Canucks owner looking to bring NBA back to Vancouver

Ogopogo*

Guest
So Canada could not support other pro sports, is that what you are saying?


.

Outside of Toronto, yes, that is what I am saying. The NBA, MLB and NFL would not work in Canada with the exception of Toronto because of the population there.

There are not enough Canadians passionate enough about the other sports to make it work financially. You need a significant number of people who will pour money into those things and, with Canadians primarily spending their sporting dollars on hockey, there isn't much left over for the other stuff.
 
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OG6ix

Registered User
Apr 11, 2006
4,453
1,350
Toronto
Outside of Toronto, yes, that is what I am saying. The NBA, MLB and NFL would not work in Canada with the exception of Toronto because of the population there.

There are not enough Canadians passionate enough about the other sports to make it work financially. You need a significant number of people who will pour money into those things and, with Canadians primarily spending their sporting dollars on hockey, there isn't much left over for the other stuff.

Arthur Griffiths former owner of the grizzlies thinks it will work.. and he owned a team not Ogpogo on HF boards.

Also he said that the Canucks at one point were losing more money than the grizzlies when he owned both.

http://www.fan590.com/ondemand/media.jsp?content=20110217_152457_13060
 

Ogopogo*

Guest
Arthur Griffiths former owner of the grizzlies thinks it will work.. and he owned a team not Ogpogo on HF boards.

Also he said that the Canucks at one point were losing more money than the grizzlies when he owned both. http://www.fan590.com/ondemand/media.jsp?content=20110217_152457_13060

Further evidence both cannot survive in Vancouver.

Arthur thought it could work but showed that it actually couldn't work, thus the team is gone and Griffiths owns neither franchise.
 
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OG6ix

Registered User
Apr 11, 2006
4,453
1,350
Toronto
Further evidence both cannot survive in Vancouver.

Arthur thought it could work but showed that it actually couldn't work, thus the team is gone and Griffiths owns neither franchise.

Did you even listen to the link? :facepalm:
 

Ogopogo*

Guest
Did you even listen to the link? :facepalm:

What would the link tell me that I really need to know?

The Grizzlies have left town and Griffiths owns neither. If he thinks both can survive in Vancouver, he has a strange way of proving it.

Right now, Arthur Griffiths owns the same number of pro sports teams that I do.
 
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OG6ix

Registered User
Apr 11, 2006
4,453
1,350
Toronto
What would the link tell me that I really need to know?

The Grizzlies have left town and Griffiths owns neither. If he thinks both can survive in Vancouver, he has a strange way of proving it.

Right ignorance.. Where do you reside mr ogopogo? Vancouver?
 

Kirikanoir

Registered User
Dec 16, 2010
1,576
40
Ever seen a Thrashers crowd in Atlanta? It was kinda like that.

If you can't put a decent crowd together when the defending champions are in town with David Robinson and Tim Duncan, you aren't a basketball town.

1998-99 San Antonio Spurs at Vancouver 2 games

19,193
18,448

1999-00 San Antonio Spurs at Vancouver 2 games

14,403
14,206


highest attendance

1st. 1995-96 704,489 17,183 Vancouver
2nd. 2004-05 691,362 16,862 Memphis
3rd. 1998-99 417,966 16,719 Vancouver (lockout)
4th. 1996-97 679,422 16,571 Vancouver
5th. 1997-98 660,457 16,109 Vancouver
6th. 2005-06 647,533 15,793 Memphis
7th. 2003-04 622,723 15,188 Memphis
8th. 2002-03 614,301 14,983 Memphis
9th. 2006-07 600,836 14,654 Memphis
10th. 2001-02 591,030 14,415 Memphis
11th. 1999-00 569,864 13,899 Vancouver
12th. 2000-01 563,218 13,737 Vancouver
13th. 2009-10 552,914 13,485 Memphis
14th. 2007-08 523,578 12,770 Memphis
15th 2008-09 509,806 12,745 Memphis

Well apparently Vancouver is more a basketball town than where they were moved to. In fact Vancouver Grizzlies attendance was remarkably strong when you realize just how bad the home team was in their six year history in Vancouver. Only in the last two year after a. An NBA lockout and b. it was clear the team was going to be moved did attendance start to slip.

2000-01 Vancouver Grizzlies 23-59
1999-00 Vancouver Grizzlies 22-60
1998-99 Vancouver Grizzlies 8-42
1997-98 Vancouver Grizzlies 19-63
1996-97 Vancouver Grizzlies 14-68
1995-96 Vancouver Grizzlies 15-67

101-359 record in six years

Fan support was not an issue in their time in Vancouver. It was the league that let Vancouver down, not the other way around.
 
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Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
36,763
3,211
Where do you reside Mr. Ogopogo? Vancouver?

Well, in all fairness, he's obviously familiar with our resident "Nessie" swimming the depths of Lake Okanagan; and though I disagree with Griffiths' and his opinion that the NBA wouldnt work in Vancouver, personally, Im completely ambivalent about it. As I stated earlier, from a business perspective it makes perfect sense, getting back to the original vision that wee Arthur had in the early 90's. Unfortunately, his eye's didnt match his grasp. and if he chooses to be revisionist in declaring the markets unsuitability, well, I guess maybe his ego's getting in the way & may still be bruised. :p:
 

blueandgoldguy

Registered User
Oct 8, 2010
5,239
2,467
Greg's River Heights
Exactly. The league watch each other for fan support. If the response is like this for basketball, what do you think Selig is thinking?

Probably not thinking much. After all, he shipped the Expos to Washington where the Capitals and Wizards (minus Jordan years) were drawing mediocre numbers and..............surprise! the Nationals have been drawing crappy numbers since their arrival.
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
36,763
3,211
Just throwing out an idea, we all know the rule of supply and demand. In order to drive up demand in the Vancouver Market would it be feasable to name a Basketball team the Western Canada Cougars or something and have 30 "home" games in Vancouver, and 5 each in Edmonton and Calgary and maybe one In winnipeg (not sure if that adds up to a full set of home games. You could also throw in some preseason games in Saskatoon and Regina.

Well I'll be a sonofa..... Say, howre' things goin with ICE EDGE HOLDINGS?. :naughty:

The Grizzlies were always one smart draft pick from being a good team.

Actually no Ogopogo, they were 199 sense short of a $2.00 cup of coffee on the court & in the boardroom. :help:

Outside of Toronto, yes, that is what I am saying. The NBA, MLB and NFL would not work in Canada with the exception of Toronto because of the population there.

The Bills games were complete flops; the Blue Jays attendance is anemic and dropping faster than a thermometer in Edmonton on a winters night; the Raptors finally started drawing after mgmnt & personnel changes, though as their still owned by Masters of the Universe MLSE, I fully expect to see a complete reversal of their fortunes on the court & in their case, at the gate, whenever the Minions' of Malice & Mediocrity get done trading away the Leafs draft picks for the next 20yrs & can spare a few minutes. The NHL/NBA could easily co-exist in & flourish in 3 markets here in Canada; Montreal, Toronto & Vancouver. The NFL "maybe" in Toronto if a new stadium was built & tickets priced reasonably & the team right out of the gate was WINNING. Otherwise forget it, and as we know only far too well, winning isnt guaranteed & in a lot of cases not the number one priority. Just ask Peter Pucks Doppleganger here all about it.> :naughty:
 
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Moobles

Registered User
Mar 15, 2009
2,555
0
No... just no.. a regional team would not work. A Vancouver team would already be handicapped financially and would be second to the Canucks in attendance, competing with the new MLS and the Lions to an extent. It would cost WAY too much money to travel back and forth between Vancouver, Calgary and Edmonton. We also can probably support a team ourselves, given that we did a pretty okay job when we had a Milbury-esque GM and some of the worst press in the NBA.

Just throwing out an idea, we all know the rule of supply and demand. In order to drive up demand in the Vancouver Market would it be feasable to name a Basketball team the Western Canada Cougars or something and have 30 "home" games in Vancouver, and 5 each in Edmonton and Calgary and maybe one In winnipeg (not sure if that adds up to a full set of home games. You could also throw in some preseason games in Saskatoon and Regine.

Hopefully this would drive up the demand in Vancouver by limiting the supply create new markets all around western Canada by giving ownership to fans in those cities, and thus entice them to fill the arena's when the team plays there.

I know many will say that players would be even less likely to go to a team that does this but maybe fill the team with some good european talent and hope that they added revenue created by strong attendance and increased nat'l coverage will allow for the team to spend to the cap.

Seems a little hairbrained but the do it in Buffalo and winnipeg was proprosing it too.
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
36,763
3,211
that's like crediting football to england because they played rugby there first.

Hey, dont shoot the messenger. You know ding dangly well theres been a debate about this for years; Montreal vs. Halifax vs. Amsterdam vs. Gothenburg vs. Glasgow vs. on & on. No question the modern game was created in Canada with either the Montreal or Halifax rules, a debate that still rages, however, the origins of the game go back well before the creation of Canada. Dutch & Basque Medieval & Renaissance pictures clearly portray skaters playing hockey, sticks & all, dating back to the Middle Ages. Additionally, their was a diary found in Scotland that was over 250yrs old containing "Rules for Ice Hockey", pre-dating both Montreals & Halifax's claims, written by a Scotsman who'd never even set foot on North American soil. Alas, it was proven to be a fraud & a forgers bit of handiwork, and very well done it was if I do say so myself, but still. :)
 
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Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
36,763
3,211
I knew you were encroaching on 'geezer' status, but didn't think you were old enough to remember the Hurley matches from the old country :laugh:

Had to do something while I was watching those matches so I kept a diary. Is that any reason for the Gloucester County Constabulary, MI6, the RCMP, CSIS & Interpol, all called in by Sothebys Auctions of EW2 London on the Kings Bloody Road, to go busting my ass into a sling with allegations of fraud & forgery?. What'd I do that was so wrong?. Y'know how hard it is to find un-used sheeps-vellum from the 17th century?. :naughty:
 

Free Edler

Enjoy retirement, boys.
Feb 27, 2002
25,385
42
Surrey, BC
Further evidence both cannot survive in Vancouver.

Arthur thought it could work but showed that it actually couldn't work, thus the team is gone and Griffiths owns neither franchise.
Griffiths was hamstrung by the fact he was loaded down with arena debt, on account of building GM Place with his own money - something that Daryl Katz, who is a billionaire isn't willing to do in your beloved town - and was in the midst of a nasty and expensive divorce, owning two pro teams and an arena no longer made sense.

Add to it that he was a millionaire playing a game for billionaires, he did the smart thing and sold the teams and arena to John McCaw, a guy who could handle losses in the short term and ended up making money on the Canucks when he sold to the Aquilinis a few years back.

The failures of the Vancouver Grizzlies were entirely due to two things: the incompetence of front-line basketball staff and their inability to attract quality talent or draft well first, and the Canadian dollar second. Vancouver was easily large enough to support two teams, and it's grown considerably since 2001. Put simply, you're wrong, so take your Vancouver bashing elsewhere.
 

Kirikanoir

Registered User
Dec 16, 2010
1,576
40
The failures of the Vancouver Grizzlies were entirely due to two things: the incompetence of front-line basketball staff and their inability to attract quality talent or draft well first, and the Canadian dollar second. Vancouver was easily large enough to support two teams, and it's grown considerably since 2001. Put simply, you're wrong, so take your Vancouver bashing elsewhere.

I would a third reason to that list. A league that through rule changes seemed determined to set up the new teams to fail from the start.

In some ways, the deck was stacked against the new teams from the beginning as the NBA changed the rules for expansion teams before allowing the Grizzlies and Raptors into the league. The two teams were faced with salary cap restrictions that limited each to 2/3 of the cap of established teams, and were not allowed a chance at the top lottery pick from the draft for their first 5 years in the league. Poor draft decisions, strange trades and terrible contracts that put the Grizzlies in salary cap trouble compounded their woes.

http://everything2.com/title/Vancouver+Grizzlies
 

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