Confirmed with Link: Canucks re-sign Troy Stecher - 2 years, 2.325 AAV - avoiding arbitration.

[Tables of Stats]

I understand the arbitration rights, but like, what kind of arbitrator is going to award an 11-point defenceman more than ~1.75MM. Arbitrators do overweigh point production and use comparables and it'd be interesting to see comparables for young-ish D-men putting up ~10-15 points.

Except that he's a 20 point defenseman when he gets PP time and there's no way his agent doesn't make that clear in arbitration.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Except that he's a 20 point defenseman when he gets PP time and there's no way his agent doesn't make that clear in arbitration.

In Travis Green's world that's Pouliot's power play time.

 

[TruGr1t]

I understand the arbitration rights, but like, what kind of arbitrator is going to award an 11-point defenceman more than ~1.75MM. Arbitrators do overweigh point production and use comparables and it'd be interesting to see comparables for young-ish D-men putting up ~10-15 points.

There's no way Stetcher gets this kind of reward in arbitration. I'd bet you're right and he gets rewarded under ~$2M AAV. This contract is because our management is terrible at negotiating and we have Hutton making $2.8M to be a healthy scratch and Del Zotto making $3M to be an absolute tire fire.

This is our management strategy. Employ below average players at above average rates.

 

[member 290103]

If I had to bet, I’d say he is an Oilers fan. I’m always impressed by the level of hate some people can show for another team. I HATE the Leafs but I’m far too lazy to visit their forums

Yes, or a Flames fan. He was around during 2011, I wonder......did he post negatively then too? That would be telling. I like to have fun with the opposing fans of other teams on the main board, but creating a fake persona and infiltrating one of their forums is pretty over the top.

 

[krutovsdonut]

I understand the arbitration rights, but like, what kind of arbitrator is going to award an 11-point defenceman more than ~1.75MM. Arbitrators do overweigh point production and use comparables and it'd be interesting to see comparables for young-ish D-men putting up ~10-15 points.

comparable analysis is what we need to judge this deal.

my sense is that rfa arbitration rights can get a middling young player more money by compromise than they could get as a ufa. you look at the number of filings and the deals being made and it seems like there must be enough comparables out there to make teams sweat.

 

[Kryten]

comparable analysis is what we need to judge this deal.

my sense is that rfa arbitration rights can get a middling young player more money by compromise than they could get as a ufa. you look at the number of filings and the deals being made and it seems like there must be enough comparables out there to make teams sweat.

Like Hutton and Stecher

 

[Melvin]

Yes, or a Flames fan. He was around during 2011, I wonder......did he post negatively then too? That would be telling. I like to have fun with the opposing fans of other teams on the main board, but creating a fake persona and infiltrating one of their forums is pretty over the top.

He posted the same way in 2011. I was looking through older threads before and noticed it.

 

[StreetHawk]

I understand the arbitration rights, but like, what kind of arbitrator is going to award an 11-point defenceman more than ~1.75MM. Arbitrators do overweigh point production and use comparables and it'd be interesting to see comparables for young-ish D-men putting up ~10-15 points.

I’m sure nhl teams have a book on the arbitrators, no different than mlb teams have for umpires.

If they could confidently believe that they could get stecher for $1.75 I’m sure they go to arbitration. They opted not to.

They’re not competing with other teams for stecher services. Like hey have been for al of the overpays from ufa. They bought high on Hutton after a strong rookie year and he regressed.

They are simply presenting a case for their numbers to an arbitrator. That person would make the final. Because the nhl arbitration process is setup where the arbitrator can pick the salary, teams don’t really know where it will land. Generally going to be a range of around $400K.

Some jets fans appear to be a bit surprised at the $5.5 at trouba got. They actually thought he would land under $5 million. Everyone has their number for a player. I’d actually prefer if the Ngo adopt d the mlb style where the arbitrator picks one sides number. Force both sides to be reasonable.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

He posted the same way in 2011. I was looking through older threads before and noticed it.

Who are we talking about here @timbermen ?

He posts on the music thread in the entertainment subforum. He is obviously from Vancouver. Or from BC at least. Good contributor to that thread too.

 

[Melvin]

Who are we talking about here @timbermen ?

He posts on the music thread in the entertainment subforum. He is obviously from Vancouver. Or from BC at least. Good contributor to that thread too.

I thought we were talking about Johnny Canucker. My bad if not.

 

[me2]

Except that he's a 20 point defenseman when he gets PP time and there's no way his agent doesn't make that clear in arbitration.

And the canucks make it clear he lost his PP spot to superior PP players, that kills off the 20 point PP argument.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

I thought we were talking about Johnny Canucker. My bad if not.

I don't know really. I just guessed it was Timberman because his posts do have some bite to them. I don't really recognize the other guy. At my age the bland stuff doesn't even register with me anymore.

 

[Hit the post]

Except that he's a 20 point defenseman when he gets PP time and there's no way his agent doesn't make that clear in arbitration.

Even if you give him the same number of power play points as his rookie season (the only other season he has in the NHL) he still won't hit 20 points. Hopefully he gets that chance again (power play time) this upcoming season.

 

[iceburg]

During this contract does Stecher solidify himself as a top 4 on any team or just on this team?

 

[Tables of Stats]

And the canucks make it clear he lost his PP spot to superior PP players, that kills off the 20 point PP argument.

It's tough to argue that point effectively when Pouliot never had more than 4 PPP in any season before he came here while Stecher had 8 PPP in his rookie season. It gets even worse when you look at how bad MDZ was with 5 points with no season better than Stecher's rookie PPP rate since the 11-12 season. Both Hutton and Stecher suffered badly due to having their PP time taken away for players who have never been known for their prolific PP scoring rates.

Even if you give him the same number of power play points as his rookie season (the only other season he has in the NHL) he still won't hit 20 points. Hopefully he gets that chance again (power play time) this upcoming season.

He hits 18 points, which is pretty close to 20, all while improving his advanced stats and posting a better +/-. It's hard to argue that he's really an 11 point player when evidence suggests he's much closer to a 20 point player when given PP time. Stecher also played on our PK this past season logging 1:31 SH TOI/GP this past season compared to 0:04 in his rookie year.

It's hard to argue that Stecher didn't take a step forward this past season when you actually look at what he did.

 

[timbermen]

Im sad that timber has left, his shenanigans were cheeky and fun. Hindustans shenanigans are cruel and tragic.

Anyways congrats to Stecher and he should pick up Huttons bar tab for the entire year

I'm back guys, and JB's coming through

 

[me2]

It's tough to argue that point effectively when Pouliot never had more than 4 PPP in any season before he came here while Stecher had 8 PPP in his rookie season. It gets even worse when you look at how bad MDZ was with 5 points with no season better than Stecher's rookie PPP rate since the 11-12 season. Both Hutton and Stecher suffered badly due to having their PP time taken away for players who have never been known for their prolific PP scoring rates.




He hits 18 points, which is pretty close to 20, all while improving his advanced stats and posting a better +/-. It's hard to argue that he's really an 11 point player when evidence suggests he's much closer to a 20 point player when given PP time. Stecher also played on our PK this past season logging 1:31 SH TOI/GP this past season compared to 0:04 in his rookie year.

It's hard to argue that Stecher didn't take a step forward this past season when you actually look at what he did.

And yet Benning and his crew viewed them as better options than Stecher who lost his place to them.

Secondly, acting like a small, defensively struggling, "20 point" offensive Dman is hard to get is nuts. Yannik Weber types aren't expensive. Pouliot had twice as many points if you want to run on points, $1.1m. Ryan Pulock signed for $2.0m, 32 points in 68 games, he's better all around.

 

[M2Beezy]

Im sad that timber has left, his shenanigans were cheeky and fun. Hindustans shenanigans are cruel and tragic.

Anyways congrats to Stecher and he should pick up Huttons bar tab for the entire year

Super Troopers!!! Farva

Classic movie, one of the best

 

[Tables of Stats]

And yet Benning and his crew viewed them as better options than Stecher who lost his place to them.

Secondly, acting like a small, defensively struggling, "20 point" offensive Dman is hard to get is nuts. Yannik Weber types aren't expensive. Pouliot had twice as many points if you want to run on points, $1.1m. Ryan Pulock signed for $2.0m, 32 points in 68 games, he's better all around.

Are you really going to defend playing MDZ and Pouliot over Stecher and Hutton using our current management and coaching staff as your source of authority while arguing that this same team overpaid to resign him? Bold move... Illogical but bold none-the-less...

Defensively struggling you say, let's see how he ranked league-wide in defensive stats. Stecher threw 1.6 hits per game, which is in the top half, nearly top third, for defensemen who played more than 50 games last season. His shot blocking was in the bottom 25% of defensemen at 1.1 blocks per game. His giveaways were top 15% with only 27, while his takeaways were in the top 45% of the league at 22. His total shots were below average in the top 55% at 96, but this is without PP time.

None of these things are even including the much-debated advanced analytics where he also had a good showing. The fact is, Stecher is a fairly average middle pairing defenseman who should be good for around 20 points each season if given some PP time. If he keeps getting better we could see him end up as a 25-30 point two-way defender who's physical beyond what his size might suggest.

How is that not worth $2.35 million on a two-year deal?

 

[y2kcanucks]

With this the Canucks are one of only two teams that have 6 defensemen making $2M per year or more (along with Pittsburgh). Yikes.

 

[DonnyNucker]

I thought we were talking about Johnny Canucker. My bad if not.

Everyone was talking about Johnny Canucker lol not sure what the other dude is referring to

 

[Tables of Stats]

With this the Canucks are one of only two teams that have 6 defensemen making $2M per year or more (along with Pittsburgh). Yikes.

Yeah, that is bad. I don't think Stetcher or his current deal are terrible but given who we're carrying our D as a whole doesn't look great. Ditch MDZ and Gudz for whatever you can get and at least cap wise we look instantly better.

Given that we're going to suck anyway we could replace them with an unsigned vet or two on one year deals just in case one of the kids aren't ready.

 

[racerjoe]

Yeah, that is bad. I don't think Stetcher or his current deal are terrible but given who we're carrying our D as a whole doesn't look great. Ditch MDZ and Gudz for whatever you can get and at least cap wise we look instantly better.

Given that we're going to suck anyway we could replace them with an unsigned vet or two on one year deals just in case one of the kids aren't ready.

Honestly if we just ditched Guds and MDZ and hope Joulevi or Hughes is ready we are probably better.

Edler Stetcher
Hutton Tanev
Joulevi/Hughes Biega
Pouliot

That is sad... in both how bad that looks and the fact it is still better than what we will run with.

 

[Tables of Stats]

Honestly if we just ditched Guds and MDZ and hope Joulevi or Hughes is ready we are probably better.

Edler Stetcher
Hutton Tanev
Joulevi/Hughes Biega
Pouliot

That is sad... in both how bad that looks and the fact it is still better than what we will run with.

True. I'd still bring back Hamuis on a one year deal if he's willing to come back for cheap, let him retire a Canuck if that suits him.

EDIT: Scratch Hamuis, looks like he signed with the Preds 2 years @ 1.25 per. You know, the sort of deal we should be looking to sign guys for.

 

[Shareefruck]

Yeah let’s see if message boards even exist in a decade when this team is “good”

Why are you upset that I think it’s ridiculous that we are the only team (outside of Pittsburgh) where every defensman makes over 2M. We are the NHL laughing stock and pay how much for our D??? You think that’s normal?

Why do you always post your reply above the quote that you're replying to? It's so disorienting.