Can't wait to read the new CBA

[WC Handy*]

What term would you prefer then that best describes a player rights being controlled from 18 to 30 years old.??

Being drafted into a labour force he never signed up for, often forced to work in a foreign country for the player. Is at the mercy of the owners every wish that now owns him, with no opportunity to leave and seek employment elsewhere.

This might be the most amusing thing I've read... EVER!

Being draft int a labour force he never signed up for?

So we ignore the fact that every player that gets drafted dreams of playing in the NHL some day? And we also ignore the fact that being drafted by the NHL isn't quite like being drafted by the Army. The drafted player can go pump gas if he doesn't want to play hockey. He's not going to prison if he doesn't show up.

Often forced to work in a foreign country?

Again, the player is not forced to play.

Is at the mercy of the owners every wish?

Yea.. I just don't know how they do it. They get paid millions to play a game and practice at noon a few days a week. OH THE HORROR!

That now owns him?

Funny... I honestly wasn't aware that Keith Tkachuk was working on Bill Laurie's cattle farm on his off days.

With no opportunity to leave and seek employment elsewhere?

Who again is stopping the player from going to work as a gas station attendant or from being a real estate agent or from even playing in the NHL?

All this horrible horrible things are things the players agreed to when they signed the last CBA. If they wanted something different they should have held out for it.

 

[topshelf331]

What term would you prefer then that best describes a player rights being controlled from 18 to 30 years old.??

Being drafted into a labour force you never signed up for, often forced to work in a foreign country for the player. Is at the mercy of the owners every wish that now owns him, with no opportunity to leave and seek employment elsewhere.

Its the first thing that came to my mind with all things considered ..

First off, they did sign up for it. 2nd they are well rewarded. 3rd the owners arent making them do anything they dont want to do. 4th The owners dont own the player, they own the team. 5th they can seek employment elsewhere. In fact another owner has to pay the penalty if the player leaves. When i sign contracts at my job, if i leave early, i pay the penalty.

 

[Mess]

Then let them. I am not certain I want a player more concerned with the bottom line than with the win/loss record. Sure the League might lose a few players (I suspect less than 5-percent will jump ship) but there are more than enough hungrier players to fill those slots. Russia (the only league offering high salaries) cannot continue to pay extremely large salaries. If they do so, they will be right where the NHL is today in a few short years. NHL players will be well compensated, have excellent playing conditions, a great benefits package, excellent insurance and medical coverage, highly specialized training, and a very, very good pension plan. That is more than other leagues can offer.

If the NHL is suppose to be the best league should it not contain the best players ..

What happens to talented UFA sitting on the sidelines looking in as the Hard Cap has not given them a place to play now. The roster spot they once occupied is no taken up by a AHLer instead in cost cutting or affordability.

What about RFA that are forced to sit out in contract disputes, because the CBA says the best an owners has to do is offer you a pay cut to continue earning and pay cheque .. If that forces the player to play in another league or country till that is resolved ..

What is the incentive for young Euro's like Ovechkin and Malkin to even wander over to this side when certainly their home country can offer them the max 850k that the NHL is offering in the new CBA.

As a fan how does this benefit me, if the price of my ticket remains the same regardless who the owner throws on the ice ??

 

[WC Handy*]

What happens to talented UFA sitting on the sidelines looking in as the Hard Cap has not given them a place to play now. The roster spot they once occupied is no taken up by a AHLer instead in cost cutting or affordability.

THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED IN ANY OTHER SPORT!!!

 

[mackdogs*]

If the NHL is suppose to be the best league should it not contain the best players ..

Thunderstruck already addressed this. As long as the NHL is the highest paid league in the world it will contain the best players.

What happens to talented UFA sitting on the sidelines looking in as the Hard Cap has not given them a place to play now. The roster spot they once occupied is no taken up by a AHLer instead in cost cutting or affordability.

Laughable that you think a GM would let this happen in a capped world. Experts will be hired for each team to deal with cap issues like this. A UFA will not sit out an entire season due to poor management planning.

What about RFA that are forced to sit out in contract disputes, because the CBA says the best an owners has to do is offer you a pay cut to continue earning and pay cheque .. If that forces the player to play in another league or country till that is resolved ..

You answered this one yourself, they are welcome to go elsewhere if they don't like their offer.

What is the incentive for young Euro's like Ovechkin and Malkin to even wander over to this side when certainly their home country can offer them the max 850k that the NHL is offering in the new CBA.

Ummm, how about when they outgrow their rookie status and can begin making crazy money? Wow, imagine actually planning something ahead of time.

As a fan how does this benefit me, if the price of my ticket remains the same regardless who the owner throws on the ice ??

As a Toronto fan it doesn't, which is a lot of the problem with these boards. Spoiled fans are throwing hissy fits now that they can't buy a team. I'm one of the people who thinks all 30 teams having a chance to compete, and win the cup, is a good thing. I'm sorry you don't see it that way. The answer here is a league that has 30 successful franchises. Fans will come out to watch games if they feel that their team can win on any night.

 

[SENSible1*]

If the NHL is suppose to be the best league should it not contain the best players ..

What happens to talented UFA sitting on the sidelines looking in as the Hard Cap has not given them a place to play now. The roster spot they once occupied is no taken up by a AHLer instead in cost cutting or affordability.

The "talented UFA" can simply choose to sign for more money than he'll make anywhere else in the world and continue his career. Simply because he won't make what players made under the old CBA does not mean he won't be able to find a job. The market is adjusting...deal with it.

What about RFA that are forced to sit out in contract disputes, because the CBA says the best an owners has to do is offer you a pay cut to continue earning and pay cheque .. If that forces the player to play in another league or country till that is resolved ..

The RFA will still make more in the NHL than anywhere else or he would make the same decision he always had available to ply his trade in Europe. You seem incapable of wrapping your head around the fact that the market can take a massive correction, yet still allow the NHL to be the highest paying league in the world.

What is the incentive for young Euro's like Ovechkin and Malkin to even wander over to this side when certainly their home country can offer them the max 850k that the NHL is offering in the new CBA.

Now here you may have a minor point. The only problem is that the reason for these restrictions lies mainly with the NHLPA. The NHL will ensure that they are the highest paying league in the world at all categories.

In addition, all players must pass through the entry level system to get at the bigger money later, so choosing Europe for SLIGHTLY higher short-term money will actually cost young players money in the long run.

As a fan how does this benefit me, if the price of my ticket remains the same regardless who the owner throws on the ice ??

The owners will be putting the same level of talent on the ice.

You seem bothered by the fact that they will be making considerably less money. Unless you are a player, his relative or an agent, I can't imagine why this should matter to you.

 

[Tiki]

What term would you prefer then that best describes a player rights being controlled from 18 to 30 years old.??

Being drafted into a labour force you never signed up for, often forced to work in a foreign country for the player. Is at the mercy of the owners every wish that now owns him, with no opportunity to leave and seek employment elsewhere.

Its the first thing that came to my mind with all things considered ..

Your reaching so bad here its not even funny. Pathetic would be a better term.

Name one player that is "FORCED" to work in the NHL. Even if you are drafted, you can chose not to sign with that team for two years and re-enter the draft, or decide not to play in the NHL.

Its still a free market world. The player could chose the AHL, ECHL, UHL or any other league. They also have the choice of going to Europe to play. The only thing forcing them to go to the NHL is the money involved. The last time I checked earning money was never the right of someone in slavery.

The players have the freedom to play where ever they please, but if they decide to play in the NHL, they have certain rules to abide by.

 

[shakes]

Hmmm.. come to think of it, if no team can really out-bid another team anymore, you might just see players chose teams based on where they would like to play.. childhood dreams etc. I wonder how many have had a childhood dream to play in Pittsburg or Carolina as opposed to Montreal, Toronto, Detroit, New York?

 

[HockeyCritter]

If the NHL is suppose to be the best league should it not contain the best players ..

And for the most part it will - - - sure some European born players who are near the end of their careers might elect to stay in Europe. Good for them. They made oodles of money in the NHL, had a brilliant career, and go home to play out the last few years of the career.

What happens to talented UFA sitting on the sidelines looking in as the Hard Cap has not given them a place to play now. The roster spot they once occupied is no taken up by a AHLer instead in cost cutting or affordability.

That player will have to decide what's important to him; playing in the NHL and (possibly) winning a championship or raking in as much dough as he can. Believe it or not, there are actually some players who willingly (and despite PA complaints) reduced their contracts for a chance at winning or to stay with their team.

You seem to think that the players are required to make a life worth’s of salary in a few short years. Most NHLers have careers last five to ten years meaning they are going to be a very spry mid-30-ish player when they retire. One would think that the player would have enough foresight to plan for his future by making wise investments and parleying his playing career into future business opportunities.

What about RFA that are forced to sit out in contract disputes, because the CBA says the best an owners has to do is offer you a pay cut to continue earning and pay cheque .. If that forces the player to play in another league or country till that is resolved ..

Those were the terms, negotiated by both the PA and the League, of the previous CBA. If the players took affront to that clause, perhaps it would have been in their best interest to amend the old CBA to remove or change it. If this clause is still problematic, then the PA needs to negotiate “friendlier†terms.

Again, no one is “forcing†the player to sit out. He makes that decision on his own (well, with input from his agent and the PA). The player knew the terms and conditions of becoming an NHL player, if not he that’s his own fault. Regardless of how much or how little a player makes, it is in his own best interest to be as informed as possible and that means not relying on what others tell you but to find out for yourself.

And how is a player forced to take a pay cut? The terms of the old CBA required owners to offer a minimum raise each contract cycle.

What is the incentive for young Euro's like Ovechkin and Malkin to even wander over to this side when certainly their home country can offer them the max 850k (plus bonuses) that the NHL is offering in the new CBA.

That is certainly their prerogative (and as a Capital fan I would be very upset if Ovechkin does not play in the NHL). However, if highly drafted European players were to see the long-term picture they would realize that long term they would be better off playing in the NHL. Sure, Ovechkin and Malkin might make a “paltry†$850k per season for their first three seasons in the NHL, but what can they make beyond that? Certainly more than they would be able to make in Russia (which cannot sustain the salaries they have been dolling out for much longer).

Again, all the NHL has to do is offer a little more money than Europe to entice players to come to North America (see previous post regarding other benefits to the NHL).

This might be an issue for lower ranked European players - - but then again, I think a fourth line forward or third pair defenseman would make more in the NHL when compared to Europe.

As a fan how does this benefit me, if the price of my ticket remains the same regardless who the owner throws on the ice ??

Ticket prices are driven by the market . . . . your ticket prices are so high because that is what the market will bear.


EDIT: Because English is a tricksy language . . . . (corrected spelling errors - I think I got them all),

 

[GSC2k2*]

Kovalchuk made $ 3 mil last year playing in his home country .. What happens if he choses that again in the future ?? Crosby is considering Europe even if a new CBA and NHL season is ahead .. Why would his agent be suggesting that ??

Salary caps that encourage players to seek work outside the NHL has a direct effect on NHL game and its the Salary Cap that makes that an issue ..

You have no reliable basis whatsoever to make a claim of Kovalchuk's salary in Russia. Any report of his salary in the media has been based on "published reports". Typical circular media reporting.

Why would Crosby's agent suggest that? Hmm, why why why??! I don't know, um, maybe to influence the negotiations and keep the PA from selling out entry level players like they do EVERY SINGLE TIME. "Protecting the guys coming after us", my heinie.

 

[HockeyCritter]

What happens to talented UFA sitting on the sidelines looking in as the Hard Cap has not given them a place to play now. The roster spot they once occupied is no taken up by a AHLer instead in cost cutting or affordability

THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED IN ANY OTHER SPORT!!!

Heck, even without a cap, older more expensive players are usually pushed aside for the younger, cheaper guys . . . . that’s the nature of sports.

 

[Mess]

First off, they did sign up for it. .

Nope wrong .. A young player can opt out if he is under 18 .. However once 18 he is in the draft like it or not almost like in War times when young men and woman are given no chioce at times to fight for their country if a draft exists.

Crosby can't say don't draft me I'm fine I will go and play here in Montreal ..

2nd they are well rewarded..

Based on who's opinion .. Yours ???

If the CBA did not have restrictions many players would be rewarded more

3rd the owners arent making them do anything they dont want to do..

Other then force them to work and live in a city they do not want to at times. Be told when to eat and when to sleep and when to practice or play.

4th The owners dont own the player, they own the team...

How so ?? The player is not free at anytime at any age to leave on his own free will and join another team in the NHL. Even if you are drafted and unsigned or your contract expires you are still bound to that team until 30 years old or the owners releases you.. What is you definitrion of own then ??

5th they can seek employment elsewhere..

Where Europe??

At a rate less then he would make if he just went one state or province over.

Once Crosby gets drafted by a team say in the US .. Can he say no thank you I am only 18 and I would prefer grow up and work in my own country. Can any player say no thank you Nashville or Carolina, I would rather play in a big city like New York or LA and head off to greener pastures seeking fortune and fame.

In fact another owner has to pay the penalty if the player leaves. ..

Not true again .. That choice remains in the hands of the owner that owns you .. Another team can make you an offer however as a RFA your own team has every right to retain you and keep your rights .. Thats not a player option or opposing team option.

When I sign contracts at my job, if i leave early, i pay the penalty.

When you took that job ..

Did you send them a resume and make it your choice if they offered you a job to take it or not ??

Could you also offer your sevices freely before that time to any other company in your line of work ??

Are you forced to leave your own Country to earn a living ??

Even as you say .. If you sign a contract, you still can break it, if you are not happy, you just might have to pay a financial penalty .. Does that also exist for a Hockey player .. Can he say tear up my contract .. Here is my signing bonus back I am going elsewhere ??

 

[GSC2k2*]

What term would you prefer then that best describes a player rights being controlled from 18 to 30 years old.??

Being drafted into a labour force you never signed up for, often forced to work in a foreign country for the player. Is at the mercy of the owners every wish that now owns him, with no opportunity to leave and seek employment elsewhere.

Its the first thing that came to my mind with all things considered ..

Hmm, I call that a rather crafty move by the PA. Messenger, you know very well that the UFA restrictions work extremely well in favour of the players. It creates a very long period where guys are arbitration eligible and prone to receiving QO after QO.

I put aside your execrable reference to slavery. I assume you are just being an idiot on purpose to stir up things in this thread so as to distract people from the thrashing you and your cronies were receiving on the "LA Times Rumour .." thread on the issue of NHL financial disclosure.

 

[SENSible1*]

Does Messenger remind anyone else of those kid's punching toys with the sand in the base that just kept popping up no matter how many times it got clobbered?

 

[King'sPawn]

Crosby can't say don't draft me I'm fine I will go and play here in Montreal ..

Yes, he can. GMs/scouts conduct interviews with many of the prospects. Crosby can say flat out "don't draft me, I won't sign with your team. I want to play with Montreal." Granted, a team can still draft him, but he can choose not to play.

Based on who's opinion .. Yours ???

If the CBA did not have restrictions many players would be rewarded more

This is nuts. They're getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars, up to the millions, to play hockey. It's something they want to do, and a good portion of them get sent to the upper 1% of income in the United States!

Other then force them to work and live in a city they do not want to at times. Be told when to eat and when to sleep and when to practice or play.

I'm no longer taking you seriously after this hyperbolic BS, but I'm compelled to finish answering your thoughtless diatribe.

How so ?? The player is not free at anytime at any age to leave on his own free will and join another team in the NHL. Even if you are drafted and unsigned or your contract expires you are still bound to that team until 30 years old or the owners releases you.. What is you definitrion of own then ??

Players can refuse to sign if they so wish. They can even leave the country. They have their own home. They're not shoved into a dark room, taken out only to practice and play, and having hockey gear thrown on them while they're kicking and screaming. Do you seriously believe otherwise?

Where Europe??

At a rate less then he would make if he just went one state or province over.

So while you're arguing they're not being adequately paid, they're being paid better than anywhere else in the world. Got it.

Even as you say .. If you sign a contract, you still can break it, if you are not happy, you just might have to pay a financial penalty .. Does that also exist for a Hockey player .. Can he say tear up my contract .. Here is my signing bonus back I am going elsewhere ??

Much like a horrible movie, I couldn't watch anymore and decided to skip to the end.

But you know what? Yes, he can do exactly that.

But you know what the fact of the matter is? These guys are freaking professionals, and know far ahead of time they may have to go to some locale they would rather not go. They're not yanked away from their families at the tender age of five, much unlike what really happened in slavery, that you disgustingly compared to playing hockey.

And sports isn't the only job where you travel to various locations beyond your control. There are traveling salesmen... contractors... engineers... PILOTS... Oh, and there's this other job called the military. Soldiers live overseas in a country wrought with people who want them dead or gone. They're away from their families for 6-12 months at a time.

And guess what? Hockey players get paid more than them.