Cancell the season then court approval for replacement players.

[joechip]

That kind of decision on the part of fans, on general principle, might occur in parts of Canada, but it doesn't stand a prayer of working in most US markets. Not for hockey. The owners know it too.

Well, I know that there is no pro hockey of any kind within 200 miles of my house. Ergo, if Tampa started playing again with replacements I'd prolly catch more games then I do currently (i.e. zero), just so I can watch some hockey.

There are plenty of markets in the U.S. where hockey fans simply have no good or any alterntative.

Ta,

 

[joechip]

I think it could happen here in Chicago too. After all, who would be able to tell the difference?

or Pittsburgh or Washington or Florida or Buffalo or Phoenix or Carolina or Anaheim or Columbus or Atlanta. To think the players making league average or lower wouldn't cross the line is just plain myopic.

Ta,

 

[arnie]

And remember what happened to those players that crossed the line. They have never been allowed to join the NFLPA and therefore have never played another game of football with the NFL. I think most players will think of that before they cross the line.

If you are a fringe player with a career expectancy of 3-5 years, you don't care about the future. Every year you don't play, you lose money and new draftees are developing, ready to take your place. The bottom third of he NHL players would come back in a second, as would plenty of veterens who have only a few years of career left.

 

[Schlep Rock]

One thing I think we are all forgetting is... the players are locked out, not on strike like in the NFL.

I think the NHL has realized if they do attempt to use replacement players, it might be with a restriction that no union member can be used since the NHL is locking the union out, not vice versa. The way the courts would look at it is, if the NHL wants to play hockey they can lift the lock out, they're refusing entry to play not the players refusing to play.

 

[SENSible1*]

Where are they going to get the players from?

As understand the IIHF rules on transfer - unless the players come back to the regular NHL under their previous contracts, then they are bound to play in Europe for this season. So that takes 380 possible players out of the equation.

No foreign nationals need apply - the immigration rules bar that.

That leaves a pretty shallow pool of replacement players to stock the US teams and then what happens in Canada? There is no impasse declaration procedure. Replacements are banned in BC and Quebec and it may not be possible to bring the Ontario and Alberta Boards onside in any event even if you could play with replacements.

Do not forget the AHL and ECHL players are members of the PHPA so they would have to leave their union and they would not be getting back in.

My post had nothing to do with the logistics of getting the product on the ice, but only concerned the implication for players who crossed the picket line and the most appropriate fan response.

We have all heard your opinion on the logistics plenty of times.

 

[Stefan_Latulippe]

And remember what happened to those players that crossed the line. They have never been allowed to join the NFLPA and therefore have never played another game of football with the NFL. I think most players will think of that before they cross the line.

Joe Montana et John Elway were the firsts to cross the line......Yep! Short carreers for them.

 

[eye]

Where are they going to get the players from?

As understand the IIHF rules on transfer - unless the players come back to the regular NHL under their previous contracts, then they are bound to play in Europe for this season. So that takes 380 possible players out of the equation.

No foreign nationals need apply - the immigration rules bar that.

That leaves a pretty shallow pool of replacement players to stock the US teams and then what happens in Canada? There is no impasse declaration procedure. Replacements are banned in BC and Quebec and it may not be possible to bring the Ontario and Alberta Boards onside in any event even if you could play with replacements.

Do not forget the AHL and ECHL players are members of the PHPA so they would have to leave their union and they would not be getting back in.

One of your weaker arguments to date W. IMO, the NHL will declare an Impasse and start next season with between 15 and 20 teams with the remaining teams being suspended for the time being. The teams will be rostered by currrent AHL and NHL players while many ECHL players fill in at the AHL level and so on and so on. ECHL, UHL and CHL players are not playing under guaranteed contracts so player movement is something they are all used to and will relish the chance to make a few more bucks for as long as possible. The PHPA issue is really not an issue or a problem if and when players should decide to return. Visa's and player transfers are an issue that I'm sure lawyers are already working on for all leagues concerned. A little political pressure on both sides of the border to help get people back to work doesn't sound too unreasonable.

It's going to be ugly with unprecedented player movement and you can add the WHA into this mix as well.

I still can't believe that our beloved NHL players have let us all down like this. Many people are out of work, many agents will have to find alternative work, the NHL will lose up to half their loyal fans and at least half of their gross revenues and that's even with an Impasse declared.

On the positive side the NHL will be coming back at AHL level ticket prices or at least much closer to that level than their current level and Chris Pronger will never get to play for that 10 million he signed for and will likely have to settle for that 5 million he said he would never play for.

 

[AlexGodynyuk]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't American teams have to use American players if they are going to go for replacements?
That's a whole lot of sub-NHL quality American players, we'll be lucky if it's even close to AHL quality. Impasse is not really an option in my opinion.
Especially if only 15-20 teams suit up, how do you expect players to cross over and come back if half of their teams aren't even their to cross over to (or if their Canadian like most and their team is American).

 

[Lil' Jimmy Norton*]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't American teams have to use American players if they are going to go for replacements?
That's a whole lot of sub-NHL quality American players, we'll be lucky if it's even close to AHL quality. Impasse is not really an option in my opinion.
Especially if only 15-20 teams suit up, how do you expect players to cross over and come back if half of their teams aren't even their to cross over to (or if their Canadian like most and their team is American).

In my mind the current NHL'ers are yesterdays garbage and just to show them my absolute disgust I will go watch whoever wears the uniform of my beloved Toronto Maple Leafs. I support my team and this CBA negotiation has once again driven home the point that today's NHL player is only concerned about $$$$ and they could care a less about the fans. This replacement inactment will cause such a calamity within the NHLPA that it will fold like a 5 dollar tent. Good Riddens Goodenow your done like dinner !!!!

 

[AlexGodynyuk]

In my mind the current NHL'ers are yesterdays garbage and just to show them my absolute disgust I will go watch whoever wears the uniform of my beloved Toronto Maple Leafs. I support my team and this CBA negotiation has once again driven home the point that today's NHL player is only concerned about $$$$ and they could care a less about the fans. This replacement inactment will cause such a calamity within the NHLPA that it will fold like a 5 dollar tent. Good Riddens Goodenow your done like dinner !!!!

The Canadian teams will be fine. I'm sure that with AHL and equivalent talent, they can fill 6 (well, 5 since Vancouver can't because of labour laws) teams and maintain a decent talent level.
It's the American teams, are you telling me there are enough Americans to fill 24 teams with replacements and still maintain a decent level of play so as to draw a crowd?

 

[snakepliskin]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't American teams have to use American players if they are going to go for replacements?
That's a whole lot of sub-NHL quality American players, we'll be lucky if it's even close to AHL quality. Impasse is not really an option in my opinion.
Especially if only 15-20 teams suit up, how do you expect players to cross over and come back if half of their teams aren't even their to cross over to (or if their Canadian like most and their team is American).

one thing to remember here is that we have a government that is very pro-business right now and bending a few immigration type laws for operation purposes will not be that big of a hurdle to cross. there will be a lot of legal wars in this process but the decks are stacked toward the owners if they pursue this tack and really have the determination to do it. it will be difficult but that does'nt mean it can't be done. and if i were a 2nd 3rd or 4th line player i would be very concerned about the path the union leaders are headed down. It is past time for some guys to raise some hell-seriously it is past time.

 

[Lil' Jimmy Norton*]

The Canadian teams will be fine. I'm sure that with AHL and equivalent talent, they can fill 6 (well, 5 since Vancouver can't because of labour laws) teams and maintain a decent talent level.
It's the American teams, are you telling me there are enough Americans to fill 24 teams with replacements and still maintain a decent level of play so as to draw a crowd?

I know there is enough minor pros and Canadians with permanent residence status that could fill out 24 teams easy, heck I play in a beer league with 2 guys who played in the Central Hockey League last year who are fresh out of US college and they are eager to get another crack. By the way they are outstanding hockey players.

 

[HockeyCritter]

Let’s just say the league goes the impasse route and wins . . . does that not mean that there would be a CBA in place therefore no need for a lockout? Could not the PA then decided to either honor the CBA or strike in favor of a better one? If they strike, what is to prevent players from “crossing†the line and honoring their contract?

(Well, that is what I heard on the FAN yesterday, or was it Saturday?)

EDIT: Because it helps if I add all the words. . .

 

[john g]

I love the game and not the players, so I'd still attend, view, support etc........

Given the choice would I watch subpar talent play the game I love over watching spoiled brats sit at home, ***** and whine about pennies (to them) and play in beer leagues. Easy choice.

 

[Drury_Sakic]

If a new CBA is in place via the courts, the NHLPA either resumes playing, or must go on strike...

 

[regdunlap7]

And remember what happened to those players that crossed the line. They have never been allowed to join the NFLPA and therefore have never played another game of football with the NFL. I think most players will think of that before they cross the line.

That's not true. Doug Flutie crossed the line and 17 years later is still playing in the NFL.

 

[Other Dave]

I know there is enough minor pros and Canadians with permanent residence status that could fill out 24 teams easy, heck I play in a beer league with 2 guys who played in the Central Hockey League last year who are fresh out of US college and they are eager to get another crack. By the way they are outstanding hockey players.

Most Canadians studying in the US do not have 'permanent residence' (ie Green Card) status, but rather F-1 or J-1 visa status, and so would be ineligible to work for the NHL.

 

[xtra]

I think that vancouver will have a team as the NHLPA is not a registered union in BC so therefore they wouldnt have any rights if what i have heard is correct.


But the good thing would be taht the Canadian teams would be really stacked and we could see a playoffs with 6 of the 8 team being canadian and the final 4 all canadian.

 

[Other Dave]

I think that vancouver will have a team as the NHLPA is not a registered union in BC so therefore they wouldnt have any rights if what i have heard is correct.

The Code Guide on the LRB-BC site seems to suggest otherwise. According to this guide, since the NHLPA and the NHL have entered into a CBA, the PA has been voluntarily recognized by the NHL as the bargaining agent for the players, and so would be so recognized in BC.

I welcome an alternative interpretation.