Post-Game Talk: Canucks def. Sens - 5-1 (Motte x 2, Miller x 2, Pettersson)

[DarrenX]

Motte playing at the level he is now was at the upper end of what might be expected of him when that trade was made. If Benning and Co saw it in him then credit to him, but from a fan's point of view that was a gamble.

Every transaction is a gamble. A draft pick is also a gamble. In fairness, we should just acknowledge this was one of Benning's wins.

 

[jd22]

Every transaction is a gamble. A draft pick is also a gamble. In fairness, we should just acknowledge this was one of Benning's wins.

Yep. I am not happy with the majority of Benning's moves, but this is an unequivocal win in my opinion. I am currently eating crow on it; I, too, was in the "at least a 5th" draft pick school of thought.

Would be nice to acquire a pick once in awhile though...

 

[ChilliBilly]

You missed the best part. Demko has the 29th best save percentage. Look who's sitting at 28, only 0.02 better...

don't think that includes last nights game
edit - after last nights game Demko is at .911

 

[Lupuls Grit]

Thomas Vanek for Tyler Motte was a very very under rated trade ! Motte needs to be part of our core. He is perfect bottom 6 player.
Jannik Hansen Esque

I remember how this board reacted to that trade...

 

[VanCanFanEDM]

I think this game was a pretty good encapsulation of how I view Chatfield. His skating, physical play and defensive IQ are NHL level, but his hands put a ceiling on him as he can make costly handling errors that can lead to turnovers and limits his transition and offensive game. Reminds me of Ryan Stanton.

I think if he maximises his strengths and maybe improves his handling a touch he can be a steady 5/6/7 dman who is good on the pk. However he could also find himself back in the AHL if things don't quite go his way. The fact that he's an RHD gives him a chance to stick around longer than Stanton.

Juolevi Can't skate as well and isn't as physical but his hands and hockey IQ are miles better which gives him the higher ceiling, although maybe only that of a 4/5 dman who can PK and fill in on the PP. Like an all situations Dman but not on the top units but is useful because of his versatility.

Both need NHL minutes to see how they progress but I'm happy to have them in a rotation until one of them really separates themselves. I don't think it's such a big deal that Juolevi was scratched after a game in which he scored. He obviously wants to play every day but he'll know he didn't get scratched for poor play but rather due to rotation. I personally don't think it's good for their development to take the approach that they play until they screw up and then get pulled. It can make these young players who are playing for a spot on the roster play nervous and afraid to make a mistake.

Chatfield and good skater makes me laugh.... how many times did he just fall down last night?

 

[Lupuls Grit]

Motte has had a great start to the season but he's still the type of 4th liner that can be found relatively easily/cheaply in free agency.

The market dictated that we probably should've gotten a pick of some sort out of Vanek, and we would've been better off swinging for the fences with a 5th or whatever than taking on a 4th liner at best.

No. We wouldn't have been better off accepting a 5th. It's shocking that anyone still takes this position with what we've seen out of Motte. No, it's not as easy as you suggest to find this type of player easily or cheaply in free agency. Perhaps you can prove me wrong by looking at the last three years of "cheap" free agents and comparing their production to Motte but no matter how much one hates Benning, the Vanek trade is not just a win for him, it's a huge win.

 

[Josepho]

No. We wouldn't have been better off accepting a 5th. It's shocking that anyone still takes this position with what we've seen out of Motte. No, it's not as easy as you suggest to find this type of player easily or cheaply in free agency. Perhaps you can prove me wrong by looking at the last three years of "cheap" free agents and comparing their production to Motte but no matter how much one hates Benning, the Vanek trade is not just a win for him, it's a huge win.

It's easy to find those types of players when you're actually good at your job. I'm expecting Hawryluk to have a similar (if not better) impact when he's available to play.

 

[Lupuls Grit]

It's easy to find those types of players when you're actually good at your job. I'm expecting Hawryluk to have a similar (if not better) impact when he's available to play.

Ok, so the player you reference hasn't played due to injury. I'm not sure anything in his past suggests he will be as valuable as Motte or even capable of holding down a steady role as a fourth line PKer. But surely someone can go through the last 3 years of free agency and show me just how easy it is to find such a player on the cheap! Or how easy it is to develop such a player with a 5th round draft pick. Really curious to see the results!

 

[Josepho]

Ok, so the player you reference hasn't played due to injury. I'm not sure anything in his past suggests he will be as valuable as Motte or even capable of holding down a steady role as a fourth line PKer. But surely someone can go through the last 3 years of free agency and show me just how easy it is to find such a player on the cheap!

Nic Dowd
Patrick Maroon
Josh Leivo
Dominik Simon
Dominik Kahun
Matt Nieto
Kyle Clifford

Or you can just throw whoever the f*** you want out there from your farm system like the Lightning have. I think MacEwen has quietly done a really solid job in the bottom 6.

Or how easy it is to develop such a player with a 5th round draft pick. Really curious to see the results!

That's definitely not what I said.

 

[Lupuls Grit]

Nic Dowd
Patrick Maroon
Josh Leivo
Dominik Simon
Dominik Kahun
Matt Nieto
Kyle Clifford

Or you can just throw whoever the f*** you want out there from your farm system like the Lightning have. I think MacEwen has quietly done a really solid job in the bottom 6.


That's definitely not what I said.

Yes, all of those players are cheap. All were signed as Free Agents. All are bottom 6 players. How many of them have been effective as Motte? How many are regular penalty killers and do so effectively? How many chip in offensively? Sure, a good GM can find excellent value players in free agency. Hell, that's a big part of their job and why we pay them. However, to turn an expiring asset like Vanek, who had been traded a gazillion times before and had disappointed many prior trade partners, for a player like Motte is a much better outcome than a 5th round pick. I'm ambivalent frankly about Benning but this trade is not a a reason to hate on him.

 

[4Twenty]

Motte is improved. But I guess people don’t remember when Schaller had 5 goals in 3 consecutive games at the start of last season?

That said, only having to play 6 teams with two of them being Edmonton and Ottawa I like his chances.

 

[Josepho]

Yes, all of those players are cheap. All were signed as Free Agents. All are bottom 6 players. How many of them have been effective as Motte? How many are regular penalty killers and do so effectively? How many chip in offensively? Sure, a good GM can find excellent value players in free agency. Hell, that's a big part of their job and why we pay them. However, to turn an expiring asset like Vanek, who had been traded a gazillion times before and had disappointed many prior trade partners, for a player like Motte is a much better outcome than a 5th round pick. I'm ambivalent frankly about Benning but this trade is not a a reason to hate on him.

I don't "hate on him" for the deal per se, I just don't really think this trade is some massive win for the organization like some are implying. I don't think the people who were disappointed that we didn't get a pick are in the wrong or whatever -- it's perfectly fair to prefer taking a ~1/60 chance that your 5th round pick develops like Sharangovich or whoever.

If Motte can "chip in offensively" like this for the rest of my season, I'll eat my words. But I think given his entire body of work here, that's fairly unlikely. There's also no way he's going to continue to shoot at 24%.

Definitely agree that he's good on the PK but I also don't think that's really an intricate skill worth paying a premium for. I think any fast toolsy player can do the job reasonably well.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Chatfield and good skater makes me laugh.... how many times did he just fall down last night?

To be fair, the ice was slippery.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Would you trade Motte right now for:
Ethan Keppen (late 4th)
Carson Focht (5th)
Arturs Silovs (top of the 6th)
?
That's who we actually drafted with the kind of picks (2019) people were hoping to get for Vanek.
If not, just admit Benning won a trade and move on already.

 

[Fatass]

It's easy to find those types of players when you're actually good at your job. I'm expecting Hawryluk to have a similar (if not better) impact when he's available to play.

Who is our pro scout responsible for “these guys”?

 

[Captain Bowie]

This is like watching a slow motion car crash

Who are you and why are you stalking me.

 

[Pip]

Would you trade Motte right now for:
Ethan Keppen (late 4th)
Carson Focht (5th)
Arturs Silovs (top of the 6th)
?
That's who we actually drafted with the kind of picks (2019) people were hoping to get for Vanek.
If not, just admit Benning won a trade and move on already.

Motte has been solid but this line of thinking is flawed imo. You are overwhelmingly likely to “win” choosing a 4th line player over a draft pick, especially after the first two rounds. However you give up on the upside should you hit on that pick.

We would likely “win” a trade trading a 3rd rounder for Kyle Turris but I imagine most would keep the pick.

As for Motte as a player, I like his hustle and I believe he is effective in a 4th line role. When he gets too many minutes he becomes a liability. Great work ethic and seems like a good guy.

 

[joelCAMEL]

Motte is improved. But I guess people don’t remember when Schaller had 5 goals in 3 consecutive games at the start of last season?

That said, only having to play 6 teams with two of them being Edmonton and Ottawa I like his chances.

I remember Schaller's goals but I do not remember him being an effective player. I wish Motte's work ethic rubs off on Virtanen, one day soon.

 

[cc]

Motte is improved. But I guess people don’t remember when Schaller had 5 goals in 3 consecutive games at the start of last season?

That said, only having to play 6 teams with two of them being Edmonton and Ottawa I like his chances.

even when Motte wasn't producing, he was hustling and hitting consistently for the team. I think it's been awhile since the Canucks had a player so consistently giving that level of effort every game. That's what truly makes Motte effective.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Motte is scoring with an offensive black hole in Jay Beagle as his Center. And he’s been doing it since the play ins. Guy deserves a lot of credit for producing without elite linemates and playing some tough minutes. He also brings a physical element that is really lacking on this team. Wish we had a whole line of Mottes.

 

[DL44]

I had the benefit of missing the 1st period and catching the 2nd and 3rd...

So I only saw the good Canucks last night... and it was great to see them flinging the puck around with confidence again.
D looked good... and transitioned and moved the puck well and with purpose.
Back checking was great in disrupting and getting sticks on seemingly every pass the Sens attempted... in a few minute span in the 3rd period it was almost comical that every attempted movement of the puck was altered by a Canuck stick or a check.. I couldn't imagine how frustrating it was to watch that squence from the other fan base perspective...
Hopefully Demko is able to use this and springboard these performances to those vs the top teams of the division...

On the other side... Really liked Josh Norris. He stood out... found himself with multiple scoring changes in a lot of danger areas... seems to have a good nose for space.

 

[DL44]

Good win but why has Green been playing Schmidt like a bottom pairing Dman these last 2 games?

What I don't understand is why does Schmidt get handed less minutes. He was the minute munching defenceman for Vegas.

I assume it's because he's had a tough transition to this team early on.
As lefty playing on the right - it helps bolster his offense... but less ideal for D.

So i think with Green moving him back to the left and stepping back a bit of his responsibility, it says - focus on finding and settling into a groove and finding your d game. (also D partner effect as well)

He'll ramp him back up after a few good team games.

 

[PM]

The only options that have contracts or are RFA's that are worth looking at are:
Col - Francouz
Dal - Khudobin
LA - Quick
Min - Talbot, Stalock
Mtl - Allen
Nsh - Ingram
Ott - Gustavsson
Pit - DeSmith
Stl - Husso
Van - Holtby
Was - Vanecek
Wpg -Berdin

4 of those guys in Gustavsson, Ingram, Husso, and Berdin are not NHL ready and who knows if they even pan out. The only guys on that list I take over Holtby are Khudobin, Allen, and Talbot. 2 of these guys have shown they are better as 1B as they cannot be 1A goalies. I'd add Vanecek if he can keep up his current play.

Now of those 12 teams listed, why would they select the goalie when they can select from:
Col - Graves, Jost, + 1 of Girard or Toews. If they go 4 d 4 f to protect both Toews and Girard, then theres: Graves, Compher, Kadri, Donskoi, Jost.
Dal - They'd take Khudobin (doubt they take Honka whos the only one worth mentioning)
LA - Maata (doubt they take Quick here)
Min - Dumba. If they go 4 d and protect Dumba, then theres: Foligno or Greenway
Mtl - 2 of Fleury or Weber or Mete (Allen could be an option here)
Nsh - Sissons, Kunin, Jarnkrok (I expect them to protect 4 d)
Ott - 3 of Connor Brown, Logan Brown, Tierny, Paul, Chlapik, Abramov
Pit - Tanev, Aston-Reese, Lafferty, Riikola (DeSmith is an option here)
Stl - 3 of Blais, Sundqvist, Barbashev, Perron, Sanford and 2 of Faulk, Scandella, Dunn
Van - They'd take Holtby (doubt they take MacEwen, Chatfield, Lind, Rafferty)
Was - 3 of Dillon, Kempny, Schultz, Jensen (depending on Vanecek's season, may be an option as so far no other young goalie has been, Holtby is going to be 32, Khudobin 35)
Wpg - 3 of Demelo, Beaulieu, Stanley, Niku

So pretty much every other team with a goalie worth considering has better players available at other positions asides us and Dallas. Comparing the player they'd get from us compared to Mtl and La, why select Allen or Quick to play backup while downgrading on a dman that would be one of their better options from any of the 30 teams?

Thanks for putting in that work. Maybe they do take Holtby after all. I’m not sure I would but your research makes it seem much more likely.

Edit: although if they take Khubodin, which they should, that makes less sense to take Holtby. If Holtby has a good year stats wise maybe they do and hope to re-sign him or flip him. If he’s still around .900 save percent it’s probably a waste of money.

 

[CantStoptheBrock]

Why are we still calling Motte a fourth-liner?

 

[Canuck Luck]

Thanks for putting in that work. Maybe they do take Holtby after all. I’m not sure I would but your research makes it seem much more likely.

Edit: although if they take Khubodin, which they should, that makes less sense to take Holtby. If Holtby has a good year stats wise maybe they do and hope to re-sign him or flip him. If he’s still around .900 save percent it’s probably a waste of money.

It probably is a waste of money but heres why they have no better option.
1. Khudobin is going to be 35 next year. How long can someone whos been a career backup continue playing at a top end starter level like he has these past 3 years? Can he even handle a starters load? He's never played more than 41 games in the NHL. Having Holtby is insurance for a year.
2. They get much better players from any other team than Van if they dont select a goalie from those teams. is having a better 1B worth the downgrade elsewhere in the lineup?
3. They shouldn't be anywhere near the top end of the cap after the draft unless they take on bad contracts to get better players (something teams are weary of doing because of what happened with Vegas)