TSN: Canadiens leaning a lot, maybe too much, on Price

[mustardnight*]

Talent comes into play for sure. But it's not like this team doesn't have any. And it's not like this team isn't capable of having positive possession numbers. We've had inferior teams play better than this one is now.

And goaltending has nothing to do with possession numbers. You can't measure MT by how good his goalie is. You have to look at how the team is playing apart from goaltending to know if you're getting the best out of your lineup.

Same as if say... we had a bad goalie but were playing well. In that case we'd say -nothing's broken so don't fix it. Just get a goalie and all is good.

There's no point in including him when we look at how the team is performing anyway. If you want to know how your team is doing factor out the goaltending, then you get an idea of how the team is doing.

Jack Todd's name should never be spoken of.

As for removing the goalie... that's only to be done when looking at where to fix the team's overall play. If you're going to compare our chances in the playoffs vs any of those other teams then of course you factor goaltending back in.

The team has talent, but the skewed possession numbers probably come with their incredible inconsistency, especially starting games. However, you can't compare the team to a team with a guy like Getzlaf who just eats up the puck for the 20-25 minutes he's on the ice. The team doesn't and can't play a game like that.

 

[MathMan]

There's nothing wrong at all with having Carey Price, but he could be turning a 105-point team into a 115-point team, instead of turning a 95-point team into a 105-point team. I know which one I'd prefer.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The team has talent, but the skewed possession numbers probably come with their incredible inconsistency, especially starting games. However, you can't compare the team to a team with a guy like Getzlaf who just eats up the puck for the 20-25 minutes he's on the ice. The team doesn't and can't play a game like that.

We have PK Subban and Max Paccioretty. Both have shown they can be possession monsters. This is a GOOD roster and there's no reason we can't be at least above average possession wise. And if that happens AND we get crazy goaltending from Carey Price - that sir is a legitimate contender.

I agree we still need a winger but this is a good team.

 

[Harry Wong]

Price is our best guy so its' not unreasonable to build our young guys around him. The supporting cast should improve a little over the next year or two and as it does we probably will become a little less reliant on CP.

 

[mustardnight*]

We have PK Subban and Max Paccioretty. Both have shown they can be possession monsters. This is a GOOD roster and there's no reason we can't be at least above average possession wise. And if that happens AND we get crazy goaltending from Carey Price - that sir is a legitimate contender.

I agree we still need a winger but this is a good team.

I think it's a contender too because I have blind faith but it's unrealistic to expect their possession numbers to be high, it's not the be all end all of winning hockey games. They don't play that way which is more of an indication that they can win otherwise, not that they are a bad team. I never mentioned the roster isn't good, but I don't get why people can't understand that Toews, Kopitar, Malkin, Tavares, Getzlaf, etc. are guys that are simply not on the team. These guys play 1/3rd of the game minimum and are generally all possession monsters day in day out. Carey isn't gonna help our possession numbers.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I think it's a contender too because I have blind faith but it's unrealistic to expect their possession numbers to be high,

No it isn't. This is a good team. I'm not expecting it to be at Chicago Blackhawk levels but we should be better than we are. We're below average and there's just no excuse for that.

it's not the be all end all of winning hockey games.

Possession numbers aren't the be all and end all of winning hockey games but we don't see teams with negative possession numbers winning cups. And most don't even make the playoffs to begin with. So are they the be all and end all? No. But they are important and shouldn't be ignored.

They don't play that way which is more of an indication that they can win otherwise, not that they are a bad team. I never mentioned the roster isn't good, but I don't get why people can't understand that Toews, Kopitar, Malkin, Tavares, Getzlaf, etc. are guys that are simply not on the team. These guys play 1/3rd of the game minimum and are generally all possession monsters day in day out. Carey isn't gonna help our possession numbers.

No, but PK Subban does. Max Paccioretty does. It's not like we don't have some top notch players of our own.

And again, I'm not saying we have to be Blackhawk level great on possession but is it too much to ask to be at least above average? I don't think so.

 

[SaskRinkRat]

The Habs will, unfortunately, be bounced by a superior possession team in the first round (TB or Detroit). If they somehow manage to win the division, they might get by a team like the Rangers, but then it will just be Detroit or TB in the second round.

I hope that encourages a coaching change. Because this team could be monstrous if it played in a possession-savvy system.

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

The Habs will, unfortunately, be bounced by a superior possession team in the first round (TB or Detroit). If they somehow manage to win the division, they might get by a team like the Rangers, but then it will just be Detroit or TB in the second round.

I hope that encourages a coaching change. Because this team could be monstrous if it played in a possession-savvy system.

A lot of people here are fooled into thinking the Habs are a legitimate top-5 team in the League. Fact is, they're a good team, nothing more. Nothing they've done has suggested they're anything more than that. I don't think with the current personal in place, it's reasonable to expect them to be a 115 points team, even with Carey Price's support. They're a 92-98 points team, with a great goalie making them a 100-105 points team.

 

[SaskRinkRat]

A lot of people here are fooled into thinking the Habs are a legitimate top-5 team in the League. Fact is, they're a good team, nothing more. Nothing they've done has suggested they're anything more than that. I don't think with the current personal in place, it's reasonable to expect them to be a 115 points team, even with Carey Price's support. They're a 92-98 points team, with a great goalie making them a 100-105 points team.

Pretty much agreed, though I would like to see this set of personnel applied by a different coach with a different (possession-aware) system. I think the roster is solid. The roster, all other things equal, is a contender. Price is a big part of that, but the skater group is strong enough that with even goaltending it could do damage in a better system.

 

[MathMan]

They're a 92-98 points team, with a great goalie making them a 100-105 points team.

Just so we're clear on what you're saying here: currently in the East, a "92-98 point team" is a non-playoff team. You're actually arguing their roster is below-average in the East.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Talent comes into play for sure. But it's not like this team doesn't have any. And it's not like this team isn't capable of having positive possession numbers. We've had inferior teams play better than this one is now.

And goaltending has nothing to do with possession numbers. You can't measure MT by how good his goalie is. You have to look at how the team is playing apart from goaltending to know if you're getting the best out of your lineup.

Same as if say... we had a bad goalie but were playing well. In that case we'd say -nothing's broken so don't fix it. Just get a goalie and all is good.

There's no point in including him when we look at how the team is performing anyway. If you want to know how your team is doing factor out the goaltending, then you get an idea of how the team is doing.

Jack Todd's name should never be spoken of.

As for removing the goalie... that's only to be done when looking at where to fix the team's overall play. If you're going to compare our chances in the playoffs vs any of those other teams then of course you factor goaltending back in.

You saved me a lot of typing.

Thanks. Lol

 

[mustardnight*]

You saved me a lot of typing.

Thanks. Lol

Yeah it's nice to let me off he hook with answers that were only vaguely relevant to what I said.

 

[Ineverplayedthegame]

No, but PK Subban does. Max Paccioretty does. It's not like we don't have some top notch players of our own.

Yeah that's the big red flag there. Not Subban's possession number, not Pacioretty's possession numbers but the number while both are on the ice together. Subban all alone on a bad team, barely breakeven on possession, I buy it. Same for Pacioretty. But good tactics has those two closer to 60% than to 50% while on the ice at the same time.

 

[habsfanatics*]

Just so we're clear on what you're saying here: currently in the East, a "92-98 point team" is a non-playoff team. You're actually arguing their roster is below-average in the East.

97-98 points all but guarantees a playoff spot, I'm not sure why you tried to spin his post.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

No it isn't. This is a good team. I'm not expecting it to be at Chicago Blackhawk levels but we should be better than we are. We're below average and there's just no excuse for that.

Only when competing for the 100% irrelevant corsi cup

 

[Captain Mountain]

97-98 points all but guarantees a playoff spot, I'm not sure why you tried to spin his post.

Probably that based on current point trends this season in the East, 98 points may be the cut off for making the playoffs? and that 92-97 points may not even be enough to make the playoffs. So without elite goaltending, the Habs are a playoff bubble team, hanging out with the Bruins and Panthers.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Only when competing for the 100% irrelevant corsi cup

Steve Simmons?

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Steve Simmons?

I don't know who that is..

But I'll say Drew Doughty ?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Only when competing for the 100% irrelevant corsi cup

I'll take the Toronto Maple Leafs for 1000 Alex...

 

[Captain Mountain]

I don't know who that is..

But I'll say Drew Doughty ?

TSN based sports commentator. Also said this when a Washington Post article suggested the Leafs were getting lucky last year based on corsi:

 

[Cole Caulifield]

TSN based sports commentator. Also said this when a Washington Post article suggested the Leafs were getting lucky last year based on corsi:

How long will corsi/fenwick/advanced stats people bandy around their ultimate victory over leafs fans ?

I don't care about the maple leafs. If you had asked me if the leafs were a good team I would have told you that they weren't. I never needed any numbers to tell me that. Joke team run terribly. If the leafs are the ultimate victory of advanced stats... then it is not much of one.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

How long will corsi/fenwick/advanced stats people bandy around their ultimate victory over leafs fans ?

I don't care about the maple leafs.

You are certainly behaving like one though.

(Minus the jersey throwing of course.)

And it sure is strange how you can see that the Leafs aren't good but when we get outshot 26 to 4 you sit there and talk about shot quality. Yeah, no difference at all.

 

[Captain Mountain]

How long will corsi/fenwick/advanced stats people bandy around their ultimate victory over leafs fans ?

I don't care about the maple leafs. If you had asked me if the leafs were a good team I would have told you that they weren't. I never needed any numbers to tell me that. Joke team run terribly. If the leafs are the ultimate victory of advanced stats... then it is not much of one.

Calm down. I wasn't insinuating anything. Just a case of deja vu. You're welcome to your opinion (BTW, the Leaf are neither the biggest nor most recent "victory", whatever that means).

 

[Nynja*]

Only when competing for the 100% irrelevant corsi cup

The teams generally competing for the 100% irrelevant corsi cup tend to be competing for the 100% stanley cup in late may and june.

But keep saying its irrelevant.

 

[MathMan]

97-98 points all but guarantees a playoff spot, I'm not sure why you tried to spin his post.

Not this year it doesn't. The 8th-place team is on pace for 98 points this year.

Buffalo's historic craptitude is skewing everyone else.