Canucks Off-season Thread - Canucks re-sign Teves, Rafferty, Boucher

[4Twenty]

But he is better. Thats why he played more. Are you getting the point yet?

Oh boy.

 

[Phenomenon13]

Hmm. I don't think my definition of a rebuilding move is too strict. I just think you need to be able to filter out transactions somehow to make it a meaningful definition. That's why I included the notion of intent. Mind you, I'm assuming we all agree that defining transactions as "rebuilding moves" only makes sense when talking about teams who have been sitting at the bottom of the standings for more than a season or so.

I agree that "cap dump" and "rebuilding" moves don't have to be mutually exclusive.

Is it possible your definition of cap dump is too strict? Must it always include a high cap contract and a draft pick as a sweetener?

You misunderstand, I wrote that cap dumps are more along the lines of the marleau and darling trades. The examples provided have picks but the overall concept is the Same in terms of cap dump. I didn't say they must include picks.

Cap dump for me is having to devalue another asset in order for a team to accept the high salary player. Prospects or other valuable assets can be used as sweeteners as well, it's not restricted to picks.

I agree that notion of intent is important but the desire to move del zotto was not to free up cap space. He was an expiring contract and we had tons of cap space for that season. The main intent was to gain future assets which in this case was a pick.

 

[krutovsdonut]

is this the granlund thread?

 

[sting101]

The only thing I'll say about Granlund is I don't understand how you could even like him unless all you did was refer to the year-end stat sheet on TSN, or something.

His underlying stats absolutely suck, but you shouldn't even need them because the guy doesn't even pass the eye test. He was the softest piece of butter I've seen in a while, didn't drive play, and basically got all his minutes because he was effectively the last man standing.

Besides all that you should basically be disgusted the organization as a whole couldn't find a better player to occupy those minutes.

I hate to keep going on (and this is my last post on this) but there is merits to why Green kept putting him on the ice. Unlike Willie D i can respect Greens decisions as his smarts and rational tend to make sense. This article decifers some of the probable reasons..........adios amigos
Markus Granlund’s 19-goal season is the worst thing that could have happened to him

 

[sting101]

is this the granlund thread?

sorry dude.........i need........

 

[krutovsdonut]

this is cool. so teves and rafferty both accepted two way deals with the cup of coffee with the big team last year as the sweetener. to me that is leveraging your assets.

 

[TruGr1t]

I hate to keep going on (and this is my last post on this) but there is merits to why Green kept putting him on the ice. Unlike Willie D i can respect Greens decisions as his smarts and rational tend to make sense. This article decifers some of the probable reasons..........adios amigos
Markus Granlund’s 19-goal season is the worst thing that could have happened to him

I get it. Though I dunno if I'd really appeal to Green's authority.

Granlund's just clearly a 13th forward type that should be fighting for his spot in the lineup every training camp.

I agree the organizational handling of him did the player no favors. But Benning needed a win at the time and he was the closest thing they had.

It looks better if they can say they traded for a "20 goal scorer."

So he was given way too many opportunities when he was just another in a line of forgettable fringe players that have cycled through the organization in the past few years.

If he was treated like Leipsic, Schaller or Gagner I don't think anyone would even talk about him.

 

[krutovsdonut]

the remaining rfas are goldy and boeser. if you assume they saved boeser for last, but otherwise went in order of priority, maybe the canucks qualified goldy to retain his rights but do not expect to sign him.

we'll see i guess.

 

[Bitz and Bites]

Granlund is the type of player that teams who draft and develop poorly acquire to fill gaps in their lineup,hence he’s now an Oiler.

Oops,forgot this isn’t the Granlund thread.

Anyways,good to have Boucher back and look forward to see what Rafferty and Teves. can do next season.

 

[Askel]

Granlund has been better.

No Granlund is useless, Hansen had a terrible year in SJ, but at least he was a gritty defensive player. Granlund is soft, cant score and is bot exactly great defensevly

 

[krutovsdonut]

Anyways,good to have Boucher back and look forward to see what Rafferty and Teves. can do next season.

agreed. we haven't tried an ncaa graduate to ahl transplant since molino. i hope these work out better.

 

[Javaman]

You misunderstand, I wrote that cap dumps are more along the lines of the marleau and darling trades. The examples provided have picks but the overall concept is the Same in terms of cap dump. I didn't say they must include picks.

Cap dump for me is having to devalue another asset in order for a team to accept the high salary player. Prospects or other valuable assets can be used as sweeteners as well, it's not restricted to picks.

I agree that notion of intent is important but the desire to move del zotto was not to free up cap space. He was an expiring contract and we had tons of cap space for that season. The main intent was to gain future assets which in this case was a pick.

Ahh ok. Got it.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Sure am glad I got to read up on people's thoughts as to the recent signings of Teves, Rafferty, and Boucher.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Sure am glad I got to read up on people's thoughts as to the recent signings of Teves, Rafferty, and Boucher.

are there any stats out there on how ncaa graduating dmen tend to do in the ahl? do they get a rough ride? i'd imagine ahl guys who signed out of junior and have been slugging it out for a couple of years might not welcome the competition.

 

[Snatcher Demko]

The year he had 19 goals he should have been flipped for a 2nd round pick but the Canucks simply were never interested in a true rebuild.

 

[krutovsdonut]

looks like teves is a 2/1, not a true two way

 

[krutovsdonut]

echo for rafferty

 

[Hoglander]

Is it ok if, instead of calling Granlund trash, I call him compost?

 

[MS]

Jesus Christ.

Those two 24 y/o marginal NCAA prospects received one-way deals in 2020-21? Seriously?

That is awful. Imagine if we'd given Molino and Zalewski one-way deals.

Like, that is mind-numbingly, head-scratchingly bizarre. Close to the Mackenze Stewart contract in terms of stupidity.

 

[TruGr1t]

Jesus Christ.

Those two 24 y/o marginal NCAA prospects received one-way deals in 2020-21? Seriously?

That is awful. Imagine if we'd given Molino and Zalewski one-way deals.

Like, that is mind-numbingly, head-scratchingly bizarre. Close to the Mackenze Stewart contract in terms of stupidity.

The only way it makes some sense is if there was some spoken word agreement to get them here as FAs. But yeah, even then it's more amateur hour from our hockey ops department.

Anyone who thinks they're improving in terms of contract management isn't paying attention.

 

[BeardyCanuck03]

Jesus Christ.

Those two 24 y/o marginal NCAA prospects received one-way deals in 2020-21? Seriously?

That is awful. Imagine if we'd given Molino and Zalewski one-way deals.

Like, that is mind-numbingly, head-scratchingly bizarre. Close to the Mackenze Stewart contract in terms of stupidity.

You do realize that this doesn't mean anything cap wise, and can help the Canucks attract more NCAA UFA's going forward right?

 

[Lindgren]

Jesus Christ.

Those two 24 y/o marginal NCAA prospects received one-way deals in 2020-21? Seriously?

That is awful. Imagine if we'd given Molino and Zalewski one-way deals.

Like, that is mind-numbingly, head-scratchingly bizarre. Close to the Mackenze Stewart contract in terms of stupidity.

For a long time, going back to the Sbisa signing and then the Sutter extension, and continuing since then, it has seemed to me that management has succumbed to magical thinking. Sbisa is a top four defender. Sutter is a foundational player. Teves and Rafferty are future NHLers. What's the proof? Well, just look at their contracts!

I'm often reminded of a scene in Michael Moore's "Roger and Me," where a committee attempting to boost the economy of Flint tries to build a tourism industry by offering tax incentives to a major hotel.

All the big tourist destinations have a major hotel, so if we have one too, we'll attract tourists. All the good NHLers have big contracts, so if we give these players big contracts, they'll be good NHLers.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Jesus Christ.

Those two 24 y/o marginal NCAA prospects received one-way deals in 2020-21? Seriously?

That is awful. Imagine if we'd given Molino and Zalewski one-way deals.

Like, that is mind-numbingly, head-scratchingly bizarre. Close to the Mackenze Stewart contract in terms of stupidity.

you are complaining about money that does not impact the cap or the team in any way. those are good salaries if they get called up and otherwise they are contracts that can be fully buried.

i am critical of aquaman, but if he is willing to spend non-cap dough to maximize our chances at acquiring talent i am just fine with that.

it also looks to me like the canucks were pretty creative here to sign these guys. i appreciate the team management being creative.

 

[MS]

The only way it makes some sense is if there was some spoken word agreement to get them here as FAs. But yeah, even then it's more amateur hour from our hockey ops department.

Anyone who thinks they're improving in terms of contract management isn't paying attention.

You don't guarantee guys like this one-way contracts. Period. If that's what it takes you don't sign them.

Like, here is the list of age 23-24 defender college UFA signed in 2017 or 2018 - Rafferty and Teves' peer group from the previous two years.

Daniel Brickley
Jordan Gross
Michael Prapavessis
Kris Bindulis
Michael Kapla
Josh Healey
Vince Pedrie
Nick Desimone

Brickley was considered a real catch (a far better prospect than Rafferty/Teves) and is an average AHL defender. Desimone is a decent AHLer. The rest are below-average AHLers.

Like, this is the biggest jaw-drop I've had on a minor system move since the Stewart signing.

 

[MS]

You do realize that this doesn't mean anything cap wise, and can help the Canucks attract more NCAA UFA's going forward right?

you are complaining about money that does not impact the cap or the team in any way. those are good salaries if they get called up and otherwise they are contracts that can be fully buried.

i am critical of aquaman, but if he is willing to spend non-cap dough to maximize our chances at acquiring talent i am just fine with that.

it also looks to me like the canucks were pretty creative here to sign these guys. i appreciate the team management being creative.

I'm well aware it doesn't impact the cap if they're in the AHL.

I'm also well aware that you can sign actual impact AHL players to create a better development environment for your prospects for that amount. Utica has been screaming for a top AHL center and defender for years and we've refused to spend on that.

This is just a stunning waste of $1.4 million of the owner's money in 20-21. Players like this do not get contracts like this. It is absolutely mental to be giving these sorts of fringe prospect one-way deals.

Imagine being Ashton Sautner and working your way through the system for years for $100k and then having these worse prospects parachuted in ahead of you with one-way deals.