen
Edler:
DZS%: 38.94 second highest on the team behind Tanev
Played against 1st line forwards ~52% of the time, highest on the canucks and in the ~99th percentile among all NHL dmen
Myers:
DZS%: 26.61 lowest on his team
Played against 1st line forwards ~24% of the time, 5th highest on the Jets and in the ~25th percentile among all NHL dmen
Edler:
DZS%: 38.94 second highest on the team behind Tanev
Played against 1st line forwards ~52% of the time, highest on the canucks and in the ~99th percentile among all NHL dmen
It's curious and my opinion of Edler has always been that his play drops when his partner has, I guess, erratic components to his game. Edler tends to try to overcompensate. Tanev doesn't have that nature. Even Stecher doesn't. Edler works well with them. Myers seems more unpredictable and I wonder how that affects Edler.
Well and of course I very much have my doubts Myers can handle such deployment. I suspect it will be a short lived experiment and then it will go back to Edler-Tanev or Edler-Stecher. Wouldn't be shocked to se the Myers-Hughes pairing stay together so they can be deployed with 70+% offensive zone starts with the Pettersson line.
Myers and Edler played 9 games on the same team in Kelowna, and given that Edler was the team's #1 and Myers was a 15 y/o rookie getting 3rd pairing minutes, they probably didn't play more than a couple shifts together.
Must have been incredible.
Honestly, this narrative that they're 'reuniting junior teammates Myers and Edler' that I've seen here several times now is just ... strange. They barely overlapped and Myers was just a raw rookie getting spotted very limited minutes at that point.
Well I'm certainly not advancing that narrative. But more seriously though, Edler has partnered with Tanev and Stecher in the past. He hasn't partnered with Myers. Might as well try the pairing. Given what Benn said about Stecher, I guess each pairing will have a guy who is expected to play a more offensive role?
sting101
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What a dismissive post. No data not facts....uh i watched a bunch of the Sabres when they were the worst roster in the entire NHL and it was Tyler Myers fault.
Weak sauce man
You're hoping for the best with Myers, but the underlying numbers in Winterpeg on a much better team scream a 4-5 bubble guy on the blueline.
But there was really no help for it this off-season. Apparently Jimbo was a scout for the Sabres when they drafted Myers, and then when he won the Calder in his rookie season. He was just fated to end up in VanCity.
But there was really no help for it this off-season. Apparently Jimbo was a scout for the Sabres when they drafted Myers, and then when he won the Calder in his rookie season. He was just fated to end up in VanCity.
Askel
By the way Benning should be fired.
Ah great argument from the "I only count his good seasons, that's when he had great Corsi" guy. There is like a hundred posts in this thread showing with stats why Myers isn't anything special. You cherrypicked stats ,own it FFS. Im done with this crap.
Myers played lower-leverage minutes his first few years and managed to tread water defensively, but 2013-2015 after other guys were moved he was put into a high-leverage shutdown role and struggled horribly. Yes, those teams couldn't score but they were bottom-5 in the NHL defensively despite solid goaltending (Ryan Miller) and Myers' struggles were a huge part of that.
sting101
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No he played on a team that was the worst by far in the NHL and the fact that you @MS keep saying this is completely unfair to Tyler Myers and really should be retracted. Using 2013-15 as data for your argument is pretty bad analysis.
2013/14 top9 = Ennis Hodgson Stafford Moulson Girgensons Leino Foligno Larsson Ott.....just putrid. 52pts and 157goals worst in the NHL by 14pts and by almost 40goals of offense. Myers played 62 games
2014/15 top9 F = Ennis Hodgson Stafford Moulson Girgensons Gionta M.Foligno Larsson C.Stewart.....this lineup is again absolute garbage. Every single one was playing above their ability except maybe Foligno. Last place overall with 54 pts and scored a laughable 161 goals. Myers played 47 games and the Sabres were tanking for McDavid. We all remember Murray going off after the Oilrers got Connor.
Not a hill i would die on. Like i said why not just use Winnipeg numbers? pretty much a vet and a decent team to analyse his numbers on.
This cratered in high leverage shut down minutes during that time period is BS and you know it.
I think you may have not fully understood what i was arguing in the first place? So let me if you care explain. Basically a statement was made that during the 2013-15/16 period he played high leverage shut down minutes and cratered. I refuted that with why would someone use data derived from a period in which the Sabres had by far the worst lineup in the entire NHL ( it wasn't really even close) I argued that if you remove the few seasons in question that you had a player that had performed just below 50% 5v5 corsi had been a 30-35pt producer and an overall plus grade in terms of 5v5 play.
I also offered the Jets as the team to use as that would represent much more clearly data wise what Myers is/was. Only when the argument leaned on these seasons as some kind of indicator (which i believe to be unfair) did i start cherry picking seasons as you say just like the poster who made this claim had done.
I wouldn't trot out stats and statements regarding Tanev and Edler during this era as a Flame fan and say. Oh yes Tanev is absolutely awful just look at his numbers during that 2016-2018 period where he wasn't good at anything 48% corsi, no offense, injured all the time minus 7, Cratering in his role. Like how absurd would that sound to you knowing that tanev is a stud but has struggled mostly due to injuries and a bad team in fron of him. And by bad were comparing 52 and 54pt teams that scored 154 and 161 goals vs 69 and 73pts and 182goals and 218 goals. The Sabres were next levels of bad and you guys are saying i'm cherry picking?
2013/14 top9 = Ennis Hodgson Stafford Moulson Girgensons Leino Foligno Larsson Ott.....just putrid. 52pts and 157goals worst in the NHL by 14pts and by almost 40goals of offense. Myers played 62 games
2014/15 top9 F = Ennis Hodgson Stafford Moulson Girgensons Gionta M.Foligno Larsson C.Stewart.....this lineup is again absolute garbage. Every single one was playing above their ability except maybe Foligno. Last place overall with 54 pts and scored a laughable 161 goals. Myers played 47 games and the Sabres were tanking for McDavid. We all remember Murray going off after the Oilrers got Connor.
Not a hill i would die on. Like i said why not just use Winnipeg numbers? pretty much a vet and a decent team to analyse his numbers on.
This cratered in high leverage shut down minutes during that time period is BS and you know it.
I think you may have not fully understood what i was arguing in the first place? So let me if you care explain. Basically a statement was made that during the 2013-15/16 period he played high leverage shut down minutes and cratered. I refuted that with why would someone use data derived from a period in which the Sabres had by far the worst lineup in the entire NHL ( it wasn't really even close) I argued that if you remove the few seasons in question that you had a player that had performed just below 50% 5v5 corsi had been a 30-35pt producer and an overall plus grade in terms of 5v5 play.
I also offered the Jets as the team to use as that would represent much more clearly data wise what Myers is/was. Only when the argument leaned on these seasons as some kind of indicator (which i believe to be unfair) did i start cherry picking seasons as you say just like the poster who made this claim had done.
I wouldn't trot out stats and statements regarding Tanev and Edler during this era as a Flame fan and say. Oh yes Tanev is absolutely awful just look at his numbers during that 2016-2018 period where he wasn't good at anything 48% corsi, no offense, injured all the time minus 7, Cratering in his role. Like how absurd would that sound to you knowing that tanev is a stud but has struggled mostly due to injuries and a bad team in fron of him. And by bad were comparing 52 and 54pt teams that scored 154 and 161 goals vs 69 and 73pts and 182goals and 218 goals. The Sabres were next levels of bad and you guys are saying i'm cherry picking?
I'm fully aware that those teams absolutely sucked and couldn't score goals. Nobody is arguing this. Nobody is saying that Myers' offensive numbers weren't hurt by this either.
The problem is that - despite solid goaltending - they were a bottom-5 defensive team in the NHL. Myers was tasked with being a high-leverage guy on those teams and was getting shredded, and his inability to win or saw off hard matchups was a big part of why those teams were so bad defensively.
When Myers went to Winnipeg, he went back to the same sort of middle-pairing 52% zone start minutes he was getting to start his career in Buffalo, and he rebounded.
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