Post-Game Talk: Canucks def. Leafs - 3-1 (Virtanen x 2, Horvat)

[vanuck]

Didn't catch the game today but it seemed like Green at least tried to put Virtanen out in the last few minutes to try and get him the hatty?

Virtanen - can hear the chant TRADE HIM NOW and, for one, I would not be against this. Showed very well tonight. Not only the goals but some great set ups. Seemed to be seeing the play better and less confused about where he should be and what he should do. Question becomes how can you this game out of Jake with any consistency. And that's a mystery right up there with understanding "dark matter'.

I don't think it should really be too surprising at this point that if you play JV more, he produces. We saw this last year when he got consistent top-9 minutes with some PP time and he went on to put up a career-high 36 points. Seems like the kind of guy who responds better to positive reinforcement rather than negative, and it's sad that Green seemingly still hasn't figured this out despite having coached him for years now.

 

[Lupuls Grit]

Didn't catch the game today but it seemed like Green at least tried to put Virtanen out in the last few minutes to try and get him the hatty?



I don't think it should really be too surprising at this point that if you play JV more, he produces. We saw this last year when he got consistent top-9 minutes with some PP time and he went on to put up a career-high 36 points. Seems like the kind of guy who responds better to positive reinforcement rather than negative, and it's sad that Green seemingly still hasn't figured this out despite having coached him for years now.

Positive reinforcement is great but it has its limits. Jake has had opportunity after opportunity after opportunity and, far too often, is completely invisible. How can Coach Green just pat him on the ass, say "that's ok, go get him next time" while demanding accountability from the other players? We all wish that Jake would consistently put in the kind of effort we saw last night. His failure to do so is not on Coach Green. It's on Jake. And it's a damn shame because the guy could be really valuable if he had the right mind set.

 

[HockeyWooot]

Just caught the game.

Demko- seems to be hitting his stride. Was excellent. While he didn’t steal the game for us, as we weren’t outplayed by TML, he was a big factor in the game making a number of critical saves.

Virtanen-aside from his two goals, was very effective and noticeable all night. There was a stretch of play last regular season where he was playing like this, on some level can understand why the Virtanen apologists want to keep him. Remarkably inconsistent, the most frustrating player because when he’s on he’s a real difference maker for this club.

Miller-good game. I like him at centre to be honest, brings a different element having another big strong presence in the middle.

Michaelis- speed is noticeable out there, I think there was a couple plays where he kept the Leafs hemmed in their own zone if I eq correctly. Had a major gaffe defensively but I suspect partly is adjusting to the NHL game. Hopefully we’ll see more of him. You do wonder if he could be a speedy 4C option down the line.

 

[DustyMartellaughs]

No posts yet about this game’s results on Sportsnet’s FB page. If the Leafs had won there’d be three.

 

[Dab]

Positive reinforcement is great but it has its limits. Jake has had opportunity after opportunity after opportunity and, far too often, is completely invisible. How can Coach Green just pat him on the ass, say "that's ok, go get him next time" while demanding accountability from the other players? We all wish that Jake would consistently put in the kind of effort we saw last night. His failure to do so is not on Coach Green. It's on Jake. And it's a damn shame because the guy could be really valuable if he had the right mind set.

Being a hardass for the sake of it is pointless at this point- feed him Minutes, get him some points, pump up his value and trade him.

 

[Dab]

No posts yet about this game’s results on Sportsnet’s FB page. If the Leafs had won there’d be three.

Game started after 10pm Eastern so for the Toronto media it didn’t exist

 

[I am toxic]

Positive reinforcement is great but it has its limits. Jake has had opportunity after opportunity after opportunity and, far too often, is completely invisible. How can Coach Green just pat him on the ass, say "that's ok, go get him next time" while demanding accountability from the other players? We all wish that Jake would consistently put in the kind of effort we saw last night. His failure to do so is not on Coach Green. It's on Jake. And it's a damn shame because the guy could be really valuable if he had the right mind set.

Since when has Green demanded accountability from vets? When?

 

[vanuck]

Positive reinforcement is great but it has its limits. Jake has had opportunity after opportunity after opportunity and, far too often, is completely invisible. How can Coach Green just pat him on the ass, say "that's ok, go get him next time" while demanding accountability from the other players? We all wish that Jake would consistently put in the kind of effort we saw last night. His failure to do so is not on Coach Green. It's on Jake. And it's a damn shame because the guy could be really valuable if he had the right mind set.

I don't disagree with the principle - that accountability should be enforced. On a good team with a strong culture and leadership, that should be the norm. It's the way good organizations are run, after all.

Thing is, it gets a little tougher to actually demand that from Virtanen when you see the utter lack of accountability for the poor play of clearly established veterans like Roussel, Sutter or Miller.

Green consistently gives the benefit of the doubt to the veteran. We've seen this time and time again in his NHL career as well as when he was coaching the Comets.

I'll also point out that typically whenever JV has been invisible or is playing like he's hesitant, confused or unsure of himself etc. it's usually after he's been banished to the press box or the 4th line. OTOH, he's basically almost always looked much better when rewarded with a bigger role playing higher up the lineup - whether with EP, Horvat or even on the 3rd line for a time with Gaudette.

Just something I've noticed, and hopefully it changes too because I completely agree that JV has the potential to be a useful player on this team. And that's coming from someone who absolutely hated that we drafted him at 6th OA. I want him to work out for us and think he can.

 

[m9]

Even if you're someone who doesn't think Virtanen (and Gaudette, too) is good enough or deserves opportunities up the lineup, you still need to put him in situations where he can be successful like on an offensive 3rd line. Strapping these guys with Beagles/Roussel/Eriksson etc is not putting them in a position where they can succeed.

And credit for Virtanen for playing a good game.. but I'm also not sure how repeatable the goals are. A power forward move that he's pretty much never done here and a horrible goal from the goaltender.

 

[Grantham]

My takeaway from this game:

Angry Edler is still easily our best defensemen. I had a grin watching this warrior show the youngsters how its done. QH take some damn notes.

Last game too, laying out big 6'3" Scheifele like he was a sack of potatoes...it set the tone. We're not just going to lay down and let you walk away unscathed.

You can actually see hesitancy from forwards on Edlers side. He plays with an edge and has old man Dave Babych strength.

Just rest him on some b2b games, and he can keep this up. But I know we'll never show this much foresight.

 

[MS]

My takeaway from this game:

Angry Edler is still easily our best defensemen. I had a grin watching this warrior show the youngsters how its done. QH take some damn notes.

Last game too, laying out big 6'3" Scheifele like he was a sack of potatoes...it set the tone. We're not just going to lay down and let you walk away unscathed.

You can actually see hesitancy from forwards on Edlers side. He plays with an edge and has old man Dave Babych strength.

Just rest him on some b2b games, and he can keep this up. But I know we'll never show this much foresight.

Every over-30 player on this team should have been load-managed to play only 45-50 of the 56 games in this season. But this team simply will not rest a veteran player. They will ride every single one of them into the ground.

 

[valkynax]

Such a classic.

There's something different about early Simpson's.

Bart selling his soul. The monorail. Homer needing to pee at the World Trade Center. Maggie shooting Mr. Burns. Max Power. Bort. Poochie.

Classics all of them.

Good story and clever script can overcome lack of trendy guest stars but not vice versa.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

Positive reinforcement is great but it has its limits. Jake has had opportunity after opportunity after opportunity and, far too often, is completely invisible. How can Coach Green just pat him on the ass, say "that's ok, go get him next time" while demanding accountability from the other players? We all wish that Jake would consistently put in the kind of effort we saw last night. His failure to do so is not on Coach Green. It's on Jake. And it's a damn shame because the guy could be really valuable if he had the right mind set.

IVirtanen has not received the same opportunity as Hoglander this year. Why did he bump Virtanen off top 9 and pp before game 1? Virtanen before last few games was playing with Beagle for 10 minutes a night. No one will produce in that situation. Virtanen has blame but he has been mishandled. Why sign him then play him on 4th line and take him off pp? Do Benning and Green not communicate. Play Jake with Horvat every game as well as 2nd pp unit for rest of season or at least trade deadline and see what he is. No benching or sitting out, stop messing with him and see what you have.

 

[Fatass]

IVirtanen has not received the same opportunity as Hoglander this year. Why did he bump Virtanen off top 9 and pp before game 1? Virtanen before last few games was playing with Beagle for 10 minutes a night. No one will produce in that situation. Virtanen has blame but he has been mishandled. Why sign him then play him on 4th line and take him off pp? Do Benning and Green not communicate. Play Jake with Horvat every game as well as 2nd pp unit for rest of season or at least trade deadline and see what he is. No benching or sitting out, stop messing with him and see what you have.

Imo Jake, again, came to a camp too heavy and not fit. Jake, imo, has lost weight, and played himself to a better fitness level since the season started. Jake can be a decent player when lighter than 220 and fit.

 

[4Twenty]

See what he is? It’s 2021. He’s been here 6 seasons.

This is what he is.

He gets taken off good lines because he’s usually where plays go to die. He has 2 decent games every 15. It’s never going to change.

This seasons lost so I’d play him up the lineup but I would not bring him back next season. Cut losses spend the cap on better fits.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

When we get world class goaltending and get 2 freebies against a backup goalie, we can compete with above average teams!

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

IVirtanen has not received the same opportunity as Hoglander this year. Why did he bump Virtanen off top 9 and pp before game 1? Virtanen before last few games was playing with Beagle for 10 minutes a night. No one will produce in that situation. Virtanen has blame but he has been mishandled. Why sign him then play him on 4th line and take him off pp? Do Benning and Green not communicate. Play Jake with Horvat every game as well as 2nd pp unit for rest of season or at least trade deadline and see what he is. No benching or sitting out, stop messing with him and see what you have.

I agree that they should play him on Bo's wing from here on out..He's just looked completely lost to me this season, especially in his own end, I don't know how many times he's worn the goat horns for failing to get the puck out of his own zone...

When news of his imminent trade to Anaheim became public, I'm sure it must have sent alarm bells ringing off in his head..Its time to shit , or get off the pot.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Even if you're someone who doesn't think Virtanen (and Gaudette, too) is good enough or deserves opportunities up the lineup, you still need to put him in situations where he can be successful like on an offensive 3rd line. Strapping these guys with Beagles/Roussel/Eriksson etc is not putting them in a position where they can succeed.

And credit for Virtanen for playing a good game.. but I'm also not sure how repeatable the goals are. A power forward move that he's pretty much never done here and a horrible goal from the goaltender.

Jake, when he's moving his feet, and being physical, doesnt really have to score..He creates enough havoc with the oppositions defenders, creating an opportunity elsewhere...The problem is consistency, bringing it one game in six isnt going to cut it.

I'm becoming less enamoured with Guadette, as time marches on..His skating is atrocious, and most players at the NHL level can take advantage of that...Unlike Jake, Gaudette always gives an honest effort , but he doesnt make a whole lot happen out there.