Canucks owner looking to bring NBA back to Vancouver

[Killion]

... yeah... so uhm any thoughts on how this may affect the Canucks?....Would an NBA team bring in more corporate sponsorhip, or would it eat into the Canucks pie?....Same for ticket sales?
I realize that Aquilini believes it would bring more, but is there a different opinion? When the Grizzlies came into the league it seemed that the Canucks were starting a "fan resurgence". Could this spell trouble for both franchises down the road?

No, I dont think so ABD. The "fan resurgence" your alluding to never went away & certainly peaked in 94 when the team made it to the Finals, however, contemporaneously the new arena was under construction & set to open. The economy started to tank a bit, and the Canucks/Grizzlies Ticket Sales Office were having to work overtime to sell ST's & multi-game "Ice" & "Jam" Packs. Canucks fans simply couldnt afford to buy & sellout the new rink as a result of the economic downturn. Ownership (Griffiths) was forced to find a partner (McCaw-Seattle) in order to complete both the building & of course pay for the NBA entry fee's, mgmnt etc. What they did then as they'd likely do now is to sell combined sponsorships to both teams, lowering the price to do so for the Canucks while adding the NBA team & thus generating more revenue overall. Tickets as well would likely be combined, whereby various NHL/NBA packages would be offered. Demand for Canucks tickets & sponsorship is extremely high, so just how much "discounting" for either or would likely be very minimal at best, maybe in the 3-5-7% range if that, and only when buying both properties.

No interest in NBA. Now, if UBC was joining the PAC-10, then I'd be interested in watching hoops.

Ditto Dado. Double Ditto on Nooners' at the Nat & single or AAA...

 

[MoreOrr]

The NBA will not work in Vancouver. Nothing has really changed since the Grizzlies relocated... if anything things have gotten worse for small market teams. And Chris Bosh basically came out and said what we all already knew: nobody wants to play in a foreign country where they don't get to be on ESPN twice a week and get their own shoe.

Two things... First, the Grizzlies weren't really given a fair chance to see if the NBA would work there. But secondly, if it would've worked it certainly would've been when Seattle had a team to build a rivalry against.

 

[AllByDesign]

Except that Vancouver gets less snow that many NBA cities.

So, not so brilliant after all.

Buzz-Killer. And you call yourself a Bruins fan...

 

[MAROONSRoad]

I hope this doesn't happen. I'm not a big fan of the NBA. But I guess it's not the end of the world.

I thought AEG wanted to bring a team to Kansas City. Go do something AEG!

GHOST

 

[LadyStanley]

AEG would have to sell the Kings first (to buy another NHL team)

 

[Melrose Munch]

I hope this doesn't happen. I'm not a big fan of the NBA. But I guess it's not the end of the world.

I thought AEG wanted to bring a team to Kansas City. Go do something AEG!

GHOST

Please tell what is so bad about any other sport besides hockey.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Wouldn't that depend on the ownership?

Besides, teams like Tampa and Minnesota are able to competitive in MLB.

For 3 years. Then back to the bottom. The team would have to be NL and even then, LA and the Cubs.

 

[Dado]

Nooners at the Nat are great. Could you imagine how awesome ballgames would be if Kerfoot was allowed to build his 20k seat facility down by the waterfront?

Hot damn, I'd trade a few bike lanes for that...

 

[Dado]

For 3 years. Then back to the bottom.

That's longer than their teams are competitive in the NHL.

 

[Mike in MN]

Not to get to OT...

The Twins aren't "small market", they're in a bigger market than roughly half of MLB cities. The Metrodome got them small-market-level revenues. Target Field fixed that. Also, I'm pretty sure they've been competitive for nearly a decade now, not "three years"

That said, I'd LOVE to see MLB add two AL teams in Montreal and Vancouver. They need two more AL teams to balance the leagues anyways.

But on topic, the NBA gave up way too easily on Vancouver (and Seattle...). You can't truly judge a non-traditional market after only a few years...

 

[blueandgoldguy]

If Vancouver does get another shot at an NBA team this will be great news. It's always good when you have different sporting options in your city. I'm sure the effect on the Canucks would be minimal. Season ticket sales would continue to be very strong and they have the third largest number of corporate head offices of any Canadian city in Canada. There should be enough corporate money to be allocated betw. the 2 franchises for sponsorships, advertisements, suites and club seats.

I didn't care for the way Vancouver was treated the first time around. They were only given 6 years to build their market and Stern and the NBA allowed the owner to pickup and run without so much of a fight. Pretty funny that Grizzlies ended up in a smaller city with a smaller corporate base. Now Memphis is one of the most financially troubled teams in the NBA....

I think Vancouver could support either MLB or NBA, but not both. The city has approx. 2.3 million for its GMA. I think that would be little small to have 3 successful franchises in the Big 4 Pro Leagues. As for the stadium, Vancouver would have to build a baseball-only park (no teams play in multiplex stadiums anymore) and who is going to spend $400+ million pay for it?

 

[Melrose Munch]

That's longer than their teams are competitive in the NHL.

IMO Selig has driven the sport into the ground. the NHL is not alone. MLB is not as bad, but it is poorly run.

 

[Duke749]

but basketball cant survive in these non-traditional markets!

Truely a great 1st response in a thread. Props to you Telfo.

 

[Moobles]

Not sure if there's interest for the MLB. There's definitely some interest and plenty of people out here and throughout B.C. play baseball, but there's teams that are ahead of the depth chart for incoming franchises in the MLB, and though it's played I wouldn't say baseball's popular in the city...

Now basketball is, and I made an optimistic post on the 'Nucks board about this. I think it could work- but it has to be a franchise that starts with a foundation and that has a smart, competent money-ball manager. Any owner in Canada has to build the team's reputation, and that probably means going for non-traditional players (overlooked in the drafts/college), international players (there are plenty more now than when the Grizz were around) and a team that builds itself college-style, not just "LeBron + complementary players".

You can see there's a lot of conditionals. And Vancouver's going to take the same kind of heat from NBA fans and likely a lot of players too that Florida and Atlanta take from hockey fans- that we're a non-traditional market, if attendance is poor that we "don't deserve a team", that the NBA needs to contract, etc. If the team is anything less than spectacularly run and well marketed it could end up being a big failure . But we're a much better sports town than we were 10 years ago, for both the 'Nucks and any NBA team that comes here.

Also, in terms of our GMA, the Lower Mainland (which would be the rough parable to U.S. demographic statistical measures) sits on 2.5 mil people as of 2007, and has likely grown closer to 2.6/2.7 since then. Makes no difference to your claim, I think it's totally legit (we couldn't handle 3 franchises), but yeah.

If Vancouver does get another shot at an NBA team this will be great news. It's always good when you have different sporting options in your city. I'm sure the effect on the Canucks would be minimal. Season ticket sales would continue to be very strong and they have the third largest number of corporate head offices of any Canadian city in Canada. There should be enough corporate money to be allocated betw. the 2 franchises for sponsorships, advertisements, suites and club seats.

I didn't care for the way Vancouver was treated the first time around. They were only given 6 years to build their market and Stern and the NBA allowed the owner to pickup and run without so much of a fight. Pretty funny that Grizzlies ended up in a smaller city with a smaller corporate base. Now Memphis is one of the most financially troubled teams in the NBA....

I think Vancouver could support either MLB or NBA, but not both. The city has approx. 2.3 million for its GMA. I think that would be little small to have 3 successful franchises in the Big 4 Pro Leagues. As for the stadium, Vancouver would have to build a baseball-only park (no teams play in multiplex stadiums anymore) and who is going to spend $400+ million pay for it?

 

[Ogopogo*]

NBA basketball in Vancouver is as dumb as NHL hockey in Atlanta.

 

[Melrose Munch]

NBA basketball in Vancouver is as dumb as NHL hockey in Atlanta.

Or as dumb as the CFL in Toronto.

 

[Ogopogo*]

Not to get to OT...

The Twins aren't "small market", they're in a bigger market than roughly half of MLB cities. The Metrodome got them small-market-level revenues. Target Field fixed that. Also, I'm pretty sure they've been competitive for nearly a decade now, not "three years"

That said, I'd LOVE to see MLB add two AL teams in Montreal and Vancouver. They need two more AL teams to balance the leagues anyways.

But on topic, the NBA gave up way too easily on Vancouver (and Seattle...). You can't truly judge a non-traditional market after only a few years...

When I sat in GM place in 1999 and saw 9,000 people in attendance to see the Grizzlies take on Tim Duncan, David Robinson and the defending NBA champion Spurs, I knew that Vancouver was not the place for NBA basketball.

 

[Ogopogo*]

The NBA will not work in Vancouver. Nothing has really changed since the Grizzlies relocated... if anything things have gotten worse for small market teams. And Chris Bosh basically came out and said what we all already knew: nobody wants to play in a foreign country where they don't get to be on ESPN twice a week and get their own shoe.

Very true. Do you all remember when the Vancouver Grizzlies drafted Steve Francis? The camera turned to Francis and he did a face palm on national TV.

NBA players don't want to be in Canada.

 

[worstfaceoffmanever]

NBA basketball in Vancouver is as dumb as NHL hockey in Atlanta.

You have to bear in mind that Atlanta's owners are pants-on-head Pejorative Slured. If they knew anything about marketing, both the Thrashers and Hawks would be much better draws than they are, but ASG have no clue what they're doing, and both franchises' futures are in doubt as a result.

Aquilini, by contrast, seems to know how to put together a sports organization. I think with the much stronger economy in Canada (as opposed to when the Grizzlies left), a team could be pretty successful there.

 

[obsenssive*]

...Chris Bosh basically came out and said what we all already knew: nobody wants to play in a foreign country where they don't get to be on ESPN twice a week and get their own shoe.

right... because charlotte NC, cleveland ohio, sacramento CA, and indianapolis indiana etc... are all so... uhh.. "recognizable". haha

the NBA is basically LA and then nothing.

 

[obsenssive*]

Aquilini, by contrast, seems to know how to put together a sports organization. I think with the much stronger economy in Canada (as opposed to when the Grizzlies left), a team could be pretty successful there.

uhhh what?

 

[SENSfreak_03]

Hasn't Stern said that basically his biggest regret was giving up on Vancouver so easily? So I could see it happening some day.

As for Baseball, I think the Seattle Mariners wouldn't be to happy about a team in Vancouver, and I'm not sure if it would work.

 

[Melrose Munch]

When I sat in GM place in 1999 and saw 9,000 people in attendance to see the Grizzlies take on Tim Duncan, David Robinson and the defending NBA champion Spurs, I knew that Vancouver was not the place for NBA basketball.

Thats not true. Vancouver has drawn over 14000 for the NBA.

 

[worstfaceoffmanever]

uhhh what?

Uhhh the Canadian dollar is significantly stronger than it was when the Grizzlies left (at least in relation to the US), and since salaries are paid in USD but revenues are in CAD, the ~1:1 ratio between the two nations' currencies help keep Canadian teams from hemorrhaging money if they can't fill the building. Is that really so hard to understand?

 

[Brodie]

right... because charlotte NC, cleveland ohio, sacramento CA, and indianapolis indiana etc... are all so... uhh.. "recognizable". haha

the NBA is basically LA and then nothing.

Right, because that's where all the NBA free agents are signing. Cleveland couldn't get a single legit player to come there when they had the best player in the league.

And to be blunt: Yes, they are more recognizable to the average NBA player than Vancouver, which might as well be in Siberia. There are plenty of socio-economic reasons why a bunch of 19 year old black kids from the urban south view playing in the nicest cities in Canada as worse than playing in third rate American markets. From silly preconceived notions that die hard (Canada is all white, Canada is a frozen wasteland) to basic facts that can be scary for kids in their situation (Canada is a foreign country). Obviously it's hard for those of us here on a hockey website to sympathize... Canada is such an integral part of this sport that 15 year old Americans voluntarily move to places like Prince George and Owen Sound to play, but when you consider just how different the basketball universe is from the one we inhabit, it makes total sense.

And then there's the culture of the NBA, which values fame and brand power over all else. Guys like Chris Bosh, even if they can get over the fact that the temperatures on TV are gibberish to them and the money has a Queen on it, are always going to be put off by the lack of visibility in the US. In their minds it doesn't really matter if they can walk on water in Canada... if Madison Avenue and Hollywood don't know who they are, something must change. And you're never going to be more than a second rate star in the NBA playing for a team that's never featured on ESPN.