Confirmed with Link: Canucks acquire G Marek Mazanec from the New York Rangers

F A N

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Goalies that command seconds are typically NHL calibre goalies or have that experience. I find it strange that he was looking at these types of goalies when he should be searching for a third stringer.

Like I said, what Botchford said was that Benning went to Cloutier and or Clark for a list of goalies they recommend (Benning himself said that he asked both). Benning then called teams up about goalies on that list and some of those guys had hefty price tags. That was what was reported by Botchford. Again, I think it's a fair comment that Benning should have specified putting a list of goalies that they recommend that they think can be had for cheap, but Cloutier and Clark aren't exactly in the business of gauging a player's trade value either. I suppose you can argue that Benning could of simply not bothered asking about goalies that he thinks can be had for cheap, but at the same time, why not use the opportunity to gauge how other teams value the goalies in their system.

I doubt mazanec was on the list. Otherwise, this would have been a done deal a long time ago. I don't have the biggest problem with the price.

Isn't the main criticism here being that Benning should of made a move sooner? Based on the reports, it sounds like Benning asked for that list about 2-3 weeks ago. Benning said Mazanec was a guy Cloutier and Clark liked.
 

sting101

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I couldn't give a rats ass about this goalie bs.
Obviously Demkos camp wanted a shot and were putting on the pressure and had been. Benning got a couple Utica assets and a draft pick (he thought) It went a little sideways...whatever. injuries happen.

I am actually more annoyed at the DelZotto move...I think we could have waited for a better return and any pressure if it existed from Del Zotto should have been laughable. Of course Edler gets hurt right after
 
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F A N

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Aug 12, 2005
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I couldn't give a rats ass about this goalie bs.
Obviously Demkos camp wanted a shot and were putting on the pressure and had been. Benning got a couple Utica assets and a draft pick (he thought) It went a little sideways...whatever. injuries happen.

I am actually more annoyed at the DelZotto move...I think we could have waited for a better return and any pressure if it existed from Del Zotto should have been laughable. Of course Edler gets hurt right after

The Del Zotto move might be addition by subtraction. Not saying that he's not better than one of the 6 guys Green has been playing in Edler's absence, but our record with Del Zotto was notably terrible.
 

Bleach Clean

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I couldn't give a rats ass about this goalie bs.
Obviously Demkos camp wanted a shot and were putting on the pressure and had been. Benning got a couple Utica assets and a draft pick (he thought) It went a little sideways...whatever. injuries happen.

I am actually more annoyed at the DelZotto move...I think we could have waited for a better return and any pressure if it existed from Del Zotto should have been laughable. Of course Edler gets hurt right after


Benning is not about asset return value. That much has become abundantly clear.

Once you accept this fact, you'll just kind of gloss over that limitation in his GM functions.


Ferraro is almost always on point. This is why he's excellent.
Benning is a mess


Yes, he most certainly is Sting.

I like this deal because it shows, even at a minor level, just how incompetent Benning really is.

You could point to the deals for Kesler, Sutter and Gudbranson as greater examples of said same incompetence, yes, but that's the degree of incompetence and not the existence/absence of incompetence. His incompetence is present here.

The media is tearing him to shreds over this deal. That criticism is just deserved.
 
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WTG

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Wait the market for goaltenders is a 2nd/3rd rounder but the Canucks only managed to get a 6th for Nilsson?

I can't be the only one to be confused?.....
 
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Bleach Clean

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Wait the market for goaltenders is a 2nd/3rd rounder but the Canucks only managed to get a 6th for Nilsson?

I can't be the only one to be confused?.....


Market was probably a 2nd or 3rd for Benning. (The Benning adjusted price)


---------------------


I'm not sure if this has been mentioned: During the CGY/VAN game, Hrudey was commenting about the pressure placed on a goalie's lower body when fielding shot attempts, not just shots, and how that impacts their short-term health. This was the last game Markstrom played before being injured. In a way, calling what was about to happen.

I found that interesting just looking back on this.
 

Bleach Clean

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Yeah but why would Benning even try to trade for goalies worth 2nd/3rd rounders? I don't understand that quote at all.

How long is Demko out for? The entire season?


From TSN1040, it seemed that Benning was given a list of goalies by Clark, called around and that was the price. Well, everyone but Mazanec.

I don't think this says anything about how long Demko will be out.
 
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DonnyNucker

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Yeah but why would Benning even try to trade for goalies worth 2nd/3rd rounders? I don't understand that quote at all.

How long is Demko out for? The entire season?
I think this was addressed earlier. He asked Clark to put together a list of goalies and he called on all of them. I guess the price ranged from a 2nd to a 7th. Certain goalies were out of their price range
 
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TryamkinPleaseReturn

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I think this was addressed earlier. He asked Clark to put together a list of goalies and he called on all of them. I guess the price ranged from a 2nd to a 7th. Certain goalies were out of their price range
I think part of the confusion is that Nilsson was (Very) recently traded for a 6th round pick. Nilsson was an NHL caliber goalie. If he was only worth a 6th, and the goalies Benning was looking at were worth 2nds and 3rds, that would seem to imply they are much more valuable than an NHL caliber backup goalie. So why would Clark give Benning a list of high level NHL goalies/elite goalie prospects to pursue when we only need a stop gap/AHL depth?

The answer seems to be that the goalies on Clark's list are not *four rounds* more valuable than Nilsson, but instead that the GMs Benning spoke to have so little respect for Benning's ability that they are demanding absurd prices from him - knowing that he'll probably pay them, based on past evidence.

To the most recent example, look at the Nilsson trade. This summer, Nilsson was looking better than ever and won a gold medal for Sweden with a .954. Then playing behind the worst defence in the league he was hung out to dry game in game out. He was traded (along with a core, glue guy for our AHL team) for a 6th. Plus Benning took a minor cap dump back. Until today, Nilsson's save percentage since the trade is .933.

Benning got taken advantage of in that trade, and that is easily one of Benning's better trades.
 
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Bad Goalie

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I couldn't give a rats ass about this goalie bs.
Obviously Demkos camp wanted a shot and were putting on the pressure and had been. Benning got a couple Utica assets and a draft pick (he thought) It went a little sideways...whatever. injuries happen.

I am actually more annoyed at the DelZotto move...I think we could have waited for a better return and any pressure if it existed from Del Zotto should have been laughable. Of course Edler gets hurt right after


"Demko's camp was putting on the pressure." WHAT pressure can they apply? He is in the 3rd year of an ELC. He can't go anywhere. He is at the mercy of the club that holds his contract. His job is to play where he is assigned and wait until his time comes up. He would have been in Vancouver no later than Fall 2019. He could also have played in Vancouver after the TDL when the roster numbers don't matter. Maybe they would have found a better deal for Nilsson then. The crybaby could have waited it out for another month or so. Then none of this would ever have happened in the first place. He has been a great keeper down here, but he has also been a piss ant when he wanted to be. The kid has a real attitude about himself. Not that that's a bad thing either. Cockiness in good athletes is not a new thing.
 
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DonnyNucker

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I think part of the confusion is that Nilsson was (Very) recently traded for a 6th round pick. Nilsson was an NHL caliber goalie. If he was only worth a 6th, and the goalies Benning was looking at were worth 2nds and 3rds, that would seem to imply they are much more valuable than an NHL caliber backup goalie. So why would Clark give Benning a list of high level NHL goalies/elite goalie prospects to pursue when we only need a stop gap/AHL depth?

The answer seems to be that the goalies on Clark's list are not *four rounds* more valuable than Nilsson, but instead that the GMs Benning spoke to have so little respect for Benning's ability that they are demanding absurd prices from him - knowing that he'll probably pay them, based on past evidence.

To the most recent example, look at the Nilsson trade. This summer, Nilsson was looking better than ever and won a gold medal for Sweden with a .954. Then playing behind the worst defence in the league he was hung out to dry game in game out. He was traded (along with a core, glue guy for our AHL team) for a 6th. Plus Benning took a minor cap dump back. Until today, Nilsson's save percentage since the trade is .933.

Benning got taken advantage of in that trade, and that is easily one of Benning's better trades.
You are terribly missing the point. Nilsson was moved to accommodate Demko. He was a complete flop here and a 6th round pick was a surprise. I’d take Bachman over Nilsson in a flash. The org deserves hard criticism for signing Nilsson but not for tossing him
 

TryamkinPleaseReturn

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You are terribly missing the point. Nilsson was moved to accommodate Demko. He was a complete flop here and a 6th round pick was a surprise. I’d take Bachman over Nilsson in a flash. The org deserves hard criticism for signing Nilsson but not for tossing him
To be clear, Nilsson is not someone I think we should have held on to. We didn't need him at any point, except in the event that all our other goalies and prospects were injured. Which only occurred around the time Benning traded him.

However, he looked like a flop the way basically every goalie looks like a flop behind arguably the worst defense in the NHL. But he was at minimum an NHL caliber goalie.

I get your point about moving him to accommodate Demko, and that's why I say it was one of Benning's better trades. I like that he was moved. And the trade had a good purpose (although the plan was very poorly thought out). Also it was good that we got back some kind of draft pick back instead of giving up extra draft picks. I actually think it was an impressive trade, for Benning.

However, one of the points I made was he was an NHL caliber goalie that returned a 6th. Benning then was looking for basically an AHL caliber goalie and allegedly the prices GMs gave him were 2nds/3rds. That doesn't really make sense unless we believe that the GMs were expecting to take advantage of Benning... which we've seen happen over and over. For comparison, Benning got a barely AHL caliber goalie for a 7th.

I also disagree about Bachman over Nilsson, I definitely think Nilsson is easily the better choice. You know his combined NHL save percentage on all teams except Vancouver is .911?
 
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DonnyNucker

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To be clear, Nilsson is not someone I think we should have held on to. We didn't need him at any point, except in the event that all our other goalies and prospects were injured. Which only occurred around the time Benning traded him.

However, he looked like a flop the way basically every goalie looks like a flop behind arguably the worst defense in the NHL. But he was at minimum an NHL caliber goalie.

I get your point about moving him to accommodate Demko, and that's why I say it was one of Benning's better trades. I like that he was moved. And the trade had a good purpose (although the plan was very poorly thought out). Also it was good that we got back some kind of draft pick back instead of giving up extra draft picks. I actually think it was an impressive trade, for Benning.

However, one of the points I made was he was an NHL caliber goalie that returned a 6th. Benning then was looking for basically an AHL caliber goalie and allegedly the prices GMs gave him were 2nds/3rds. That doesn't really make sense unless we believe that the GMs were expecting to take advantage of Benning... which we've seen happen over and over. For comparison, Benning got a barely AHL caliber goalie for a 7th.

I also disagree about Bachman over Nilsson, I definitely think Nilsson is easily the better choice. You know his combined NHL save percentage on all teams except Vancouver is .911?
I agree with most of what you are saying...but we don’t know who was on “Clark’s” list. It would appear that it was fairly comprehensive if some of these goalies are worth a 2nd. Obviously they weren’t players that we would target. Could Benning have gotten a 4th or 5th for Nilsson if he waited? Probably. But it was Demko time and it sucks he got injured right away. You are right, they should have played it smarter. They gambled that they wouldn’t get two injuries and they lost
 

4Twenty

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They made this trade AND signed Michael Leighton to an NHL deal.

These guys couldn't manage themselves out of a wet paper bag.
 
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FroshaugFan2

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Dec 7, 2006
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Was there a reason they just didn't sign Leighton before they traded for Manzanec?
At the time I just assumed they liked Mazanec a lot more and had no interest in Leighton on the NHL deal.

Now I have no idea why they didn't just sign Leighton. Hopefully this isn't a sign of more goalie injuries.
 

Bubbles

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At the time I just assumed they liked Mazanec a lot more and had no interest in Leighton on the NHL deal.

Now I have no idea why they didn't just sign Leighton. Hopefully this isn't a sign of more goalie injuries.

It's like all these moves should have been done a month ago.

Are we trying to beat the Flyers for the NHL record of most goalies played in a season? :sarcasm:
 

m9

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I assume they didn't want to risk losing Leighton on waivers at the time which would leave them in an even worse spot.

Doesn't explain why they would sign him now, though. Maybe another team tried to poach him?
 

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