Rumor: Canadiens not getting fair offers for Max Pacioretty

[admiralcadillac]

Doesn't matter what he's "trying" to do. It's the end result that matters.
He wasn't "trying" to trade Subban, but ended up doing it anyways. So the argument is still valid and very much relevant.

He was trying to trade Subban, which is why he did.

 

[Rubi]

I keep seeing this thread pop up at or near the top of the TR & FAT forum and have so far refrained from adding to the 1000+ posts.

I can't anymore....

All I have to say about "Canadiens not getting fair offers for Max Pacioretty" is.... so?
Would you expect something different given the circumstances? Do bears not shit in the woods?

 

[417]

Thanks for bringing up these examples. They all support my argument. RoR is another example like Skinner: a player who got a very poor return because the Sabres felt pressure to sell him before they'd have to pay his bonus, and because it was made public that his relationship with the team was strained.

I'm not sure I agree the Sabres got a poor return for ROR, but that's also not what i'm debating.

We're discussing what the Habs/Marc Bergevin have done to, according to you, lessen the return on a potential trade for him, by leaking various rumors.

I mean, obviously, the return for Max Pacioretty will be less than what he could of potentially had at the trade deadline (based purely on his contractual status) but the Habs haven't said or done anything, as you suggested, to lessen his value.

Karlsson will almost certainly not receive a trade package anywhere near to in line with a player who has been clearly the best defenseman in the league the past 5 years because everyone knows how cheap and terrible the owner is.

Yes, exactly, there is tangible evidence that the Ottawa Senators, because of their owner, take inferior deals because of "money in/ money out".

But there is no tangible evidence that the Montreal Canadiens have done anything to lessen Pacioretty's value.

Plenty has leaked about Pacioretty. Plenty that goes beyond "shopping the player." Details like this are a bigger story because it's the Habs, but it will have the same effect of lowering the return.

Yes, plenty has leaked about Pacioretty. In fact 5 weeks before there was a story suggesting the Habs informed Pacioretty he was going to be traded as soon as possible, there was a story that both sides were working on an extension.

That obviously didn't get as much media play, because it couldn't be spun negatively.

Whether or not it's true? Who the hell knows...and whether or not those leaks come from the Montreal Canadiens? Again, who the hell knows.

It's not because Eklund makes a post saying the Habs are trading Pacioretty "any minute" now like he did a few weeks ago, that it's true.

You're confusing media rumor frenzy with reality.

Usually those two things are independent from each other - but apparently not when it comes to the Habs.

Right now, people are going out of their way to make anything about the Habs into a negative story....All i keep hearing is that the Habs and Bergevin are driving Pacioretty's value into the ground, yet the only people I see doing this is the media and fans.

It's mid-August and a player who apparently has been shopped since December 2017, is still a member of his team. That doesn't tell me they're trying to drive his value down...

If anything, it tells me they value him quite high.

Otherwise, he'd be gone.

 

[Deficient Mode]

I'm not sure I agree the Sabres got a poor return for ROR, but that's also not what i'm debating.

We're discussing what the Habs/Marc Bergevin have done to, according to you, lessen the return on a potential trade for him, by leaking various rumors.

I mean, obviously, the return for Max Pacioretty will be less than what he could of potentially had at the trade deadline (based purely on his contractual status) but the Habs haven't said or done anything, as you suggested, to lessen his value.


Yes, exactly, there is tangible evidence that the Ottawa Senators, because of their owner, take inferior deals because of "money in/ money out".

But there is no tangible evidence that the Montreal Canadiens have done anything to lessen Pacioretty's value.


Yes, plenty has leaked about Pacioretty.

Whether or not it's true? Who the hell knows...and whether or not those leaks come from the Montreal Canadiens? Again, who the hell knows.

It's not because Eklund makes a post saying the Habs are trading Pacioretty "any minute" now like he did a few weeks ago, that it's true.

You're confusing media rumor frenzy with reality.

Usually those two things are independent from each other - but apparently not when it comes to the Habs.

There are people in the Habs organization leaking these things to the media, even if it's not Bergevin himself. They are hurting his trade value to do so. And the media reporting them are often on the opposite end of the reliability spectrum from Eklund. Many of them don't want to see Pacioretty leave either. You can ignore them if you want.

 

[admiralcadillac]

There are people in the Habs organization leaking these things to the media, even if it's not Bergevin himself. They are hurting his trade value to do so. And the media reporting them are often on the opposite end of the reliability spectrum from Eklund. Many of them don't want to see Pacioretty leave either. You can ignore them if you want.

It doesn't have to be people in the habs organization. It can be people on the other end of trades and negotiations, or the player agents.

 

[417]

There are people in the Habs organization leaking these things to the media, even if it's not Bergevin himself. They are hurting his trade value to do so. And the media reporting them are often on the opposite end of the reliability spectrum from Eklund. Many of them don't want to see Pacioretty leave either. You can ignore them if you want.

How do you know this?

Why would the Habs purposely shoot themselves in the foot by leaking negotiations with their own players??

Ask yourself who would benefit more from having it leaked that the Canadiens informed Pacioretty they weren't negotiating a deal with him any further and would look to trade him ASAP?

Who benefits from that being public knowledge?

The player & his agent?

or the team?

 

[Edgy]

He was trying to trade Subban, which is why he did.

LOL really? Because Bergevin says differently



https://www.tsn.ca/bergevin-insists-he-s-not-shopping-subban-1.514353

Bergevin AND Molson say differently:
Bergevin has no intention of trading Subban - Sportsnet.ca

Should I go on?

 

[admiralcadillac]

LOL really? Because Bergevin says differently



https://www.tsn.ca/bergevin-insists-he-s-not-shopping-subban-1.514353

Bergevin AND Molson say differently:
Bergevin has no intention of trading Subban - Sportsnet.ca

Should I go on?

...and yet your post doesn't make sense because he traded him.

 

[Negan4Coach]

Skinner has a NMC. Not a good comparison IMO.

Wait wait, I'm seeing things like this in the thread

If max wants to be a pain in the ass and refuse to sign places and makes himself hard to trade i hope he does start the year in montreal. Acts like a whiney baby has a terrible year and screwes himself over in his contract year. IMO his cancerous attitude is what cost us subban. I cant ****ing wait till hes kicked to the curb.

which to me means he at least has an NTC. Are you saying an NMC is so much better than a NTC? Isnt the NTC like half the league?

I'm sure the Canes would give up Faulk for him...but no doubt we are on his list.

 

[417]

Wait wait, I'm seeing things like this in the thread



which to me means he at least has an NTC. Are you saying an NMC is so much better than a NTC? Isnt the NTC like half the league?

I'm sure the Canes would give up Faulk for him...but no doubt we are on his list.

Pacioretty has no trade protection in his current contract

 

[Edgy]

...and yet your post doesn't make sense because he traded him.

So which one is it now? You said it's different because he's trying to trade Paccioretty when he wasn't trying to trade Radulov and Markov and now it doesn't matter that he said he's not trying to trade Subban but actually did it?

The point stands. Bergevin is an idiot and he's already messed up the Pacioretty situation beyound any possible redemption.

It seems all you want to do is defend Bergevin, period. Go away now, I'm done with you.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

So realistically, can the Pens build something around Brassard for Patches? I'm not including Sprong or Maatta either.

 

[Omar]

So realistically, can the Pens build something around Brassard for Patches? I'm not including Sprong or Maatta either.

Having a center would be nice but the time for a 30 year old center has passed

 

[Negan4Coach]

Pacioretty has no trade protection in his current contract

So then its erroneous on all counts that he is "making himself hard to trade"

 

[417]

So then its erroneous on all counts that he is "making himself hard to trade"

I think the context of that quote comes from the rumor that the Habs had traded Max Pacioretty to the LA Kings, who were then granted the ability to sign Pacioretty to an extension before making the trade official.

They apparently offered him 6 x 6, which he turned down.

Again, these are just rumors, nothing confirmed.

So the "making himself hard to trade" is just based on his apparent unwillingness to negotiate an extension at this point.

 

[417]

So realistically, can the Pens build something around Brassard for Patches? I'm not including Sprong or Maatta either.

How about you keep Brassard too...

Call it Riley Sheahan for Max Pacioretty, seems fair?

 

[admiralcadillac]

So which one is it now? You said it's different because he's trying to trade Paccioretty when he wasn't trying to trade Radulov and Markov and now it doesn't matter that he said he's not trying to trade Subban but actually did it?

The point stands. Bergevin is an idiot and he's already messed up the Pacioretty situation beyound any possible redemption.

It seems all you want to do is defend Bergevin, period. Go away now, I'm done with you.

You aren't making sense.

Radulov and Markov were clearly never getting traded at that point, and Pacioretty is a trade asset at a time where the team is looking to change. Subban was also traded at a time where the team was looking to shake things up, lying about not wanting to trade him is stupid but maybe logical in hindsight. After all, we're criticizing opposite info getting leaked in the case of maxpac. They aren't comparable situations, again. You asking me "which is it" just doesn't make sense because they aren't contradictory viewpoints.

I'm also not defending anything other than my position, I just find it stupid to assume that Pacioretty will get lost for nothing no matter how stupid Bergevin is. He isn't staying with a bad team onthe final year of his contract, so at worst he gets traded at the deadline.

"I'm done with you" is really childish.

 

[RealityBytes]

You don't know what the GM's offered Bergevin and what Bergevin is asking in his high asking price. Were talking about a proven 30 NHL goal scorer on a great AAV for one year and he is still many years away from 35.

So with your logic, Sakic should of sold low in the 2017 off season cause the other GM's interested at that time were offering whatever they wanted for Duchene? Sakic was stupid for waiting eh?

What do you think Patch gets in the 2018 NHL deadline? Worse than what he gets today? Possible but not likely. I'm willing to bet on probability. Once the draft passed and deals with the Kings and Islanders fell through, trading Patch during UFA season or after (like Skinner), is not the smart time.

In any trade with a player nearing UFA, circumstance plays a huge factor.

Where are coming up with this horseshit "with your logic ... blah,blah,blah". I never said anything of the kind so please stop lying and making things up.

What I am saying is "What the other GMs offer for Pacioretty is what the Habs will get". If it's less now, more later, so be it, but it will still always be what the other GMs offer. Pacioretty's trade value is in their hands, not HF board posters, nor even the Habs. That should not be hard to understand even for you.

 

[BLONG7]

Habs GM is a clown, more at 11.00pm

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Meanwhile, fans of 30 NHL teams report that their GM "gave away the farm" with their offers.....

 

[malcb33]

First mistake, believing any that SOB says

 

[GHJimmy]

Trade him for nothing please! It's too late value is atleast 6round pick lol they devalue him and make him look useless. Sick of these threads about patches

 

[karnige]

That is what happens when the GM announce to the world that he will not re-sign a player.

agreed take whatever you can and move on now. its over for the habs

 

[sansabri]

agreed take whatever you can and move on now. its over for the habs

Yeah, no.

 

[HOPE]

So you must think the organization is responsible for leaking their own negotiations with Pacioretty?

While it's not impossible, what would be gained by doing this?

They've never done this before, this organization is notoriously tight lipped, but all of a sudden, they're revealing everything about Pacioretty?

Hmm...again, maybe you're right, but my own logic tells me that Pacioretty's outspoken and new agent Allen Walsh probably had something to do with that leak.

As for the golf tournament...maybe they aren't attending because they know he'll be traded by then? If so, is that not their prerogative?

you quotes me exacly where i was agreeing with you... i said they never made anything public personnaly!