Canucks Off-season Thread - Canucks re-sign Teves, Rafferty, Boucher

[sting101]

Granlund's produced less points per game (in way more minutes per game) since the trade than Hansen did in 4 minutes less per game.

how did he do last year

 

[MS]

Granlund's produced less points per game (in way more minutes per game) since the trade than Hansen did in 4 minutes less per game.

Jannik Hansen in his last season as he washed out of the league was still scoring at ES (from 12 minutes on a 4th line) at basically the same rate as Granlund did in 17-18 minutes with the Sedins in his best year.

 

[sting101]

And Hansen has been better than Dahlen....

I think the point was that Granlund is not the sort of player you try to protect in an expansion draft.

fair but when a guy comes off scoring 19 goals and is 7yrs younger decisions have to be made?

 

[MS]

fair but when a guy comes off scoring 19 goals and is 7yrs younger decisions have to be made?

Markus Granlund was obviously complete garbage in the season he scored 19 goals and should never, ever have been a protection candidate.

 

[xtra]

So was the Gillis trade where he sent erhoff to buffalo for a 4th a rebuilding trade?

 

[Javaman]

fair but when a guy comes off scoring 19 goals and is 7yrs younger decisions have to be made?

Benning could have made the decision to move both of them off the roster.

As you pointed out, Granlund was coming off a 19 goal season. His trade value was as high as it was going to get. Should have moved him then for picks and/or prospects.

 

[sting101]

Markus Granlund was obviously complete garbage in the season he scored 19 goals and should never, ever have been a protection candidate.

Garbage is subjective.
i could consider the Sedins garbage in their role near the end
Granlund compared to Gaunce is a f***ing all star.

Who should they have protected MS?

I know Sbisa was tough one to lose?

 

[4Twenty]

fair but when a guy comes off scoring 19 goals and is 7yrs younger decisions have to be made?

Whenever you're analyzing garbage time games on the 3rd worst team in the NHL, you're going to make errors when you over-estimate the impact.

They just gifted him 16+ minutes for the past two seasons and he couldn't hit that 19 goals over 2 seasons.

The hilarious part of it all is that even in garbage time and offensive minutes his GF% is still below 40% where it always is.

 

[sting101]

Benning could have made the decision to move both of them of the roster.

As you pointed out, Granlund was coming off a 19 goal season. His trade value was as high as it was going to get. Should have moved him then for picks and/or prospects.

Draft picks outside the top50 are highly overrated.

 

[4Twenty]

Draft picks outside the top50 are highly overrated.

Jesus man.

What are you even arguing? Just wanting to argue or what?

If you could've got a 2nd round pick or even a 3rd round pick for Granlund, that's good business. Some teams even trade NHL players for 3rd round picks. An excess of picks makes the blow of trading other picks less, because you still have that currency.

Actually, to hell with this, I'm not debating the merits of Granlund on this forum ever again. The team just let him walk at age 26 (his prime), so obviously they realized they wasted 3 years on him too.

73 GF 111 GA. The guy has been garbage and that he was able to get raises every year and was given 16+ minutes is everything wrong with this regime.

 

[pgj98m3]

Draft picks outside the top50 are highly overrated.

Anchor contracts with aging players are highly underrated

 

[MS]

Garbage is subjective.
i could consider the Sedins garbage in their role near the end
Granlund compared to Gaunce is a ****ing all star.

Who should they have protected MS?

I know Sbisa was tough one to lose?

The discussions through that season literally went like this :

sting101 (and others) : Granlund has 19 goals! What a great trade!

rest of HF : Actually, his production - even despite an unsustainable sh% - is awful given his usage and linemates. He's a slow, soft ineffective player whose production is a complete mirage and who will crash back down to being a fringe player as better players like Boeser take the creamy minutes he was gifted.

Granlund crowd : 19 GOALZ! LOL SHINKARUK!

~~~~fast-forward a year when Granlund scores 5 non-EN ES points in 53 games and is completely useless~~~~

rest of HF : Hey, look. Exactly what we predicted would happen happened with Granlund.

Granlund crowd : HINDSIGHT!!

... so no, I don't really think garbage is subjective. It was 100% correct.

What we should have been doing is realizing that we had a pathetically thin roster with multiple open protection slots because we had so few players actually worth protecting, and targeted players other teams were giving away in a buyer's market to fill those spots. We could have made that Marchessault-Smith trade just as easily as Vegas did.

 

[Javaman]

The discussions through that season literally went like this :

sting101 (and others) : Granlund has 19 goals! What a great trade!

rest of HF : Actually, his production - even despite an unsustainable sh% - is awful given his usage and linemates. He's a slow, soft ineffective player whose production is a complete mirage and who will crash back down to being a fringe player as better players like Boeser take the creamy minutes he was gifted.

Granlund crowd : 19 GOALZ! LOL SHINKARUK!

~~~~fast-forward a year when Granlund scores 5 non-EN ES points in 53 games and is completely useless~~~~

rest of HF : Hey, look. Exactly what we predicted would happen happened with Granlund.

Granlund crowd : HINDSIGHT!!

... so no, I don't really think garbage is subjective. It was 100% correct.

What we should have been doing is realizing that we had a pathetically thin roster with multiple open protection slots because we had so few players actually worth protecting, and targeted players other teams were giving away in a buyer's market to fill those spots. We could have made that Marchessault-Smith trade just as easily as Vegas did.

I regret that I have but one like to give.

 

[sting101]

Whenever you're analyzing garbage time games on the 3rd worst team in the NHL, you're going to make errors when you over-estimate the impact.

They just gifted him 16+ minutes for the past two seasons and he couldn't hit that 19 goals over 2 seasons.

The hilarious part of it all is that even in garbage time and offensive minutes his GF% is still below 40% where it always is.

Look Granlund was a depth player with some versatility. Green would use him because he trusted him to make smart decisions with the puck not because he was some offensive dynamo.

Unfortunately we had a rsoter full of untrustworthy players and Granlund got too much ice time.

If he's 11-14 on your depth chart he can be a decent addition. Play him too high and he sucks. Same could be said for almost 80% of the organizational depth. Why people have to have a hate on for a guy who if was positioned at LW5 would be more effective than Jonah Gadjovich or Reid Boucher or Brendan Gaunce.

Whatever he's gone that means were getting deeper which is a positive. Don't care that much and find it funny how much he triggers people.

 

[4Twenty]

Look Granlund was a depth player with some versatility. Green would use him because he trusted him to make smart decisions with the puck not because he was some offensive dynamo.

Unfortunately we had a rsoter full of untrustworthy players and Granlund got too much ice time.

If he's 11-14 on your depth chart he can be a decent addition. Play him too high and he sucks. Same could be said for almost 80% of the organizational depth. Why people have to have a hate on for a guy who if was positioned at LW5 would be more effective than Jonah Gadjovich or Reid Boucher or Brendan Gaunce.

Whatever he's gone that means were getting deeper which is a positive. Don't care that much and find it funny how much he triggers people.

He triggers people because folks such as yourself in the face of mountains of evidence keep repeating the bolded when it's patently false.

He produces 11-14th forward production already, but he's getting borderline top 6 minutes to do it.

I'm glad he's on the team I hate the most now.

 

[PG Canuck]

Look Granlund was a depth player with some versatility. Green would use him because he trusted him to make smart decisions with the puck not because he was some offensive dynamo.

Unfortunately we had a rsoter full of untrustworthy players and Granlund got too much ice time.

If he's 11-14 on your depth chart he can be a decent addition. Play him too high and he sucks. Same could be said for almost 80% of the organizational depth. Why people have to have a hate on for a guy who if was positioned at LW5 would be more effective than Jonah Gadjovich or Reid Boucher or Brendan Gaunce.

Whatever he's gone that means were getting deeper which is a positive. Don't care that much and find it funny how much he triggers people.

Which almost seems like the exact reason anyone who likes Granlund, still defends him despite how bad he is.

 

[sting101]

He triggers people because folks such as yourself in the face of mountains of evidence keep repeating the bolded when it's patently false.

He produces 11-14th forward production already, but he's getting borderline top 6 minutes to do it.

I'm glad he's on the team I hate the most now.

considering i have watched R.Johnson Hordichuk Glass Oreskovich Tambellini Schroeder Bolduc Gaunce Megna Chaput Skille Sestito Dalpe in those roles the last 10yrs i dont think its patently false.

Anyway who cares.......i get it you guys hate Granlund

 

[MadaCanuckle]

Draft picks outside the top50 are highly overrated.

Why did we trade a 1st rounder ?

 

[4Twenty]

considering i have watched R.Johnson Hordichuk Glass Oreskovich Tambellini Schroeder Bolduc Gaunce Megna Chaput Skille Sestito Dalpe in those roles the last 10yrs i dont think its patently false.

Anyway who cares.......i get it you guys hate Granlund

Are you getting the point yet?

He's no better than that list of players, but those guys weren't getting top 6 minutes to produce what they did.

He's not playing the same roles as those guys, and I would imagine if he averaged 7 minutes a game his production would be right in line with players like Dalpe.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

 

[MS]

He triggers people because folks such as yourself in the face of mountains of evidence keep repeating the bolded when it's patently false.

He produces 11-14th forward production already, but he's getting borderline top 6 minutes to do it.

I'm glad he's on the team I hate the most now.

Granlund triggers me for a few reasons.

1) as mentioned above, we spent like 2 years giving a mountain of evidence of why this player sucked and it was just like banging your head on a wall saying 19 GOALZ.

2) the Granlund crowd constantly labelled anyone presenting these arguments as 'Shinkaruk lovers who are still bitter he was dealt' and as someone who never liked Shinkaruk much that drove me up the wall.

3) Granlund's play and results the past two years should have killed any debate on this. It's cut-and-dried that he sucks and the 16-17 arguments were proven wrong and we should all be on the same page here, so when it comes back up and we have to go through this cycle all over again it's a bit frustrating.

 

[sting101]

Which almost seems like the exact reason anyone who likes Granlund, still defends him despite how bad he is.

It's not that i like him. In fact i'm not a fan of his personality (or lack of it) nor really his game.

I just find it odd how much satisfaction it gives people to call him trash useless garbage etc..

At the end of the day everyone would love if we moved Shinkaruk for a 1st or Johnny Gaudreau but the reality is they were shopping him and Gaunce because they correctly identified 2 former 1st rounders that were going nowhere fast and were hoping to get a young defenseman back.

Weisbrod was a big fan of MG and the rest is history. For mangament they still have to fill out a roster and if you can upgrade at any level without sacrifice in terms of salary and age you do it. It's not like they didn't try for something else first.

So think about it this way.....it's not that i'm defending Granlund the great. It's that i'm defending the move for a better player who at 23 still had some upside and could give the organization more than what Hunter Shinkaruk was going to. The need to turn that into a disaster of epic proportions is comical for me

MS is right we should have been exploring ways to weaponize our protection spots and for the love of god targetting Gudbranson was such a disaster considering what flushed out and what we could have potentially flushed out once teams realized they were gonna lose good players for nothing.

 

[sting101]

Are you getting the point yet?

He's no better than that list of players, but those guys weren't getting top 6 minutes to produce what they did.

He's not playing the same roles as those guys, and I would imagine if he averaged 7 minutes a game his production would be right in line with players like Dalpe.

But he is better. Thats why he played more. Are you getting the point yet?

 

[sting101]

Good to hear for Utica.

Watched a bunch videos on Perron recently and he looks like a bit of a Burrows. If he can get a bit stronger and find the jamb to get inside instead of playing on the perimeter we could have a sleeper.

Rafferty looks supremely confident with a decent talent base which is good to see.

 

[TruGr1t]

The only thing I'll say about Granlund is I don't understand how you could even like him unless all you did was refer to the year-end stat sheet on TSN, or something.

His underlying stats absolutely suck, but you shouldn't even need them because the guy doesn't even pass the eye test. He was the softest piece of butter I've seen in a while, didn't drive play, and basically got all his minutes because he was effectively the last man standing.

Besides all that you should basically be disgusted the organization as a whole couldn't find a better player to occupy those minutes.