Speculation: Canes roster building thread 2016/17

[Boom Boom Apathy]

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[TheOllieC]

Oiler fans need to realize that whatever value they try to create in a package for Faulk is irrelevant if it doesn't fit needs. He's not even going anywhere anytime soon..but a half season of Draisaitl playing like a first liner is not enough to pull Faulk, as much as they want to believe he'll be a big, steady, 1C down the line. Too much risk right now. RNH is injured a lot and hasn't shown that he can be a consistent first liner. Hall is great but why jump at that as an option if this team is moving their most valuable piece, and needs a center more than a winger?

BUT Bob Stauffer said Eberle + for Faulk, so what do I know?

 

[Havoq]

I could see, and even potentially welcome, a Drai for Faulk trade in a couple of seasons from now, but it would be contingent on a scenarios playing out:

1. Drai continues to progress and show he is and will likely be a #1C

2. Our D prospects continues to progress and we clearly are able to consider moving Faulk without kneecapping our Blueline

3. We still have yet to fill the #1C role and Edm is still looking for a #1 RHD.

Until then, I don't think it makes sense for us.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

^

Logical and I think realistic. That should be the canned response for future Justin Faulk to Edmonton threads. Cut out the unrealistic trade ideas and I think some of the hyperbole coming back the other way would stop.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

^

Logical and I think realistic. That should be the canned response for future Justin Faulk to Edmonton threads. Cut out the unrealistic trade ideas and I think some of the hyperbole coming back the other way would stop.

It won't work. I tried countless times posting that the Canes D right now is not experienced enough or proven enough to move Faulk, but that in a year or two, if these guys do show they are for real, that may change. It hasn't helped.

My view is that RF is not looking to trade Faulk right now but if a team came and blew his doors off with an offer (which won't happen), he'd move him. If they came and offered "fair value", he'd probably hang up the phone as he's not looking to move him. I could be way off base here, but that's how I see it.

 

[Roboturner913]

As to the Slavin/Hanifin thing, if Hanifin reaches anywhere near his projections we're looking at a Chris Pronger/Rob Blake type of player.

I don't think Slavin is ever going to be that. But I think he's probably a player you're very happy to have as your #2/#3 guy for a long, long time. Seems to me he's probably within a couple years of being a finished product whereas we might not see Hanifin start to peak for another 5 years or so.

Fleury, I don't know, he is a total wildcard to me.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

It won't work. I tried countless times posting that the Canes D right now is not experienced enough or proven enough to move Faulk, but that in a year or two, if these guys do show they are for real, that may change. It hasn't helped.

My view is that RF is not looking to trade Faulk right now but if a team came and blew his doors off with an offer (which won't happen), he'd move him. If they came and offered "fair value", he'd probably hang up the phone as he's not looking to move him. I could be way off base here, but that's how I see it.

It gets drowned out by the Draisaitl/Hall + 4th overall pick stuff that gets posted. Oiler fans then respond to that hyperbole with their own hyperbole.

I agree 100%, btw. Hanifin, Pesce and Slavin are too unproven at the moment to justify trading Faulk for something realistic. Furthermore, permanently relegating Lindholm to a wing position without giving him an extended opportunity at center is a little too impatient of a move for my liking.

 

[NotOpie]

It won't work. I tried countless times posting that the Canes D right now is not experienced enough or proven enough to move Faulk, but that in a year or two, if these guys do show they are for real, that may change. It hasn't helped.

My view is that RF is not looking to trade Faulk right now but if a team came and blew his doors off with an offer (which won't happen), he'd move him. If they came and offered "fair value", he'd probably hang up the phone as he's not looking to move him. I could be way off base here, but that's how I see it.

You sir, win the prize. It is all about the Canes definition of value. We are a better team with Faulk and it would take a lot of good pieces for us to be a better team without him.

As such we have no incentive to move him, none whatsoever.

 

[Roboturner913]

You sir, win the prize. It is all about the Canes definition of value. We are a better team with Faulk and it would take a lot of good pieces for us to be a better team without him.

As such we have no incentive to move him, none whatsoever.

the funny thing is, the main Oiler fan agitator in that thread accidentally wandered into this concept from his own POV and still managed to let it go right over his head.

It's like a collective sense of entitlement over there. Very, very strange.

 

[AD Skinner]

If Hanifin or any Canes player got anywhere close to the effect that having Chris Pronger had on teams I'd be ecstatic. There was a stretch of time where he turned whatever team he was on into contenders pretty much by himself. A big part of that I think was a mean streak that I haven't seen out of Hanifin so far. He may develop that as he matures and gets more comfortable with the NHL game.

 

[DougieSmash]

Andrew Ladd, Loui Eriksson and Andrew Shaw, please.
Profit.

 

[Roboturner913]

To be sure, I think his upside is probably more Blake than Pronger, but it's really hard to project Hanifin because historically you don't have a lot of 6-3, 6-4 big-bodied guys with his skillset. Erik Johnson was supposed to be that kind of player but he was a bust for the longest time and is only just now getting his game together in his late 20s. Bouwmeester was supposed to be that, too, but he's never really gotten there either.

 

[DaveG]

Hanifin doesn't seem to have the nasty of either Blake or Pronger to his game, really can't effectively compare the three IMHO. JayBo or Nieds is probably the best comparison for him.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Of any of the Canes D prospects, who do you think "may" be able to develop a bit of a "mean streak" to him? Not to the level of a Pronger, but just in general. Fleury maybe? I don't see it with Faulk, Hanifin or Slavin. Pesce maybe?

 

[MinJaBen]

Of any of the Canes D prospects, who do you think "may" be able to develop a bit of a "mean streak" to him? Not to the level of a Pronger, but just in general. Fleury maybe? I don't see it with Faulk, Hanifin or Slavin. Pesce maybe?

Murphy.

 

[DaveG]

Of any of the Canes D prospects, who do you think "may" be able to develop a bit of a "mean streak" to him? Not to the level of a Pronger, but just in general. Fleury maybe? I don't see it with Faulk, Hanifin or Slavin. Pesce maybe?

Faulk has a bit of one, not a major one but I've seen him pissed off a few times and just lay some massive hits on people. The Florida game in his 2nd season comes immediately to mind there. Thing with Faulk is that's just not his default mode or temperment, someone HAS to do something to get that out of him and I think most teams have figured out that you don't want to do that.

Fleury MAYBE, we'd have to see how he looks at the NHL level for a decent period of time to say for sure. It wasn't really his game in junior but it's not like it doesn't exist for him either.

Carrick and Lowe definitely have to potential to have one and use it, in fact Lowe's already shown that but his upside is probably bottom pair guy which isn't good news for cracking our defense long-term with Slavin, Hanifin, Fleury, and Carrick all showing top 4 upside if not better.

Murphy.

I lol'd

 

[RodTheBawd]

I'm hoping Pesce develops one. Right now he just seems to be excited that he's playing so much in the NHL.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Faulk has a bit of one, not a major one but I've seen him pissed off a few times and just lay some massive hits on people. The Florida game in his 2nd season comes immediately to mind there. Thing with Faulk is that's just not his default mode or temperment, someone HAS to do something to get that out of him and I think most teams have figured out that you don't want to do that.

That's my view also. Faulk doesn't really have one without something happening that really pushes him over the edge. Not quite the same.

Fleury MAYBE, we'd have to see how he looks at the NHL level for a decent period of time to say for sure. It wasn't really his game in junior but it's not like it doesn't exist for him either.

Didn't he get suspended for something this past season? Or am I "misremembering" that?

Carrick and Lowe definitely have to potential to have one and use it, in fact Lowe's already shown that but his upside is probably bottom pair guy which isn't good news for cracking our defense long-term with Slavin, Hanifin, Fleury, and Carrick all showing top 4 upside if not better.

Yeah, Lowe has one but I wasn't considering him as part of this as I don't ever see him cracking the Canes lineup.

 

[DaveG]

Lorentz got one that I can recall.

 

[MinJaBen]

I could see, and even potentially welcome, a Drai for Faulk trade in a couple of seasons from now, but it would be contingent on a scenarios playing out:

1. Drai continues to progress and show he is and will likely be a #1C

2. Our D prospects continues to progress and we clearly are able to consider moving Faulk without kneecapping our Blueline

3. We still have yet to fill the #1C role and Edm is still looking for a #1 RHD.

Until then, I don't think it makes sense for us.

Problem with this idea is that in a couple of years, the contract situations are totally changed. Draisaitl may be on a very good or bad contract, who knows because Edmonton gets to negotiate that instead of us if we had him, plus Faulk would only have two years remaining on his extremely good contract, making it much less effective as a valuation tool in our favor. If you want to deal Faulk for the most team altering effect, the time to do that is now when his value is at its peak (probably, unless someone thinks he is going to win a Norris in the next two years ). Plus if you wait two years, our window of opportunity for cheap defense coupled with Jordan's super shutdown line may be closed as Nesty and Nordy will be on new contracts and our three uber kids on defense are going to need new contracts as well.

 

[geehaad]

Why does any defenseman need to be nasty and mean?

 

[Joe McGrath]

Why does any defenseman need to be nasty and mean?

Because they aren't playing ****ing tiddlywinks.

Seriously though it would be nice to have some physicality on the back end to get guys away from the front of the net.

 

[RodTheBawd]

I can't believe that's even a question after watching these ******* for the last decade.

 

[Vagrant]

Why does any defenseman need to be nasty and mean?

Because if we have ambitions of getting back into the playoffs, we're going to get hammered on the forecheck and have no response to players taking liberties in our crease. It was shameful the amount of times we'd see goaltender interference last year and watching these kids skate intentionally oblivious back to the bench.

This is where I feel like the analytics fail us. No matter how strong of a possession pairing you have out there, things will inevitably turn ugly at some point. Imagine matching up against the Rangers in the playoffs and having Chris Kreider bowl over your goalie every time down the ice. We've got nobody to make him pay for that.

And it seems to some that physical has been conflated with slow and ineffective. Like those of us that would prefer to see more backbone on the defense are asking to bring Gleason back. The concept of having a physical defense and having a good defense aren't mutually exclusive concepts. It would just be a nice change to not see our goalies get snow showered every stoppage.

 

[geehaad]

So, they need to be physical, keep the crease clear, and react in kind when the opposition takes liberties with our players.

Got it.