Confirmed with Link: Canucks sign Brock Boeser to 3 year deal worth 5.875 million annually. | #607

[Megaterio Llamas]

He's the first coach we have ever had that utterly refuses to call out an opposing player for flagrantly violating the rules and injuring one of his players, including his star players. It's nearly always a hockey play with him.

And in that one single incidence when he didn't call it a hockey play, when the act was so far beyond the pale of what is acceptable that he'd have been laughed at if he had, when his young franchise center was fireman's carried, crotch lifted and spiked head first onto the ice by Mike Matheson, it was "I haven't seen the play." Hours afterward.

 

[DFAC]

At least AV always had his players backs... this is just embarrassing really

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Yeah now that I've caught up... Green is definitely starting to lose my support here.

I've disagreed with treatment of certain players with him (Mainly Loui Eriksson and Goldobin) but this shit is starting to get in to unacceptable territory.

 

[Grub]

Why am I not surprised.

 

[Jyrki21]

It was obviously not a hockey play and should be punished severely.

But as usual I'm incredulous at the inevitable calls for "moar tuffness" and revenge when 100+ years of pro hockey is yet to turn up evidence that that approach works. We heard it with Gudbranson, we heard it with Myers. Professional hockey players don't get deterred, particularly when the action is reckless rather than planned.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Don't care if it deters or not, it shows we have a push back culture and not a pushover culture. I, for one, would have loved to see someone go full Odjick on the guy.

 

[Jack Burton]

He's the first coach we have ever had that utterly refuses to call out an opposing player for flagrantly violating the rules and injuring one of his players, including his star players. It's nearly always a hockey play with him.

And in that one single incidence when he didn't call it a hockey play, when the act was so far beyond the pale of what is acceptable that he'd have been laughed at if he had, when his young franchise center was fireman's carried, crotch lifted and spiked head first onto the ice by Mike Matheson, it was "I haven't seen the play." Hours afterward.

I think it's coming straight from the top.

Did you or anyone else notice that after the game, Green and the players were late to the press conference?

It was like someone called down to them and warned them about the pending sh*t storm that was about to hit. They all got together, threw Bo to the wolves and we got to hear that *scripted* response!

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

I think it's coming straight from the top.

Did you or anyone else notice that after the game, Green and the players were late to the press conference?

It was like someone called down to them and warned them about the pending sh*t storm that was about to hit. They all got together, threw Bo to the wolves and we got to hear that *scripted* response!

Smart move
Complaint or commenting about nhl player safety publicly is never a good idea. They fill remember it and pick on us one day

 

[yvrtojfk]

Unbelievable. Poor kid can’t catch a break.

 

[MS]

There are situations that merit a response and ones that don't.

I was choked about the Matheson situation as that was CLEARLY not a hockey play and and clearly merited a heavy response.

Conversely, the situation with Kotkaniemi in Montreal was just a nothing play with no intent where two guys fell awkwardly.

In this case, you have one of the cleanest players in the NHL who is friends with several guys on this team (likely including Boeser considering how close both are to Horvat) who went to throw a hit and got his angles wrong. Given Tierney's track record (not a single infraction in his nearly 400-game career for any sort of illegal hit) this was pretty clearly a hockey play and an accident. And the guys on the ice know that.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I think it's coming straight from the top.

Did you or anyone else notice that after the game, Green and the players were late to the press conference?

It was like someone called down to them and warned them about the pending sh*t storm that was about to hit. They all got together, threw Bo to the wolves and we got to hear that *scripted* response!

i've never played professional sports but i wonder whether there will come a time when it's time for petey, boes, and whomever else to sign longterm deals or qualify to UFA status and they'll wonder why the f they'd commit to an organization that has never stood up for them.

regardless of where the directive is coming from, ownership or management or coaching staff or just a bunch of teammates who dgaf, i'd look at the taxes and the travel and the rain and the media and wonder what i'd be getting in return for all of that.

 

[Hockeyphysio]

again the Canucks Medical staff lets us down.... How are they still around?

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

 

[Bleach Clean]

There are situations that merit a response and ones that don't.

I was choked about the Matheson situation as that was CLEARLY not a hockey play and and clearly merited a heavy response.

Conversely, the situation with Kotkaniemi in Montreal was just a nothing play with no intent where two guys fell awkwardly.

In this case, you have one of the cleanest players in the NHL who is friends with several guys on this team (likely including Boeser considering how close both are to Horvat) who went to throw a hit and got his angles wrong. Given Tierney's track record (not a single infraction in his nearly 400-game career for any sort of illegal hit) this was pretty clearly a hockey play and an accident. And the guys on the ice know that.

What you say is fair, but retribution was never about fairness. Once you understand that, the rest resolves itself.

Did this incident deserve a response? Yes. Not because it was earned, not because We judge it to be fair or unfair, but because there is a question at all after the hit. That’s enough. That’s all that was ever needed.

When the NHL becomes a perfect meritocracy, where every action receives an equal and appropriate reaction, then I’ll believe that judging the absolute fairness of a play has merit in deciding the appropriate retribution. Until such time... Yeah, go after ‘em.

 

[Jyrki21]

In this case, you have one of the cleanest players in the NHL who is friends with several guys on this team (likely including Boeser considering how close both are to Horvat) who went to throw a hit and got his angles wrong. Given Tierney's track record (not a single infraction in his nearly 400-game career for any sort of illegal hit) this was pretty clearly a hockey play and an accident. And the guys on the ice know that.

I'm sure the result wasn't intentional (one of my constant refrains is that you can't deter things that a player never intended to do), but the play was still reckless in the sense that it was a very high risk situation and – in a preseason game especially – you want a guy to exercise better judgment when the stakes are that high. And recklessness can be deterred to a certain extent through suspensions/fines (as opposed to stupid hockey fights that do absolutely nothing) that make people think twice in all situations, but you'll still never deter unintended actions.

When I say it "wasn't" a hockey play, I suppose I mean it's something I don't see as "part of the game" or intrinsic to the flow of play, but I agree with you that he probably thought he was making a normal play at the time he began his movement.

 

[MS]

What you say is fair, but retribution was never about fairness. Once you understand that, the rest resolves itself.

Did this incident deserve a response? Yes. Not because it was earned, not because We judge it to be fair or unfair, but because there is a question at all after the hit. That’s enough. That’s all that was ever needed.

When the NHL becomes a perfect meritocracy, where every action receives an equal and appropriate reaction, then I’ll believe that judging the absolute fairness of a play has merit in deciding the appropriate retribution. Until such time... Yeah, go after ‘em.

I get what you're saying and I'm a big believer in team toughness.

But this just wasn't going to be the place for it, and you were never going to see guys losing their minds when Horvat's super-clean best friend got his angles wrong on a hit near the boards in a preseason game, and Boeser didn't even appear to be injured at the time.

Like, Tierney was hanging out with all of these guys at Horvat's wedding in the summer. It's a pretty special case here.

And if Boeser had been fine (as it appeared during the game), this entire thing would have already been forgotten. This is anger in retrospect through a lens where we now know Boeser is hurt.

I'm sure the result wasn't intentional (one of my constant refrains is that you can't deter things that a player never intended to do), but the play was still reckless in the sense that it was a very high risk situation and – in a preseason game especially – you want a guy to exercise better judgment when the stakes are that high. And recklessness can be deterred to a certain extent through suspensions/fines (as opposed to stupid hockey fights that do absolutely nothing) that make people think twice in all situations, but you'll still never deter unintended actions.

When I say it "wasn't" a hockey play, I suppose I mean it's something I don't see as "part of the game" or intrinsic to the flow of play, but I agree with you that he probably thought he was making a normal play at the time he began his movement.

When I say it's a hockey play, I'm saying that Tierney was attempting a hockey play that went wrong and clearly wasn't doing anything malicious or intentionally against the rules. Sometimes you go to throw a hit and get it wrong. It was a bit reckless and deserved a penalty but nothing more.

If a player with a super-clean reputation (like Boeser) threw that hit on Chabot for Ottawa and Chabot wasn't obviously hurt and continued in the game, we'd all be defending Boeser and his intentions, and would be pretty ticked if Ottawa's goon was going after Boeser.

 

[sting101]

Kinda ironic that posters would suggest that a teammate have to potentially get knocked out in an instigated assault to protect Boesers from getting knocked out by a hockey play.

 

[I am toxic]

Hitting from behind into the boards is no longer a hockey play, and hasn't been for a long time.

 

[MS]

Hitting from behind into the boards is no longer a hockey play, and hasn't been for a long time.

It was a clean player trying to make a hockey play who got his angles wrong with a bad result.

Like, I get that people are unhappy that Boeser is hurt. But if people are expecting guys to go postal when Horvat's squeaky-clean best friend throws a slightly bad hit in a preseason game where Boeser didn't even appear to be hurt at the time, their expectations are completely out-of-whack.

 

[CherryToke]

I'm not sold that Tierney being a "good guy" had anything to do with the lack of response. Are they friends with Matheson too? OR is he just another "good guy"?

More likely that this will be the response no matter who the culprit is, with Green in charge.

 

[I am toxic]

It was a clean player trying to make a hockey play who got his angles wrong with a bad result.

Like, I get that people are unhappy that Boeser is hurt. But if people are expecting guys to go postal when Horvat's squeaky-clean best friend throws a slightly bad hit in a preseason game where Boeser didn't even appear to be hurt at the time, their expectations are completely out-of-whack.

I agree it was a clean player.

He didn't get his angles wrong, he hit Boeser exactly where he intended. From behind. It is not a hockey play, and has not been for decades now.

No one is expecting guys to go postal. I can't speak for others, but what I am expecting is this:

- preventative: coaching staff teach our players to protect themselves first, the puck second, to an acceptable level of risk (injury) vs. reward (puck control); Gretzky is an excellent case study in how this is done
- preventative: coaching staff communicate verbally in advance and in no uncertain terms to our team and to other teams that taking liberties with our star players will cost the other team more;
- preventative: coaching staff, based on scouting of other teams, determine likely matchups in games, and if you see a matchup you don't like against your vulnerable players, either change your lineup if you have last change, or change your positioning on the ice
- preventative: players, if you already know a player from another team's role is to rattle your star player(s), have your stronger players communicate to them after whistles/in scrums; ramp it up in response to what they are doing to your star player(s)
- preventative: players, communicate to teammates when they are about to get hit, and get open to receive passes
- preventative: players play clean, don't cheapshot other team's players; if physical play is needed, do it cleanly


- mitigate: coaching staff teach our players how to absorb a dirty hit, keeping in mind that linear momentum (the hit) is best absorbed by converting it into angular momentum (spinning), and how to yardsale

- respond: players, after a star player has taken a dirty hit, focus on legally bodychecking other team's star players as hard and as often as possible; two points are meaningless in the grand scheme of things compared to losing a star player for extended periods of time (particularly for a team that is not contending); gives credence to the second preventative item

- respond: coaching staff, call a spade a spade. A hit from behind is a dirty play that, intentional or not has no place in the game. Call it out. A player is responsible for their stick (other than wind-up and follow-through on a shot), they are even more responsible for "getting their angles wrong."

Hitting first/thinking second is a mentality. Our team needs to change other teams' mentality.

 

[Melvin]

I'd literally rather remove hitting from the game than have this annoying discussion 50 times every year when a good player gets touched.

 

[MS]

I agree it was a clean player.

He didn't get his angles wrong, he hit Boeser exactly where he intended. From behind. It is not a hockey play, and has not been for decades now.

No one is expecting guys to go postal. I can't speak for others, but what I am expecting is this:

- preventative: coaching staff teach our players to protect themselves first, the puck second, to an acceptable level of risk (injury) vs. reward (puck control); Gretzky is an excellent case study in how this is done
- preventative: coaching staff communicate verbally in advance and in no uncertain terms to our team and to other teams that taking liberties with our star players will cost the other team more;
- preventative: coaching staff, based on scouting of other teams, determine likely matchups in games, and if you see a matchup you don't like against your vulnerable players, either change your lineup if you have last change, or change your positioning on the ice
- preventative: players, if you already know a player from another team's role is to rattle your star player(s), have your stronger players communicate to them after whistles/in scrums; ramp it up in response to what they are doing to your star player(s)
- preventative: players, communicate to teammates when they are about to get hit, and get open to receive passes
- preventative: players play clean, don't cheapshot other team's players; if physical play is needed, do it cleanly


- mitigate: coaching staff teach our players how to absorb a dirty hit, keeping in mind that linear momentum (the hit) is best absorbed by converting it into angular momentum (spinning), and how to yardsale

- respond: players, after a star player has taken a dirty hit, focus on legally bodychecking other team's star players as hard and as often as possible; two points are meaningless in the grand scheme of things compared to losing a star player for extended periods of time (particularly for a team that is not contending); gives credence to the second preventative item

- respond: coaching staff, call a spade a spade. A hit from behind is a dirty play that, intentional or not has no place in the game. Call it out. A player is responsible for their stick (other than wind-up and follow-through on a shot), they are even more responsible for "getting their angles wrong."

Hitting first/thinking second is a mentality. Our team needs to change other teams' mentality.

I don't particularly disagree with most of this, and as I said I've had issues with reponses in the past, and in a general sense yes this has needed to be improved in the past. But we honestly have no idea what the coaches are doing here so I don't feel like I can really comment as to whether there's a breakdown coming from that end.

This is not one of those times. There was just no way, ever, there was going to be a response to a slightly bad hit from a clean player (who, again, would have been having beers with these guys at Horvat's wedding and is probably considered a friend) when Boeser didn't even appear to be injured at the time. If this was a Borowiecki and Boeser was knocked out, I'd be on board with you. But that's not what happened and the play did not appear significant at the time.

And I highly doubt that he intended to throw that hit from behind. One of my pet peeves is when people act like all bad hits are maliciously intentional. When you're playing, these plays happen in an instant - you're skating hard, see a target present itself, and try to catch a piece of that target all in a half-second. Get your angles right and it's a great legal hit. Get your angles wrong or guess wrong on their movement, and you're catching a knee or getting behind a shoulder instead of in front or on the side. And you could see from Tierney's slumped shoulders immediately after the hit that this was not what he was intending.

 

[CherryToke]

What a load of crap MS. Leaving this thread before I die of cringe.

 

[MS]

What a load of crap MS. Leaving this thread before I die of cringe.

No, it isn't.

These are human beings. They aren't going to be going after one of the cleanest players in the league, who is a close personal friend of Horvat, after a slightly bad play where Boeser didn't even appear to be hurt.

Your expectations here are completely out-of-whack with reality and what actually happened in the incident.

Again, if a guy like Borowiecki took a run at Boeser and obviously injured him - send the cavalry! But this wasn't that sort of play.