Canucks owner looking to bring NBA back to Vancouver

[Ogopogo*]

Thats not true. Vancouver has drawn over 14000 for the NBA.

Not the night I was there.

 

[Hammer79]

Vancouver got jobbed last time around by the draft rules, and by the Francis fiasco. The NBA needed to show some backbone, especially against a rookie, but they chickened out and let him pout his way out of town instead of suspending him until he reported. Add onto that their spotty draft history, and that Grizzlies franchise was doomed. Stern has said that the Vancouver situation was one of his biggest regrets as commissioner, hopefully he's serious about making it right.

The Grizzlies were still pulling in 16K fans in their last season, and that team was never good. The bad old days of Chretien/Martin and the CDN worth 0.62 USD are over. The diluted dollar policy was meant to benefit manufacturing areas in Ontario (Liberal strongholds) at the expense of resource exporters out west (Strong Conservative ridings). With the Conservatives in power, the unofficial weak dollar policy was abandoned, and the $CDN was allowed to float to the point that it's actually worth more than the $USD. With a CDN worth 1.016 USD, this relocation becomes very viable.

Also, don't forget that Rogers Place is NBA-ready, and has a solid anchor tenant already paying the bills. Adding a NBA tenant would be like printing money. This time around though, give us a decent team like the Hornets and don't stick us with another expansion team. We paid our dues thank you very much...

 

[Dado]

NBA players don't want to be in Canada.

As a Canadian, I'm totally ok with that.

'Course, I don't want most of 'em here, anyway.

 

[Melrose Munch]

As a Canadian, I'm totally ok with that.

'Course, I don't want most of 'em here, anyway.

Come on Dado, we are boys, give it a chance.

 

[Jeffrey93]

but basketball cant survive in these non-traditional markets!

It hasn't and won't. I get the sarcasm....but the Raptors play to a pretty empty ACC.....the Grizzlies when in Vancouver were REPORTING just over 13,000 when they left.

Unless something drastic has happened in Vancouver since 2001....this will fail again. It's on the cusp of failing in Toronto.....MLSE likely won't permit it to fail though. I can't imagine that 'Canucks Sports & Entertainment' is anywhere close to having the resources MLSE has either.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

Right, because that's where all the NBA free agents are signing. Cleveland couldn't get a single legit player to come there when they had the best player in the league.

And to be blunt: Yes, they are more recognizable to the average NBA player than Vancouver, which might as well be in Siberia. There are plenty of socio-economic reasons why a bunch of 19 year old black kids from the urban south view playing in the nicest cities in Canada as worse than playing in third rate American markets. From silly preconceived notions that die hard (Canada is all white, Canada is a frozen wasteland) to basic facts that can be scary for kids in their situation (Canada is a foreign country). Obviously it's hard for those of us here on a hockey website to sympathize... Canada is such an integral part of this sport that 15 year old Americans voluntarily move to places like Prince George and Owen Sound to play, but when you consider just how different the basketball universe is from the one we inhabit, it makes total sense.

And then there's the culture of the NBA, which values fame and brand power over all else. Guys like Chris Bosh, even if they can get over the fact that the temperatures on TV are gibberish to them and the money has a Queen on it, are always going to be put off by the lack of visibility in the US. In their minds it doesn't really matter if they can walk on water in Canada... if Madison Avenue and Hollywood don't know who they are, something must change. And you're never going to be more than a second rate star in the NBA playing for a team that's never featured on ESPN.

You describe something I believe Canada can do without (yes there is a team in Toronto, but they don't get a lot of press). I sure there are some NBA fans in Canada, but I haven't met a lot of them.

GHOST

 

[Jeffrey93]

Very true. Do you all remember when the Vancouver Grizzlies drafted Steve Francis? The camera turned to Francis and he did a face palm on national TV.

NBA players don't want to be in Canada.

I have to figure most of these "college graduates" have zero idea where Canada is or what life in Canada is like.

Dispute me all you want....there are plenty of facts to back this statement up. But heck....ignorance is bliss right??

 

[Jeffrey93]

You describe something I believe Canada can do without. I sure there are some NBA fans up here, but I haven't met a lot of them.

GHOST

MLB would have a better shot in Vancouver, in my opinion.

The NBA/Basketball is basically in the same ballpark as the NHL. The difference is hockey requires cold climate and a lot of equipment...while basketball requires a playground and a ball.

Basketball is 2nd in sports that are the most easily attainable. Soccer being the first. If fans are this lukewarm to the Raptors in Toronto....when every schoolyard has a set of hoops....it really shows how much Canadians aren't that interested in basketball. Everyone has access to it...everyone has probably played it at some point in their lives......and the biggest city in our country is drawing poorly.

I really don't understand why the Canucks owners would be interested AT ALL in the NBA. Buying the Lions would be a better idea.....a MUCH better idea. Buy the Lions and an MLS (or another pro soccer) team and own all the sports.

Part II of the NBA in Vancouver will fail.....again, unless something in Vancouver has REALLY changed in the last decade. Or, if this ownership is willing to spend huge.

 

[Hammer79]

I really don't understand why the Canucks owners would be interested AT ALL in the NBA. Buying the Lions would be a better idea.....a MUCH better idea. Buy the Lions and an MLS (or another pro soccer) team and own all the sports.

Part II of the NBA in Vancouver will fail.....again, unless something in Vancouver has REALLY changed in the last decade. Or, if this ownership is willing to spend huge.

Because Vancouver has a NBA ready arena ready to go with plenty of off-nights to alternate with the Canucks. The biggest investment has been made, and to let the arena sit empty on off-nights is just burning away potential profit. Also, Vancouver has large minority communities, and basketball is usually a strong draw from those demographics. I strongly disagree that it will fail, it will draw from a different fan base, one that isn't as enthusiastic about hockey.

MLB would have a better shot in Vancouver, in my opinion.

They would have to build a stadium, and draw 40k to 50k fans for 81 game days. The league has no salary cap, just a luxury tax, so the same teams load up every year. If Toronto can't keep up, neither will Vancouver. The potential for failure is much, much higher.

It hasn't and won't. I get the sarcasm....but the Raptors play to a pretty empty ACC.....the Grizzlies when in Vancouver were REPORTING just over 13,000 when they left.

You've got your facts wrong.

95/96 17,183
96/97 16,571
97/98 16,109
98/99 16,719
99/00 13,899
00/01 13,737

Attendance dipped by 99/00, when relocation talk was heating up. For a perennial bottom feeder team in the snow/rain belt during a 60 cent dollar era and in context of the asia meltdown and global recession, those are pretty good attendance figures. Toronto's attendance has nothing to do with the situation in Vancouver.

 

[Moobles]

Man I don't even watch the NBA, haven't played basketball in 4 years and here I am defending it..

The NBA/Basketball is basically in the same ballpark as the NHL. The difference is hockey requires cold climate and a lot of equipment...while basketball requires a playground and a ball.

Vancouver doesn't have a very cold climate. We might some snow this week... maybe 1.. 2 inches. It'll be gone within a few days and back to 10-12° weather till April. Unlike the rest of Canada, which is freezing their ***** off, we can probably safely play basketball outdoors all year long.

Come to think of it, I don't know if there's ever been pond hockey played in Vancouver, I don't think it's ever gotten that cold. I know in Langley and stuff it has, but not here.. and even then it wasn't for more than maybe a day or two. So there's a big slap in the face to the whole "cold places love hockey more" argument as well .

Basketball is 2nd in sports that are the most easily attainable. Soccer being the first. If fans are this lukewarm to the Raptors in Toronto....when every schoolyard has a set of hoops....it really shows how much Canadians aren't that interested in basketball. Everyone has access to it...everyone has probably played it at some point in their lives......and the biggest city in our country is drawing poorly.

Don't conflate Toronto Raptors attendance with national interest in basketball. I'm not even going into the Raptors mismanagement, but it's a miracle that fans even go (look at the Grizzlies, Clippers, Hawks or Hornets for comparison..) and contrary to your point, is perhaps illustrative of the resiliance of basketball's popularity at least in Toronto.

More to the point, honestly, the Canucks are the most popular professional team in Vancouver, but basketball and soccer are by far the most popular sports played among kids and young adults. BY FAR. This doesn't necessarily translate into seats, but at the very least you can bet people will be dishing out big bucks to see the Heat, Lakers, Suns or Celtics play in the city. Growing up here basketball was pretty popular- it and rugby, football (at JO and in the burbs) and soccer were really the only team sports you could play (hockey's been banned from the GVA high school circuit for about a decade). Plenty of my friends still pay attention to the NBA, and most are fans of either the Lakers or Celtics, with a few bandwaggoners here and there. Hell, at the last hockey game that I went to in December people were talking Lakers/Heat a few rows ahead of me.

Does this mean the NBA is a guaranteed success here? No. But contrary to what you think, basketball is hardly off the city's radar. And especially if the NBA's looking to grow the game... I mean, Victoria did produce Steve Nash against the odds, and actually, thanks to him basketball's been way more on the radar than ever. His happenings in the NBA are occasionally front-page news and you can always find articles in the paper on what the Suns have been up to (sports section behind the Canucks and occasionally Lions, but still..)

I really don't understand why the Canucks owners would be interested AT ALL in the NBA. Buying the Lions would be a better idea.....a MUCH better idea. Buy the Lions and an MLS (or another pro soccer) team and own all the sports.

Part II of the NBA in Vancouver will fail.....again, unless something in Vancouver has REALLY changed in the last decade. Or, if this ownership is willing to spend huge.

It's a risk, but a lot of people into basketball here don't go to hockey games. This is based off conjecture and just social networking as a guy living in Vancity, but there's a pretty substantial portion of the population that's just uninterested in going to Cauncks games or spending money on the Canucks. More people tune in during playoffs or when we're on a roll, but there's a whole untapped market here for basketball that they might think they can exploit. I don't know how big it is, but there's potential.

And yeah, Vancouver really has changed a lot in 10 years. Not getting into that it'll get way OT, but even in terms of the Canucks things have changed greatly.

You describe something I believe Canada can do without (yes there is a team in Toronto, but they don't get a lot of press). I sure there are some NBA fans in Canada, but I haven't met a lot of them.

GHOST

Dude... I don't even know what to say. The Raptors get tons of press... front page news in my googlenews Canada section "Bosh returns to Toronto, 25 points" blah blah. They're #1 in the city (that's always going to be the Leafs) and definitely not the same crazy scene as with the Knicks or Heat or Lakers, but still surprisingly high. Where are you getting this information?

Just to clear it up, I could care less if we get an NBA team back. I think it could work, and have made it known so, but if they do or don't it makes no difference to me. I'd probably go watch a few games though if they did.

 

[Jeffrey93]

Because Vancouver has a NBA ready arena ready to go with plenty of off-nights to alternate with the Canucks. The biggest investment has been made, and to let the arena sit empty on off-nights is just burning away potential profit. Also, Vancouver has large minority communities, and basketball is usually a strong draw from those demographics. I strongly disagree that it will fail, it will draw from a different fan base, one that isn't as enthusiastic about hockey.

Where was that fanbase 10 years ago? Did they just show up? GM Place/Rogers Arena was there when the previous NBA team was there as well. So you are basing the justification of an NBA team in Vancouver solely on "minorities".

They would have to build a stadium, and draw 40k to 50k fans for 81 game days. The league has no salary cap, just a luxury tax, so the same teams load up every year. If Toronto can't keep up, neither will Vancouver. The potential for failure is much, much higher.

BC Place could handle the MLB. Weird though...if Toronto can't keep up with the MLB...Vancouver can't either. But Toronto draws poorly int he NBA...but Vancouver won't?!?! What is the difference there? The "minorities" not as interested in baseball?

You've got your facts wrong.

95/96 17,183
96/97 16,571
97/98 16,109
98/99 16,719
99/00 13,899
00/01 13,737

I said when they left they were REPORTING just over 13,000. You put that in 00/01 they averaged 13,737. Where exactly are my facts wrong when they are the same as yours??

Attendance dipped by 99/00, when relocation talk was heating up. For a perennial bottom feeder team in the snow/rain belt during a 60 cent dollar era and in context of the asia meltdown and global recession, those are pretty good attendance figures. Toronto's attendance has nothing to do with the situation in Vancouver.

There was a global recession in 2000?? Ok. What would you call the situation we are in now then?? An apocalyptic financial collapse of global proportions??

Maybe the exchange rate will make the difference...but so far from all you have said that is the ONLY difference I see that makes Vancouver any different than it was before when they HAD an NBA team.

 

[Jeffrey93]

I'm not even going into the Raptors mismanagement, but it's a miracle that fans even go (look at the Grizzlies, Clippers, Hawks or Hornets for comparison..) and contrary to your point, is perhaps illustrative of the resiliance of basketball's popularity at least in Toronto.

Oh my! Are you also a fan of the Islanders, Devils, Thrashers, Panthers & Coyotes?!?!

Yup...it ALLLLL has to do with total mismanagement. No other reasons for awful attendance!!

 

[Jeffrey93]

It's odd...that I hope Vancouver gets an NBA team and I hope it does well....similar to my feelings about Winnipeg and the NHL.

However, I am able to realize that my "hopes" won't make it happen .....and cold hard facts tell me it won't and if it does...it won't be good.

 

[The Apologist]

But Toronto draws poorly int he NBA...but Vancouver won't?!?!

Toronto draws poorly in the NBA?

Raptors average attendance: 16230 ranked 18th, right up there with the lousy basketball market of Detroit.

2010: 17897 14th
2009: 18773 10th
2008: 19435 9th
2007: 18258 14th

Raptors draw just fine. In fact, with a team that is borderline garbage, they are still middle of the pack attendance wise. Are they the Lakers? No, but Toronto is a solid basketball market. If Vancouver gets the support this city has given the Raps, they'll be fine.

 

[The Apologist]

It's odd...that I hope Vancouver gets an NBA team and I hope it does well....similar to my feelings about Winnipeg and the NHL.

However, I am able to realize that my "hopes" won't make it happen .....and cold hard facts tell me it won't and if it does...it won't be good.

What are these cold hard facts?

 

[The Apologist]

Toronto draws poorly in the NBA?

Raptors average attendance: 16230 ranked 18th, right up there with the lousy basketball market of Detroit.

2010: 17897 14th
2009: 18773 10th
2008: 19435 9th
2007: 18258 14th

Raptors draw just fine. In fact, with a team that is borderline garbage, they are still middle of the pack attendance wise. Are they the Lakers? No, but Toronto is a solid basketball market. If Vancouver gets the support this city has given the Raps, they'll be fine.

To add to that, the Raptors record during that span:
2011: 15-40
2010: 40-42
2009: 33-49
2008: 41-41
2007: 47-35

so yeah, pretty damn good basketball market if you ask me

 

[Jeffrey93]

Toronto draws poorly in the NBA?

Raptors average attendance: 16230 ranked 18th, right up there with the lousy basketball market of Detroit.

2010: 17897 14th
2009: 18773 10th
2008: 19435 9th
2007: 18258 14th

Raptors draw just fine. In fact, with a team that is borderline garbage, they are still middle of the pack attendance wise. Are they the Lakers? No, but Toronto is a solid basketball market. If Vancouver gets the support this city has given the Raps, they'll be fine.

And this year they are drawing a reported 16,371 (Pistons about 10 less people). It's funny because I happen to listen to Detroit radio stations online.....they often talk about how empty the Palace has been lately. They also talked quite a bit about how if the sale didn't go well the team would possibly be moving.

So.....we're comparing the Raptors (that are in Toronto....that is larger than Vancouver) attendance to that of the Pistons that are currently in a sale predicament and drawing poorly to show that a Vancouver team will draw well??

Where is the data that shows a Vancouver team would draw differently than it did 9 years ago? And how this would help the Canucks...I have no idea. Unless they are getting tired of profiting and are searching for a way to lose money.

 

[Jeffrey93]

To add to that, the Raptors record during that span:
2011: 15-40
2010: 40-42
2009: 33-49
2008: 41-41
2007: 47-35

so yeah, pretty damn good basketball market if you ask me

Oh....right. So NHL hockey in Sunrise Florida is A-OK then!!! Because their record hasn't been that great lately. It's obvious if their place in the standings was better they would be selling 18,000 tickets a night in Sunrise at an average of $90 a piece. That's super obvious. And it IS sad I have to add that emoticon thingy.

If people in Canada were interested in hoops they would sell the ACC out every night regardless of their record. They would go to see the "NBA" brand. They paper that place.....good or not......if they make a run you might see a spike in attendance but it will immediately be followed by a huge slump in attendance when they go back to mediocrity.

 

[The Apologist]

And this year they are drawing a reported 16,371 (Pistons about 10 less people). It's funny because I happen to listen to Detroit radio stations online.....they often talk about how empty the Palace has been lately. They also talked quite a bit about how if the sale didn't go well the team would possibly be moving.

So.....we're comparing the Raptors (that are in Toronto....that is larger than Vancouver) attendance to that of the Pistons that are currently in a sale predicament and drawing poorly to show that a Vancouver team will draw well??

Where is the data that shows a Vancouver team would draw differently than it did 9 years ago? And how this would help the Canucks...I have no idea. Unless they are getting tired of profiting and are searching for a way to lose money.

Really? I don't see or hear much about the Pistons leaving Detroit... I hear a lot about them moving to a new arena, but not leaving Detroit. Do you have a link, or anything to support this assertion? And yes, we are comparing Toronto (which is larger than Vancouver, although I'm not sure what point exactly you're making with that?), drawing an average of 16230 (once again, middle of the NBA pack) for a team that is 15-40, to Detroit. I ask again, how does Toronto not draw well for the NBA? I'd say they've done extremely well...

 

[The Apologist]

Oh....right. So NHL hockey in Sunrise Florida is A-OK then!!! Because their record hasn't been that great lately. It's obvious if their place in the standings was better they would be selling 18,000 tickets a night in Sunrise at an average of $90 a piece. That's super obvious. And it IS sad I have to add that emoticon thingy.

If people in Canada were interested in hoops they would sell the ACC out every night regardless of their record. They would go to see the "NBA" brand. They paper that place.....good or not......if they make a run you might see a spike in attendance but it will immediately be followed by a huge slump in attendance when they go back to mediocrity.

Funny, because before this season, they pretty much were. Now, there is nothing to see, literally.

As for Florida, they are averaging nearly 1200 less per game than the Raptors do. The average Raptors ticket is right around teh NBA average, while the Panthers are below league average. SO once again, Raptors are fine.

 

[The Apologist]

Oh....right. So NHL hockey in Sunrise Florida is A-OK then!!! Because their record hasn't been that great lately. It's obvious if their place in the standings was better they would be selling 18,000 tickets a night in Sunrise at an average of $90 a piece. That's super obvious. And it IS sad I have to add that emoticon thingy.

If people in Canada were interested in hoops they would sell the ACC out every night regardless of their record. They would go to see the "NBA" brand. They paper that place.....good or not......if they make a run you might see a spike in attendance but it will immediately be followed by a huge slump in attendance when they go back to mediocrity.

By the way, not sure where the Sunrise argument is coming from, I have never contended that the Panthers are leaving, and in fact, don't think they should.

 

[Hammer79]

Where was that fanbase 10 years ago? Did they just show up? GM Place/Rogers Arena was there when the previous NBA team was there as well. So you are basing the justification of an NBA team in Vancouver solely on "minorities".

Well, they were 2k below selling out, and people were paying to see a putrid team. I'm not solely basing it on minorities, I'm pointing out that there is a large portion of the population that is decidedly 'Meh' to hockey, but are into basketball. Not all Canadians are die-hard hockey fans, contrary to popular belief. Also, many would go to games to see specific away teams. Games vs the Lakers always drew well for example.

BC Place could handle the MLB. Weird though...if Toronto can't keep up with the MLB...Vancouver can't either. But Toronto draws poorly int he NBA...but Vancouver won't?!?! What is the difference there? The "minorities" not as interested in baseball?

As another poster just pointed out, Toronto doesn't draw poorly at all. As for baseball, you need a baseball field before you can bring a team to town. No, BC Place won't cut it, almost all ball parks have gone to outdoor parks or retractable roofs. Recently opened Target field for the Twins cost $545M. Do you really think that there is half a billion available to build a baseball stadium right now, especially when baseball fans can just go to Seattle to watch a game?

I said when they left they were REPORTING just over 13,000. You put that in 00/01 they averaged 13,737. Where exactly are my facts wrong when they are the same as yours??

In the last two seasons, the writing was on the wall. It was all over the local papers that buyers were trying to move the team, and a backlash started. For as long as fans thought the team was staying, attendance was consistently north of 16K. If Stern was worried about Vancouver's attendance potential, why would he say "I have regrets about Vancouver and Seattle."

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/...ts+about+Vancouver+Seattle/4290133/story.html

There was a global recession in 2000?? Ok. What would you call the situation we are in now then?? An apocalyptic financial collapse of global proportions??

Maybe the exchange rate will make the difference...but so far from all you have said that is the ONLY difference I see that makes Vancouver any different than it was before when they HAD an NBA team.

You cherry-picked one point, while ignoring the others. At the risk of going OT, Canada is riding out the current recession with some difficulties. The asia meltdown on the other hand hit the country harder partly because the economic output of the country was half what it is today (not adjusted for inflation), and the west coast was hit particularly hard. Exporting to Asia was an important part of BC's economy.

Besides the politics, do you even know how bad the Grizzlies were in the standings? Their best season was 00/01, when they went 23-59. Their worst was 96/97, when they finished 14-68. Are you seriously suggesting that their terrible performance didn't have an effect on attendance?

What makes me think it won't happen like that this time around? For one, it's not an expansion team we're talking about, it's the Hornets. Second, new ownership. Aquilini wasn't involved in the Grizzlies, and he's shown an eye for hiring managerial talent. Previous ownership meant well, but hired the wrong people. The Canucks were almost as bad at the time as well, and a lot of that had to do with poor management.

 

[Jeffrey93]

Well, they were 2k below selling out, and people were paying to see a putrid team. I'm not solely basing it on minorities, I'm pointing out that there is a large portion of the population that is decidedly 'Meh' to hockey, but are into basketball. Not all Canadians are die-hard hockey fans, contrary to popular belief. Also, many would go to games to see specific away teams. Games vs the Lakers always drew well for example.

I suggest you read the threads about the terribly attended US NHL teams. That sort of "go to see the away team" doesn't seem to fly.
I agree with you on that point.....so....uh.....cheers!

As another poster just pointed out, Toronto doesn't draw poorly at all. As for baseball, you need a baseball field before you can bring a team to town. No, BC Place won't cut it, almost all ball parks have gone to outdoor parks or retractable roofs. Recently opened Target field for the Twins cost $545M. Do you really think that there is half a billion available to build a baseball stadium right now, especially when baseball fans can just go to Seattle to watch a game?

In points...
- Toronto does draw poorly
- BC Place could hold MLB....unless MLB has recently outlawed domes
- No new park needed......Minnesota deal is more about an up-to-date stadium than it is indoor or outdoor.

In the last two seasons, the writing was on the wall. It was all over the local papers that buyers were trying to move the team, and a backlash started. For as long as fans thought the team was staying, attendance was consistently north of 16K. If Stern was worried about Vancouver's attendance potential, why would he say "I have regrets about Vancouver and Seattle."

Same reason Bettman mentions "fixing mistakes" without ever mentioning those mistakes.
So rumours of the team leaving started and the response was???? Nobody showing up to watch the team? Ok.....good approach. How many times do I have to hear that as an excuse before people realize it has NEVER worked.
"Hey....we're thinking of moving the team....oh! Nobody is going to show up now because of that? Oh....ok.....man....a HUGE drop in attendance makes me want to keep this team here." - Quoted from a Mythical Fairytale creature.

You cherry-picked one point, while ignoring the others. At the risk of going OT, Canada is riding out the current recession with some difficulties. The asia meltdown on the other hand hit the country harder partly because the economic output of the country was half what it is today (not adjusted for inflation), and the west coast was hit particularly hard. Exporting to Asia was an important part of BC's economy.

Blah blah blah....how has the economic environment changed since the Grizzlies were there??

Besides the politics, do you even know how bad the Grizzlies were in the standings? Their best season was 00/01, when they went 23-59. Their worst was 96/97, when they finished 14-68. Are you seriously suggesting that their terrible performance didn't have an effect on attendance?

I'm not saying it didn't have an impact.....but they were an expansion team. When I look at Phoenix and their mediocre performance in the standings I don't chalk up 100% of their brutal attendance for NHL games to their position in the standings.
It does cause some lower attendance....but not all.

What makes me think it won't happen like that this time around? For one, it's not an expansion team we're talking about, it's the Hornets. Second, new ownership. Aquilini wasn't involved in the Grizzlies, and he's shown an eye for hiring managerial talent. Previous ownership meant well, but hired the wrong people. The Canucks were almost as bad at the time as well, and a lot of that had to do with poor management.

Whatever....I agree that relocation is a good option for leagues....they seem to prefer expansion. It is probably a dollar thing.
As far as talent and potential of those markets go.....yeah....relocation is better. So we are on the same page there.

But.....what you are talking about (Vancouver NBA) is like me asking for the Oakland Seals to be brought back Oakland. I'm not too sure it is the right move......

Heck...it is the NBA....what do I care? Put a team in El Paso for all I care.

 

[The Apologist]

In points...
- Toronto does draw poorly

Just because you keep saying it, doesn't make it true...... In fact, we've already shown you it's not.

 

[Gulvorn]

I don't know how anyone can watch the NBA. The game revolves around a single player or two doing nearly all the work for your team. Then you try and pair him with hopefully someone who can pass well and someone really tall who just stands in the paint the whole game. At least NCAA basketball is slightly entertaining because there is a lot more parity and the superstars are all gone after 1 year making it all actually more exciting.

That said, I actually wouldn't want my team to pick up an NBA team. If you don't get lucky enough to be horrible to get a generational talent in the league then you stand a pretty low chance at ever accomplishing anything.

Let's take a look at the "parity" of champions since 1999....Lakers 5 times, the Spurs 4 times, Heat, Celtics, Pistons. Real exciting for everyone else in the league.

Oh and then if you go back to 1980-1999 it looks like this: Bulls 6 times, Lakers 4 times, Celtics 3 times, Pistons 2 times, Rockets 2, and the 76ers once.

Over the course of 30 seasons, the NBA championships have been split between 8 teams. 4 of those teams winning it only once. The Lakers, Spurs, Celtics, and Bulls combined for 23 of the last 30 championships.

Real real exciting for everyone else. And nearly all those championships happen in consecutive years or around a 7-8 year time span. Lakers-Celtics from 80-88, Pisons-Bulls-Rockets 89-98, Spurs-Lakers 99-10

If I was an NBA fan, I'd say please keep a team away from here. They stand absolutely no chance at ever winning anything and will just be a giant sinkhole, and then they will just eventually leave because the league doesn't care if you never got a star player to build around which is the only way to win in the NBA.