Canadians in Phoenix

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Mightygoose

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Nov 5, 2012
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Ajax, ON
Be as sarcastic as you want, but these people do exist.

Hockey fan =/= wants to see any NHL game possible

Somewhat true though I know many who will watch IIHF (Mens and Womens) and Olympics (weather NHL players or not) and couldn't give the time of day for the NHL.

Though on the topics of Canadians in Phoenix. It's not a bad strategy in of itself if they're looking at topping up what they have locally.

But long run is to build up the local fan base/corperate pressence as a higher priority since that's the bread and butter for any franchise and it seems like what IA is trying to do, so let's give it some time :)
 

MarkhamNHL

Registered User
Sep 22, 2012
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I'd call it a poor strategy if IA needs to rely on Canadian visitors to keep the team afloat... in fact, there is a growing wave of people avoiding buying tickets for said reasons.

I always tell people, you want another team in Southern Ontario ? stop buying Sabres tickets and force Buffalo to support their own team or face the consequences. If the team moves, it will be to either SO or open up the area for another team. You are just playing into the NHL's hand otherwise. same for Phoenix, I hope Canadians boycott buying tickets. Let them support their own team or move it to greener pastures...
 

Brick City

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May 21, 2012
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Because you aren't paying 500 bucks to see a game? Because they're the best players of your favourite sport?

See above: I've paid to see two teams I have no rooting interest in. That didn't make the hockey any less exciting. I don't see how you can call yourself a hockey fan and then turn down paying AHL prices to watch NHL players.

So anyone who does not follow sports exactly the way you do isn't a fan? Alert Gary Bettman - the league must be made aware of this development :sarcasm:

Again, a lot of people - at least a plurality from my own experience - root for the team more than the sport. I have little interest in watching the best players in the league from two other teams duke it out. My brother, who was a Hartford fan, stopped following the sport altogether once they relocated.

I'm not going to come on here and expect everyone to be like me though. I know a few people who are fans of certain players and will follow them throughout their various teams. I'm a fan of players on my team - once they go, that's the end of my interest in them (outstanding exceptions like Niedermayer aside).

Yeah, tonnes of hockey fans hate seeing the best players in the world.

And more contempt for anything besides how you follow the game. I have two close friends who got into the game because of their NCAA teams. They did not follow nor care about the NHL in the slightest until I starting bringing them to Devils games. I'm sure there are a lot of people like that especially in the northeast where college teams are common.
 

GuelphStormer

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Mar 20, 2012
3,808
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Guelph, ON
I'd call it a poor strategy if IA needs to rely on Canadian visitors to keep the team afloat... in fact, there is a growing wave of people avoiding buying tickets for said reasons.

I always tell people, you want another team in Southern Ontario ? stop buying Sabres tickets and force Buffalo to support their own team or face the consequences. If the team moves, it will be to either SO or open up the area for another team. You are just playing into the NHL's hand otherwise. same for Phoenix, I hope Canadians boycott buying tickets. Let them support their own team or move it to greener pastures...

i dont think its at all unreasonable for IA to want to market the product to people in the area already familiar with it. that would be kinda like saying someone who opens an italian bakery shouldn't make an effort to sell bread to italian immigrants. personally, if i were IA, i'd go out of my way to attract snowbirds.
 

Brick City

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May 21, 2012
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i dont think its at all unreasonable for IA to want to market the product to people in the area already familiar with it. that would be kinda like saying someone who opens an italian bakery shouldn't make an effort to sell bread to italian immigrants. personally, if i were IA, i'd go out of my way to attract snowbirds.

I think where this analogy fails is that immigrants come to this country and they (or more likely their descendants) eventually assimilate. Snowbirds are generally retirees who are set in their ways and have longstanding loyalties to home.

On that note, does the 'snowbirds' term generally apply to people who permanently relocate to the south or to those who spend the winter there (a lot of retirees around here only go to Florida for the winter)?

I agree with your overall point though - they might as well try to market to the snowbirds. Just would not be wise to bet too many chips on it.
 

Doan Jidion*

Guest
You haven't heard? The Southern Strategy failed!

And there's also plenty of material on this thread's subject in the thread that's 95% less Phoenix (which is presumably why no one looked there before creating its own thread, right? :) )

People are discussing it because there are serious issues with this team. Why can't they be allowed to discuss it? because it hurts your feels? This entire message board can't be the Coyotes fans' safe space.
 

masa2009

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May 11, 2011
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Maybe the transplant Canucks are already at the rink.
If you look at Florida, a tepid team playing out of a notoriously apathetic market (even downtown Miami struggled to sell out LeBron James' fist home game), sure their tickets are cheap but theys till draw somewhat okay considering the location and their pitiful franchise.
 

colchar

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Apr 26, 2012
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Sure 40 minutes is a long drive, but to see an NHL hockey game, that's nothing!

If you think 40 minutes is a long drive you've obviously never been to Canada.


Jobing.com is nicer than most of if not all of the arenas in Canada...


And you've been to all the Canadian rinks in order to compare them have you?


Basically, what is holding the Canadians living in and around the Valley from going to see Coyotes hockey games...


Maybe they think the team sucks and have no connection to it? They will likely go see games when their Canadian team is in town but that's it.
 

awfulwaffle

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Jun 20, 2011
11,841
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Dallas, TX
There very well may be Canadians that don't go to hoceky games here. But I can admit, when Edmonton is in town, there is quite a bit of Oilers fans at Jobing.com. I honestly couldn't care less what fan is in the arena, as long as people are sitting in the seats. Does it bug me that people only show up when their team is in town? Sure it does, but if you have no real connection to the home team, it's going to be a lot harder to go to a game and enjoy your time there. With Detroit moving to the Eastern Conference, I would like to see some of those fans try to root for the Coyotes as their western team, same goes with any other fan of an Eastern team that lives in Phoenix now. Hockey tickets are still an investment in this economy, that a lot of people still can't afford. Phoenix is rebounding, but it is going to take time for that to happen.
 

barneyg

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Apr 22, 2007
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I'll play along despite your faulty premise...

I've read online around 50-90 thousand Canadians live in Arizona during the winter or year round, and assume a big chunk of them end up in Phoenix.

Let's assume for a moment that those 50,000-90,000 Canadians are "just like normal Canadians", even though they probably aren't.

Here's a list of Canadian census areas with a population around 90,000: Kamloops, Nanaimo, Fredericton, Belleville, St-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Chilliwack, Red Deer, Sarnia, Drummondville, Prince George.

Which of these Canadian cities could support an NHL team?

My point is stupid but it's still the answer to your question -- IA does not cater to Canadian snowbirds because they are not the key to the Coyotes' financial success. They don't even begin to make a dent in the bottom line. If the Coyotes ever become a success, they need Americans to fill the arena.
 

Wolf357

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Jul 16, 2011
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A retired 60 year old farmer that sold his land in Saskatchewan for his new Motorhome is probably happy sitting in his lazyboy and watching the Leafs or Canadiens on Satellite TV in HD on a 65 inch Big screen than driving to Glendale..
 

MarkGio

Registered User
Nov 6, 2010
12,533
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I'll play along despite your faulty premise...



Let's assume for a moment that those 50,000-90,000 Canadians are "just like normal Canadians", even though they probably aren't.

Here's a list of Canadian census areas with a population around 90,000: Kamloops, Nanaimo, Fredericton, Belleville, St-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Chilliwack, Red Deer, Sarnia, Drummondville, Prince George.

Which of these Canadian cities could support an NHL team?

My point is stupid but it's still the answer to your question -- IA does not cater to Canadian snowbirds because they are not the key to the Coyotes' financial success. They don't even begin to make a dent in the bottom line. If the Coyotes ever become a success, they need Americans to fill the arena.

Yes, well put.

Its not a viable solution. They aren't normal Canadians nor are they big hockey fans. When I go to hockey games, I see lots of young people, middle aged people, and fewer seniors. Hockey games are loud, intense, aired late at night, and an investment in terms of travel parking and walking. Does that sound like it would draw the same crowd of people who want to enjoy quiet golf games?
 

GuelphStormer

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Mar 20, 2012
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Guelph, ON
A retired 60 year old farmer that sold his land in Saskatchewan for his new Motorhome is probably happy sitting in his lazyboy and watching the Leafs or Canadiens on Satellite TV in HD on a 65 inch Big screen than driving to Glendale..
but if the phoenix coyotes held some sort of promotional night to attract that fat farmer away from his lazyboy, he might be tempted to go. worth a shot, non? i mean, its not like he would need the puck to be highlighted or have offside explained to him to enjoy the product on the ice.

besides, wasn't the franchise being dumped in phoenix in the first place because of the snowbirds? personally, i have no problem with IA wanting to (sub)target snowbirds. it makes perfect sense to me, notwithstanding your very valid suggestion that not all snowbirds are alike and/or interested in getting up off the lazyboy. :)
 

Doan Jidion*

Guest
The franchise was dumped in Phoenix because Minneapolis fell through and they couldn't stay in Winnipeg.
 

Howler Scores

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Mar 13, 2011
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Maricopa County
A ton live in th East Valley. Every 3rd car seems to have an Alberta plate when I am driving to work. But that also means that they have the same problem driving West in traffic. During the weekends though, I feel the beer lines take forever while they are confused about their ids ;)
 

cheswick

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Mar 17, 2010
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South Kildonan
Peronally feel the "lack of ownership" issue was a complete red herring in terms of poor attendance. I'm guessing the majority of casual fans who went to games were probably oblivous to the whole thing. I think less people showed up during the NHL ownership simply because of less marketing, not because peopel were staying away cause of uncertainty.

Fact is that the Coyotes traditionally draw horribly in teh early part of the season. They draw better after Christmas when there are more snow birds around. Simple ownership change was never going to be able to suddenly fill the buildign which was never full before.

I don't think anyone here is surprised that the Coyotes are drawing so poorly. One would assume the ownership group wouldn't be surprised either. Can they turn it around? I haven't the slightest clue, but a month into the season is certainly too early to be judging it.

After a couple of years if things are still this dire, I htink it would be safe to assume the team would be gone after 3 more.
 

Shawa666

Registered User
May 25, 2010
1,602
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Québec, Qc, Ca
I think where this analogy fails is that immigrants come to this country and they (or more likely their descendants) eventually assimilate. Snowbirds are generally retirees who are set in their ways and have longstanding loyalties to home.

On that note, does the 'snowbirds' term generally apply to people who permanently relocate to the south or to those who spend the winter there (a lot of retirees around here only go to Florida for the winter)?

I agree with your overall point though - they might as well try to market to the snowbirds. Just would not be wise to bet too many chips on it.

If one has been a fan of a team for 50 more years, That status will likely only change with his death.
 

DannoManno*

Guest
I get the lifelong fan thing and people aren't going to instantly become coyotes fans because they live in Phoenix for half the year.

But comparing someone moving from Calgary/Edmonton to Toronto and automatically becoming a leafs fan... With someone spending half their year year in Phoenix and having Phoenix as their number 2 team, are completely different.

Becoming a leafs fan would be sacrilege, but cheering for the home team while you call Phoenix your home (except when the Flames/Oilers are in town) is a perfectly reasonable expectation. My dad winters in Phoenix and grew up a Bruins fan... I'd say he's an even bigger Coyotes fan now, and is a huge fan of Keith Yandle (just bought a jersey).

If you're going to live in Phoenix for half the year... Is it that hard to support the team?

Saying Canadian fans should boycott the team (like one poster suggested earlier) is absolutely ridiculous.

Im going to visit my parents In Phoenix for about a month this winter... I'm a ducks fan, but I plan on seeing multiple games at Jobing.com after the Ducks play there on Nov 23, and am really looking forward to seeing the Blackhawks play there Nov 30th. Haven't decided which other games I'll be seeing yet, but I'm sure ill see around 4 or 5 games... And I'm only going to be there for a month. When tickets are so cheap, I'd feel foolish not saying a game there while a have a chance... Whether they play the ducks or not. Might even buy a Yotes jersey for the games after the ducks game ;)
 

Dirty Old Man

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Jan 29, 2008
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People are discussing it because there are serious issues with this team. Why can't they be allowed to discuss it? because it hurts your feels? This entire message board can't be the Coyotes fans' safe space.

The franchise was dumped in Phoenix because Minneapolis fell through and they couldn't stay in Winnipeg.

Seems I might not be the one with my feelings hurt, responding to that post thusly?

Fact is that the Coyotes traditionally draw horribly in teh early part of the season. They draw better after Christmas when there are more snow birds around. Simple ownership change was never going to be able to suddenly fill the buildign which was never full before.

I don't think anyone here is surprised that the Coyotes are drawing so poorly. One would assume the ownership group wouldn't be surprised either. Can they turn it around? I haven't the slightest clue, but a month into the season is certainly too early to be judging it.
...and planning on spending a total of 9 years of your life harping on it seems a foolish way to spend your life, but knock yourselves out if you want. If they leave after 22 years, it will be sad for those of us who cared, but I'll be in my mid 50s by then and thankful I got the chance.
Saying Canadian fans should boycott the team (like one poster suggested earlier) is absolutely ridiculous.
Bingo. "I'm here in Phoenix, and I'd go to an NHL game, but I'm not gonna because maybe if I don't they'll move to Canada"...seems pretty silly.
 

ucanthanzalthetruth

#CatsAreCooked
Jul 13, 2013
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People are discussing it because there are serious issues with this team. Why can't they be allowed to discuss it? because it hurts your feels? This entire message board can't be the Coyotes fans' safe space.

Maybe you missed it, but the BOH was almost exclusively about ripping the Coyotes the past 4 years. When Phoenix got that agreement to stay in Arizona for 5 more years, it was agreed upon that these boards would take a break off of discussing every little attendance nuance with the Coyotes, as it wasn't productive, since they are guaranteed to be here for 5 more years. I think the real story here should be their play as of late :amazed:
 

OthmarAmmann

Omnishambles
Jul 7, 2010
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NYC
Well about 1 in 4 home games will be against the Flames, Oilers, Canucks, or Jets. That should help attendance.

Regardless, the risk of poor attendance has been shifted to the city. This could be a real PR issue for both the Coyotes and the NHL. If the city's finances deteriorate further - and the revenue from the Coyotes is critical to preventing that happening - there will have to be increasingly difficult conversations at the city council each spring during the budget process. Unfortunately this will coincide with the playoffs.

Bloomberg and WSJ have both picked up the story nationally in the past and if the situation gets worse it could become more of a national story (a la Jefferson county, Harrisburg, Stockton, etc). The city entered into the agreement against the advice of city staff and ratings agencies, so it could turn real ugly if the Coyotes don't deliver the projected revenue. It all comes to a head in the fifth year when the temporary sales tax is set to disappear, but at that point they could be tens of millions in the hole.

Of course it's possible the NHL doesn't care if they get a bunch of bad publicity. It seems that way at any rate.
 

The Pouzar

Registered User
May 6, 2009
164
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The Kop
I think this is a non-issue at this time of the year. Most snowbirds I know here in Calgary don't head down until November. Where there is an issue is that the league isn't scheduling the western Canadian and other northern teams more after Christmas. The fact that the Oilers and Flames will have played 2 of their 3 games at the Job by the 7th of January is more of an issue( I realize that the Olympic break has screwed this up as well.). If you want to sell to snowbirds or vacationing golfers these teams need to be scheduled after the middle of January. This can't be a long term plan but it needs to be considered to help generate extra revenue via premium game prices etc.
 

enarwpg

Registered User
Jun 21, 2011
706
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Winnipeg
I know peps that spend a lot of time ( retired ) down there. The reason they are there is to get away from anything to do with snow, ice ( unless its in your drink ), and cold. They are not and never will be Coyotes fans, yet they will attend a game when Detroit is in town.

Why is this so hard for people in Glendale / Phoenix, the new owners , or the NHL, to understand?

This is no different than expecting someone living in western Canada, who all of the sudden gets transferred to Toronto because of their job, to become a Leafs fan when they have spent their entire lives laughing at and hating the Leafs. It's not going to happen!

I sit beside two die-hard fans of the home team. Jets fans all they way. Except when Montreal comes to town. Then the Hab jerseys come out and they are cheering for the Jets to lose. Two games from now, I will be sitting there cheering for the Jets, while my son will be sitting beside me fully decked out in Detroit gear.

People just won't give up their loyalties.

I'm on the waiting list for Jets ST's and have Jets TV. If I were spending months in the Phoenix area (or anywhere else) I'd get a slingbox and be able to watch all Jets games and whatever other programming options I have with Shaw. I wonder if Canadian snowbirds who love hockey and have their own [insert team name here] TV do the same.

..and for those who don't know what slingbox is crick here ...there has to be at one person that doesn't :sarcasm:
 
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