Canucks owner looking to bring NBA back to Vancouver

[Kirikanoir]

When I sat in GM place in 1999 and saw 9,000 people in attendance to see the Grizzlies take on Tim Duncan, David Robinson and the defending NBA champion Spurs, I knew that Vancouver was not the place for NBA basketball.

Vancouver Grizzlies Attendance

Year Total Avg

2000-01 563,218 13,737
1999-00 569,864 13,899
1998-99 417,966 16,719
1997-98 660,457 16,109
1996-97 679,422 16,571
1995-96 704,489 17,183

http://www.databasebasketball.com/teams/teamatt.htm?tm=Van&lg=n

 

[Kirikanoir]

Memphis Grizzlies Attendance

Year Total Avg
2009-10 552,914 13,485
2008-09 509,806 12,745
2007-08 523,578 12,770
2006-07 600,836 14,654
2005-06 647,533 15,793
2004-05 691,362 16,862
2003-04 622,723 15,188
2002-03 614,301 14,983
2001-02 591,030 14,415

http://www.databasebasketball.com/teams/teamatt.htm?tm=MEM&lg=n

 

[demonsurge]

Investing so heavily in Big Country Reeves was akin to tying a rock to your waist and trying to swim in a river.

I would bet a decent amount of money that if they had invested the same into Yao the franchise would be doing fairly well.

 

[Buck Aki Berg]

I don't know how anyone can watch the NBA. The game revolves around a single player or two doing nearly all the work for your team.

You pretty much answered your own question

The fact that you only need to know one or two players per team is what makes the game appealing. It's exhausting being a hockey fan because of all the players that we need to keep track of on every team. It may appeal to us, but for someone just looking for a sport to follow to occupy their evenings, the simplicity of "Team A vs. Team B = Player A vs. Player B" can be very appealing.

 

[frontsfan2005]

Fans boycotted going to Grizzlies games after they announced their move to Memphis, they wanted Heisley to lose as much money as possible before the move.

Put the 03-06 Grizzlies, who were actually decent, into Vancouver, and they would be outdrawing Memphis easily, especially in 04-05 with no NHL hockey in town. With the dollar at par, theres definately alot of money to be made with a Vancouver NBA team.

 

[Melrose Munch]

You describe something I believe Canada can do without (yes there is a team in Toronto, but they don't get a lot of press). I sure there are some NBA fans in Canada, but I haven't met a lot of them.

GHOST

Ghost who made you Canada's sports keeper? The CFL gets zero press in Toronto and Halifax, does that make it less popular? Why should we lose other teams just because someone in Winnipeg with no pro teams does not like them.

MLB would have a better shot in Vancouver, in my opinion.

The NBA/Basketball is basically in the same ballpark as the NHL. The difference is hockey requires cold climate and a lot of equipment...while basketball requires a playground and a ball.

Basketball is 2nd in sports that are the most easily attainable. Soccer being the first. If fans are this lukewarm to the Raptors in Toronto....when every schoolyard has a set of hoops....it really shows how much Canadians aren't that interested in basketball. Everyone has access to it...everyone has probably played it at some point in their lives......and the biggest city in our country is drawing poorly.

I really don't understand why the Canucks owners would be interested AT ALL in the NBA. Buying the Lions would be a better idea.....a MUCH better idea. Buy the Lions and an MLS (or another pro soccer) team and own all the sports.

Part II of the NBA in Vancouver will fail.....again, unless something in Vancouver has REALLY changed in the last decade. Or, if this ownership is willing to spend huge.

You really think Vancouver could compete against LA, the Cubs and Mets???? And yes selig wants outdoor ball parks made with no roof.

 

[MayDay]

Growing up here basketball was pretty popular- it and rugby, football (at JO and in the burbs) and soccer were really the only team sports you could play (hockey's been banned from the GVA high school circuit for about a decade).

Just came across this tidbit while browsing the thread.

There's no high school hockey in Vancouver?!? Are you serious?

I find that mind-boggling. Most US cities have some manner of high school hockey, even Sun Belt cities like Dallas and Phoenix.

 

[Dado]

There's no high school hockey in Vancouver?!? Are you serious?

Canada has an extremely well structured player development system for hockey, there is no need for high school participation as by high school age the best players are already be in one of the 'HLs and traveling to compete against other best players.

 

[Hoser]

Most schools are public schools, and public schools rarely have the money for a hockey team.

If you want to play hockey you play for a minor hockey club. If you have a shot at making the NHL chances are you'd be playing in the CHL anyway. At the very least you'd be playing Junior A.

 

[Killion]

Investing so heavily in Big Country Reeves was akin to tying a rock to your waist and trying to swim in a river.

Weighed down by cinder blocks, wearing oversized waders loaded with primed, ready to go Kablamo' waterproof sticks of TNT.

You really think Vancouver could compete against LA, the Cubs and Mets???? And yes selig wants outdoor ball parks made with no roof.

No ownership group here. No appetite nor the money for a MLB specific outdoor stadium (in a rainforest, yepp, that'll work). Not a chance. Im ambivalent about the NBA, but from a business perspective its about the only sport/league that could survive here. It would quite clearly compliment the Aquilini's holdings of the Canucks & Rogers Arena, a sport with actually a pretty substantial following & participation at the high school levels throughout the province. Had the Grizz in some way shape or form been able to secure local hero Steve (frm Victoria) Nash, story may have had a different ending....

There's no high school hockey in Vancouver?!? Are you serious?

That'd be correct MayDay. Completely different system up here. Toronto has the worlds largest minor hockey league system along with Church Leagues, House Leagues, and a few High School Teams that play a tournament system. Similar programs in Montreal, QC etc. Vancouver's minor hockey system is comprised entirely of non-school related clubs. Baseball is also widely played at the amateur levels (as witness the provinces contributions of MLB players over the yrs) as is Soccer. Football (and Rugby) & Basketball are the major team sports at the high school level. Its a great system actually, with guys like John Ferguson, Joe Sakic, the Kariya's & dozens upon dozens more coming from the Lower Mainland, never mind the interior of BC & Vancouver Island.

 

[AllByDesign]

That'd be correct MayDay. Completely different system up here. Toronto has the worlds largest minor hockey league system along with Church Leagues, House Leagues, and a few High School Teams that play a tournament system. Similar programs in Montreal, QC etc.

Southern Ontario and the GTA have a pretty extensive High School hockey system. I played 4 years in it. Of course I also played in the OMHA as well, but I can assure that there is one area in Canada that has a great Highschool Hockey program.

 

[Killion]

Southern Ontario and the GTA have a pretty extensive High School hockey system. I played 4 years in it. Of course I also played in the OMHA as well, but I can assure that there is one area in Canada that has a great Highschool Hockey program.

Musta' been after my time ABD. I remember UCC & Neil McNeil, the private schools in & around Toronto had it, but certainly not the public school system. Its just gettin harder & harder to keep up & stay relevant with you kids these days...

 

[Hammer79]

I suggest you read the threads about the terribly attended US NHL teams. That sort of "go to see the away team" doesn't seem to fly.
I agree with you on that point.....so....uh.....cheers!

What part of 2K below a sellout do you not comprehend? We aren't talking about 10K fans, we're talking about ~17K in an arena with a maximum of 19.7K. You don't think that they can pick up an extra 3K fans if the team is marginally competitive?

In points...
- Toronto does draw poorly

You know who else repeats mis-truths until they stick as fact in people's minds? Glen Beck

- BC Place could hold MLB....unless MLB has recently outlawed domes
- No new park needed......Minnesota deal is more about an up-to-date stadium than it is indoor or outdoor.

As others have mentioned, they've played exhibition ball there, and the players hated it. MLB wouldn't seriously consider Vancouver if BC Place is part of the bid. The city would have to shell out half a billion, and the will to spend that kind of money isn't going to be strong when people can just head south to Seattle and watch the Mariners.

Same reason Bettman mentions "fixing mistakes" without ever mentioning those mistakes.
So rumours of the team leaving started and the response was???? Nobody showing up to watch the team? Ok.....good approach. How many times do I have to hear that as an excuse before people realize it has NEVER worked.

As others have pointed out, current NBA markets draw a lot worse than the Grizzlies ever did. 16.7K would put the Grizzlies around 15th today. http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance

"Hey....we're thinking of moving the team....oh! Nobody is going to show up now because of that? Oh....ok.....man....a HUGE drop in attendance makes me want to keep this team here." - Quoted from a Mythical Fairytale creature.

Derp! It's never good to go full Pejorative Slur

Blah blah blah....how has the economic environment changed since the Grizzlies were there??

2001 CDN is worth $0.63 USD
2011 CDN is worth $1.015 USD

http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/echarts...osshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=;

I'm not saying it didn't have an impact.....but they were an expansion team. When I look at Phoenix and their mediocre performance in the standings I don't chalk up 100% of their brutal attendance for NHL games to their position in the standings.
It does cause some lower attendance....but not all.

So you agree that it probably accounted for about 3K fans on average... Oh wait, if they got those extra 3K fans in, then they would be selling out regularly. We aren't talking about Phoenix with 11.3K fans and 65% capacity, Vancouver had 85% capacity despite being a putrid expansion team. Just think how they would do with the Hornets, currently a playoff team?

Whatever....I agree that relocation is a good option for leagues....they seem to prefer expansion. It is probably a dollar thing.
As far as talent and potential of those markets go.....yeah....relocation is better. So we are on the same page there.

But.....what you are talking about (Vancouver NBA) is like me asking for the Oakland Seals to be brought back Oakland. I'm not too sure it is the right move......

Heck...it is the NBA....what do I care? Put a team in El Paso for all I care.

The problems were more to do with ownership and the leagues dumb draft restrictions, not fan support.

 

[AllByDesign]

Musta' been after my time ABD. I remember UCC & Neil McNeil, the private schools in & around Toronto had it, but certainly not the public school system. Its just gettin harder & harder to keep up & stay relevant with you kids these days...

I have a colleague who is 51 that has a championship ring from St. Michaels high-school team. I will speak with him as to how many teams would have been in their league... Be right back.

 

[AllByDesign]

... ok I'm back. He says there were a plethora of teams at that time. He recalls that the smaller schools out in the country rarely iced a team, but almost all highschools were represented in a variety of divisions.

 

[Killion]

... ok I'm back. He says there were a plethora of teams at that time. He recalls that the smaller schools out in the country rarely iced a team, but almost all highschools were represented in a variety of divisions.

Heres' an excellent source ABD; www.hockeydb.com though it doesnt' feature amateur or rec' hockey. Im 54, and ya, I remember the private schools playing amongst themselves, St. Mikes, UTS, Neil McNeil etc, some with Metro Jr. B & Provincial Jr. A as well as OHA Jr. B&A teams & affiliations as well noted & well known, but the public high schools?. Not so much, though possible the odd one mightve' particpated. Then again, I may have completely missed the fact that my HS had a team as I dropped out on the very day I turned 16 in Grade 10 and ran away from the Ajax Correctional Facilities.

 

[PhillyPhantic]

I think Seattle would and should get a team before Vancouver. With the new CBA looming though, I doubt we'll see relocation this off season.

 

[Ogopogo*]

Vancouver Grizzlies Attendance

Year Total Avg

2000-01 563,218 13,737
1999-00 569,864 13,899
1998-99 417,966 16,719
1997-98 660,457 16,109
1996-97 679,422 16,571
1995-96 704,489 17,183

http://www.databasebasketball.com/teams/teamatt.htm?tm=Van&lg=n

That's great but, it doesn't change the fact that half the seats were empty the night I went to see the Grizzlies take on the Spurs.

 

[Brodie]

I do wonder how Seattle would react if Vancouver got a team before them. I tend to be pro-Seattle here, so if those dudes are upset I'd probably be upset, too.

 

[Jeremy Hronek]

That's great but, it doesn't change the fact that half the seats were empty the night I went to see the Grizzlies take on the Spurs.

Do you realize how bad the Grizzlies were?

 

[Melrose Munch]

That's great but, it doesn't change the fact that half the seats were empty the night I went to see the Grizzlies take on the Spurs.

Did you count to 9,000?

 

[Free Edler]

Did you count to 9,000?

All while writing it down in his 'I Hate Vancouver' ledger/spirograph booklet. Must've been tough to pay attention to the game with all the people watching he was doing from his seat.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Canada has an extremely well structured player development system for hockey, there is no need for high school participation as by high school age the best players are already be in one of the 'HLs and traveling to compete against other best players.

THe CHL is also expensive. No CHL would give more low income and minorities time to play.

 

[Melrose Munch]

No ownership group here. No appetite nor the money for a MLB specific outdoor stadium (in a rainforest, yepp, that'll work). Not a chance. Im ambivalent about the NBA, but from a business perspective its about the only sport/league that could survive here. It would quite clearly compliment the Aquilini's holdings of the Canucks & Rogers Arena, a sport with actually a pretty substantial following & participation at the high school levels throughout the province. Had the Grizz in some way shape or form been able to secure local hero Steve (frm Victoria) Nash, story may have had a different ending....

Exactly. The league watch each other for fan support. If the response is like this for basketball, what do you think Selig is thinking?

 

[Melrose Munch]

All while writing it down in his 'I Hate Vancouver' ledger/spirograph booklet. Must've been tough to pay attention to the game with all the people watching he was doing from his seat.

He'll through a fit if you mention the CFL is not major league.